Triathlon Bike?

I'm with you, a good frame 14 yrs ago is still a good frame (although they do wear out eventually). Assuming you have it set up for triathlon competition (aero bar, etc.) I doubt you'd notice a big difference in performance.

Best way to find out - find a LBS with a tri bike that you can take out for a longish test ride.

Well, it depends on how much motor you got.

Last year a guy in his mid 40's showed up for a club ride on a ancient torelli bike. He wasn't the fastest guy there, but many people saw his rear cassette, and then that's all they saw as he rode away.

As far as tri bikes go, aerodynamics is one place they have made big improvements. Post a photo of your bike and a little more detail on your components, you may get some better opinions.

Good motor, just needs a rehaul! I have attached a photo. The bike has the Shimano 105 group that came with it. I got the weigth down to about 20 lbs with the new fork and wheels. I should be able to net another 5 with the motor over haul! I have some old Time Sport pedals on there. I have been thinking about some new pedals and shoes.

You have anything closer up?

Those look like mavic Ksyriums. Also what kind of tires? Your losing a lot of power in the aero position because your too far back on your bb. Also take the spacers out between the headset and the stem and get yourself lower in the front.

That is very upright for a TT bike.

That bike is probably costing you at least five minutes per 20 miles. This a generous estimate, and it's probably why people are laughing.

Matt, thanks for the feedback. I'll take some close up pictures. I believe they are the wheels you mention. I'm not real good at remembering names, so I'll check on that and the tires. What do you mean by "too far back on you BB"? 5 minutes over 20 is way too much to not consider an upgrade. Maybe it is time. I do the majority of my riding solo as it is.

bb=bottom bracket. The tip of your saddle should be lined up with the crank bolt. Ksyriums are good for road riding where you can draft etc, but if your out in front the whole time which is how most triathalons are set up, your losing a lot of speed in aerodynamics.

Optimum aero position is your chest parallel to the ground. Put your bike on the stationary, on a surface you know to be level, get in the aero tuck position, and have your wife take a picture of you. Remember to prop up the front tire with a 2x4 or phone book to make the bike level. If the top of your knees hit your elbows while your in the aero position, move the saddle back a smudge until they do not hit.

Switching to some Mavic Cosmic Carbon SSC or some Zipp 404's and you'll pick up I would guess 2mph. (Providing you can pedal over 20mph average that is on the flats).

It would not be uncommon for the guy next to you in the transition area, to have spent $5k on a bike. If everyone has the same power output of each other within 1%, the difference in winning or losing will come in your component selection.

I don't mean to criticize, as i'm not a time trial expert, but I can tell you having been to triathlons and duathlons and seen many sites on the web regarding these subjects, your bike is set up way wrong.

Wow, beware of that well-meaning advice.

You may be in a situation where 'you can't get there from here.'

A critical factor is that your aero position should not differ much from your road position, with the exception that you are rotated forward around your feet. Simply lowering your bars will 'bend' you over more, closing your hip angle making it hard to breathe and to develop power. Sliding the saddle back if your elbows hit your knees horrible advice that further closes your hip angle. You need the exact opposite... your saddle needs to go way farther forward (along with your bars, so long as you already have a ~90* angle at the shoulder/upper arm. Yikes.

No wheels or set up are going to add 2mph to your speed unless you are really poorly fit now.

Now, what you likely need is a steeper seat tube so your saddle is more forward. That's the 'you can't get there from here' part. Will you be faster? Probably. More comfy? Probably.

Search this site for lots of other discussion on the aero position, tri bikes, etc.

5 min over 20 miles seems a bit optimistic...that's almost 10%. I agree you are likely to be limited by the geometry of your frame and not get to a correct position -- with your seat moved forward over you BB, even with your stem lowered, you may not be able to comfortably get your arms and shoulders forward enough that you back isn't hunched over (i.e. your top tube/steerer just don't have the right geometry to get into a perfect tri form).

I'd do what you can to optimize your aero position and move forward over the BB if you are going to stay w/your current frame. Then I'd demo some tri frames to see whether the advantage they afford is worth spending the $$. My guess is it won't be all of 5 min over 20 mi, but who knows?

Report back!!! I'm interested in what you find.

Mavic Ksyriums are good for going uphill as they are stiff as steel. They are also about as aerodynamic as a trash can. If you had the ability to have a SRM power crank and different sets of wheels to test with you would see what I am talking about.

When he says seat tube, he actually means seat post. A Thomson setback post might fit your bike depending on how big your post diameter is. You can turn them around and make them a 'set forward' post. However, how much can you push your seat forward on the rails now?

Hey, what if this person does uphill time trials only...then we are both wrong 🙂

BTW, the statement about hitting your knees on your elbows only implied after he lowered his bars and moved his seat as far forward as it would go on the rails. I doubt he would even hit nor would he be forward enough. Your statement about aero position vs. road positon should be equal is wrong. Unless your talking about leg position while in those two positions.

