flashback

"Dave H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

news.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_Espada_05

Quoted message said:

Dave

Too bad they didn't exhibit the model with the funky fork.
In a single tube in line with the tire, the fork followed
the trailing edge of the front wheel down from the headset
to the level of the wheel axle. The fork blades then went
horizontally forward to attach the front wheel.

Quite ingenious way to minimize frontal area of the fork.

Dave H said:

ws.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_Espada_05

More like an icon of poor taste.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave H said:

news.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_Espada_05

Quoted message said:

More like an icon of poor taste.

I suppose you are into the "double triangle" round tube
method of making bikes? Dave

Dave H said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave H wrote:

ws.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_Espada_05

Quoted message said:

More like an icon of poor taste.

I suppose you are into the "double triangle" round tube
method of making bikes?

Yes, I think a good modern road bike is a beautiful thing.
But it's not the Espada's shape that offends my eye as much
as the paint job, and particularly the "Miguel Indurain"
typeset which totally belies Indurain's mellowness and
modesty. I can't help thinking of the excessive "sport
stripes" and huge badges that came on cars from the late
'80s and early '90s.

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
background of:

news.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri blue
- users.htcomp.netACI95 35.jpgOpen ↗
(not Colinelli's 'mixte' -
users.htcomp.netWITT69.jpgOpen ↗) is
still one of my favorites.

Mike G. -

--------------------------------------------------------
----------
Mike Gladu, Cycling Photojournalist, Infinite HangTime
Photography Honda '82 CB900F, '84 XR200R,
'70/'71/'80/'81/'82/'83 C70 Passport Honda '86 VT500C, '97
Dream 50, Husqvarna '84 510TE, BMW '74 R60/5 Passport/C70
info: velodrome.comHondaC70.htmlOpen ↗
==================================================================

"Mike Gladu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT
bike in the background of:

news.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

Quoted message said:

BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri
blue -
users.htcomp.netACI95 35.jpgOpen ↗
(not Colinelli's 'mixte' -
users.htcomp.netWITT69.jpgOpen ↗)
is still one of my favorites.

Mike G.

Maybe and I am not TOTALLY sure, but I think those "funny
bikes" were all built by Moser himself, I know his hour
record bike was. Maybe the display in the background if of
Moser when he actually roide Pinarellos?
damonrinard.commoser84.jpgOpen ↗

Dave

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Mike Gladu) said:

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT
bike in the background of:

ws.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri
blue -
users.htcomp.netACI95 35.jpgOpen ↗

Hey, their feet are all out of synch - no wonder they
only got a fourth out of it (heh). You've gotta give
Pinerello credit for trying some innovative designs to
improve aerodynamics, even though the designs aren't
always the most pleasing aesthetically.

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Mike Gladu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT
bike in the background of:

news.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29".
Moser is a pretty tall guy and there is no seatpost
extending out from the frame and the seat isn't positioned
at the top of the arc for the wheel. The front wheel is a
26". You can see in the picture that the rear is
considerably larger. Possibly 39".

I tried to Google for an image if the Pinarello Epee with
the wild fork, but only came up with a cyclingnews.com text
reference.

"Mike Gladu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri
blue -
users.htcomp.netACI95 35.jpgOpen ↗
is still one of my favorites.

cycle24.de471.htmlOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Carl Sundquist said:

"Mike Gladu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT
bike in the background of:

ws.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29".
Moser is a pretty tall guy and there is no seatpost
extending out from the frame and the seat isn't positioned
at the top of the arc for the wheel. The front wheel is a
26". You can see in the picture that the rear is
considerably larger. Possibly 39".

Did he actually set the record on that bike? Every
picture I've seen of him that is described as being of
the record run shows a bike with a smaller back wheel. I
have seen a picture of him on a bike that I remember
looks a lot like the one you're describing (the one in
the background of the picture). On this chart, it lists
the equipment used as being "Ambrosio discs, 66/71cm",
which is 26" and about 28". <bikecult.combikOpen ↗
ecultbook/sports_recordsHour.html>

Interesting to note the crank lengths used: Moser, Merckx
and Obree on 175s, Boardman on 170s, Rominger on 172.5s
and Indurain on 190s!

Here's some shots from the (or one of the) record run:
<http://ida.physik.uni-siegen.de/menn/moser.htm>

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29".
Moser is a

pretty

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tall guy and there is no seatpost extending out from the
frame and the

seat

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

isn't positioned at the top of the arc for the wheel.
The front wheel is

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

26". You can see in the picture that the rear is
considerably larger. Possibly 39".

Did he actually set the record on that bike? Every
picture I've seen of him that is described as being of
the record run shows a bike with a smaller back wheel.
I have seen a picture of him on a bike that I remember
looks a lot like the one you're describing (the one in
the background of the picture). On this chart, it lists
the equipment used as being

"Ambrosio

Quoted message said:

discs, 66/71cm", which is 26" and about 28". <--Open ↗
bikecult.com/bikecultbook/sports_recordsHour.html>

Interesting to note the crank lengths used: Moser,
Merckx and Obree on 175s, Boardman on 170s, Rominger on
172.5s and Indurain on 190s!

Here's some shots from the (or one of the) record run:
<http://ida.physik.uni-siegen.de/menn/moser.htm>

About the same time the UCI decided to do away with the
pro/amateur classification, they also did away with numerous
aspects of UCI recognized world records. There were indoor,
outdoor, high altitude and low altitude records for each
distance. There were even standing and flying start records
for many distances, too. We're talking 200M, 500M, 1000M,
4000M, 5000M,
10.000M, 20.000M and the hour. Then double all those records
for the pro/amateur categories. (Substitute 2000M for
junior women and 3000M for women and junior men for the
4000M & 5000M records for men). Quantitatively, it was
almost as bad as US national champion jerseys.

Unfortunately for the record keepers, about the time the UCI
consolidated or eliminated the recognition of many records,
along came Masters and their age groups to fill up the
record books again.

Moser's Big Wheel bike was built for the indoor record. He
rode it in Stuttgart (1988, I believe), but I don't recall
how he fared.

The pictures on the website are from his original record(s)
in Mexico City, January 1984.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Carl Sundquist said:

About the same time the UCI decided to do away with the
pro/amateur classification, they also did away with
numerous aspects of UCI recognized world records. There
were indoor, outdoor, high altitude and low altitude
records for each distance. There were even standing and
flying start records for many distances, too. We're
talking 200M, 500M, 1000M, 4000M, 5000M,
10.000M, 20.000M and the hour. Then double all those
records for the pro/amateur categories. (Substitute
2000M for junior women and 3000M for women and junior
men for the 4000M & 5000M records for men).
Quantitatively, it was almost as bad as US national
champion jerseys.

Unfortunately for the record keepers, about the time the
UCI consolidated or eliminated the recognition of many
records, along came Masters and their age groups to fill
up the record books again.

Moser's Big Wheel bike was built for the indoor record. He
rode it in Stuttgart (1988, I believe), but I don't recall
how he fared.

The pictures on the website are from his original
record(s) in Mexico City, January 1984.

You're right, I had forgotten about the other records
that those guys tried for. I'd assumed it was for his
original Mexico City Hour record rides.

One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were
obviously custom made. I wonder who made them and how
many they made. Can't have been cheap...

Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters
Championships must be thrilled: they can probably show a
profit for the entire year just from the Masters road and
track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
jersey sales.

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:YOURhoward->

Quoted message said:

Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships
must be
thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire
year just from

the

Quoted message said:

Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in
the "participant" jersey sales.

If you are talking about anyone buying a Masters World
Championship Jersey, that is something that Voler has never
released to the general public, unlike the makers of the
Elite Rainbow jersey.

Dave

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were
obviously
custom made. I wonder who made them and how many they made.
Can't have

been

Quoted message said:

cheap...

Back in the 70's, there were probably well in excess of 25
different manufacturers of tubulars worldwide, some large
like Clement, some very small. I wouldn't be surprised if
some bike shops in France and Italy manufactured their own
tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not that
uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even
'specialists' that followed the sixes (back in the days when
real racers used shellac as the adhesive) and replaced the
tread on the old casing on tires as they wore down.

As long as the manufacturer had a drum the appropriate size,
building a tire to a given diameter was no big deal.

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were
obviously
custom made. I wonder who made them and how many they made.
Can't have

been

Quoted message said:

cheap...

Handmade sewups were common back then and I don't think it
would be much trouble to create some one-off sizes or a
small run of oddball sizes for the top pros and record
attempts. It is not as if they use molds or anything that
locks them in to a particular size.

Quoted message said:

Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships
must be
thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire
year just from

the

Quoted message said:

Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in
the "participant" jersey sales.

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave H said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:YOURhoward->

Quoted message said:

Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters
Championships must be
thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire
year just from

the

Quoted message said:

Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in
the "participant" jersey sales.

If you are talking about anyone buying a Masters World
Championship Jersey, that is something that Voler has
never released to the general public, unlike the makers of
the Elite Rainbow jersey.

Dave

No, it was just a little crack at the number of Master's
categories. Since there's a lot of categories, there's
going to be a lot of jerseys to be given to the winners,
and the UCI has to buy those jerseys. I rode by three
"Elite World Champions" yesterday (heh).

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Carl Sundquist said:

small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in
France and Italy manufactured their own tires. Needless to
say, handmade tires were not that uncommon. From what I've
heard, there were even 'specialists' that followed

Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand
rather than in Italy. But this is progress.

"Stewart Fleming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in
France and Italy manufactured their own tires. Needless
to say, handmade tires were not

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even
'specialists' that

followed

Quoted message said:

Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand
rather than in Italy. But this is progress.

Silk's better in Thailand Dave

"Stewart Fleming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in
France and Italy manufactured their own tires. Needless
to say, handmade tires were not

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even
'specialists' that

followed

Quoted message said:

Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand
rather than in Italy.

I strongly suspect that the same factory in Thailand is
producing tubulars for Vittoria, Clement, and numerous
'house' brands, such as Oschner.