Turning a road frame into a tri frame involves a lot of component swapping, possibly shorter zero angle stems, set back posts, etc.

Mattp -- Well, I at least learned something here. I didn't realize you could use a setback seatpost to be a setforward! I figured the head couldn't swivel enough. He should definitely look into that idea since it's so cheap!

I stand by what I said re: road v. aero position. Unless you are a mad monster of TT with a severly aggressive position, you will likely be best off keeping the hip angle (aka thigh to trunk) constant. This means just rotating forward, where your feet are the point around which you rotate.

Ksyriums are THAT non-aero??? Odd, because I see a lot of them in TTs and triathlons. Then again, I don't understand why people use them in such huge numbers on the road either, given their price. Seems like bad value, and that sales are high purely because of how sexy they look. Sub-optimal decisions are rampant!

Ksyriums especially the SSC SL version is very popular not only because it's sexy. It's very low rotational weight for a clincher (1500gm/set) and it's also very very stiff. Possibly the stiffest wheelset on the market today. Unfortunately, if I can give you a better example, is about as aero as the mavic open pro rims.

If you havn't rode the SSC SL's, I urge you to stop at a bike store and see if they have a 'demo' pair available. Some do this regularly, some will cough up there dinner laughing at you. You will be surprised at how much they respond, especially on a climb.
Team Saeco rode the SSC SL to victory in this years Giro. They must have just now caught up, as that is the same wheel Lance rode to victory on the Alp d'Huez in 2001.

Each triathelete is there own. If they can only put out enough watts to sustain a 20mph average, then they may choose the Kysrium SSC's if the course has a climb or two. They are probably saving 5 seconds per 500 meters of climbing if the gradient is 10% when you are out of the saddle. Every course I have seen always has a climb. 🙂 However the one's that put in the 23-24mph averages never seem to ride Kysriums. They are the guys with the unlimited checkbook, zipp 909's tubular and full dura ace 10spd. Insane 🙂

I don't think I've ever ridden them. Three of my friends bought them in the last year, and admit that they can't feel a difference. All three rode MA3, Open Pro, etc wheels before. They aren't TdF riders, but they are definitely fit recreational riders.

Also remember that radically modifying your position on the bike is not the best way to go fast. Changes in body position should be made in small increments so the body had time to adapt. It can take a while to adapt to an efficient aero position. Everyone's body is different and reacts differently to an aero position (example..Lance vs Jan). Some people have curved backs, some straight. I would say find someone in your area (a good shop, triathlete, etc) who can help you refine your positon. A new frame may be in order for optimum positioning, or you may be able to get by with your current setup and a few tweaks. Depends on what you want. Ultimate speed can come at a cost. How much do you want to spend.

Thanks guys, all of you. I have learned a lot from this thread and the research I did at your suggestions. I have a pretty good feel for what I need to do to my bike to get in a better areo position. I will do that and see how it feels. That will not be a major change since I can't do much with the frame geometry. I'll have my wife take pictures before and after to see what I have achieved. I did find a true tri shop not to far away. They said come on over and will show me what's available. It would be neat to get on a true tri bike and take it for a spin to see how it compares. That's the plan. I forgot to check my wheels and tires. I'll do that tonight and post back.

I converted my Cervelo over to the aero position yesterday for a TT on Saturday. Hadn't ridden aero since February, I think. Felt great! But also very foreign for awhile. No kidding that changes should be made gradually -- there's little doubting that the forward position hits the quads differently than a road position. My legs felt low on power, and my quads were burning far more than usual. I shoulda done some aero training sooner than 3 days before the event. Whoops.

Anyway, point being that you won't like an aggressive position immediately. Give it time. Lower your bars slowly over time, and move your saddle forward in equally slow increments. Fiddle with it and find what's comfy and efficient over time.

Good advice. I only have about 1/2 inch I can move on the saddle. Turning the seat tube doesn't work! I'll take out one spacer on the fork tube at a time.

If that is the case Aztec you might be faster just converting back to the road position and just ride in the drops when you can.

BartJ - upon removing one spacer at a time, put the one you took out on top of your stem so you still put your screw in.

Ahh, I was wondering about the left over tube space. Thanks for the tip. I am not going to go crazy. I plan to take a tri bike or two for a spin this weekend. Who knows I may end up getting another bike! The idea of leaving my current bike with its setup (maybe a few adjustments) for group rides and getting another TT bike seems to make sense. I could ease in the miles on the TT bike. Best of both worlds?

Yep. As I've now committed to doing some triathlons, including at least one half-IM in Hawaii next season, I will add a dedicated TT bike to my stable. That will make 1 comfortable set up for lon road rides, 1 aggressive set up for interval days and criteriums, and 1 for TTs.