turning right: advice please

On 15/6/04 11:12 am, in article [email hidden],

audrey said:

I'd appreciate some advice from more experienced cyclists.
Situation is this:

I'm at the head of a line of traffic [1] in the 'right
turn only' lane, waiting at the traffic lights to turn
right. I'm positioned in the centre of the lane. Lights go
green, I move forward and wait for suitable gap in on-
coming traffic. This is a busy road, so it can take a
while. Gap appears, I turn right, car behind me sets off
at the same time and overtakes me as we both turn right.
Car zooms past me on the right.

Quoted message said:

What, if anything, can I do to stop cars overtaking me
like this on right turns?

Move about three quarters of the way across the lane, enough
to stop the car passing on the right or the left.

Wait for the gap a bit further back so you are turning into
the road on the right hand edge of the turning circle. This
leaves the car little room to overtake.

This means not moving forward when the lights go green (or
just a bike length or so.) Basically you cut the corner a
bit tighter..

..d

audrey said:

What, if anything, can I do to stop cars overtaking me
like this on right turns?

I don't find that a problem on most roads as there's usually
enough overtaking room, but follow David's excllent advice
for narrower roads (or whenever it bothers you).

~PB

Yes, It is all about road position.
I was taught this when training for my motorbike license. You need to maintain your road position to prevent being overtaken which means riding in the centre of the lane.
This may upset/delay others but it will stop you being squeezed off the road. I do it now on a cycle when I'm approaching any difficult manoevres. I feel safer and I'm ready with an appreciative wave or death stare as appropriate to anybody effected.

==========================
Engerlund Engerlund we wuz robbed.

David Martin said:

On 15/6/04 11:12 am, in article
[email hidden], "audrey"

Quoted message said:

What, if anything, can I do to stop cars overtaking me
like this on right turns?

Move about three quarters of the way across the lane,
enough to stop the car passing on the right or the left.

Wait for the gap a bit further back so you are turning into
the road on the right hand edge of the turning circle. This
leaves the car little room to overtake.

This means not moving forward when the lights go green (or
just a bike length or so.) Basically you cut the corner a
bit tighter..

thanks for the advice, David. I think I have been going too
far forward, and will try moving forward less, as well as
the other things you suggest. Thanks

and, going OT now, notes email addy and waves to Nice Man
from the Ancestral Homelands - actually my parents left
Dundee before I was born, but we visited so often and they
talked about it so much, it feels like 'home' even though
I've never lived there.

Audrey

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

Pete Biggs said:

audrey said:

What, if anything, can I do to stop cars overtaking me
like this on right turns?

I don't find that a problem on most roads as there's
usually enough overtaking room, but follow David's excllent
advice for narrower roads (or whenever it bothers you).

the trouble with this particular junction is the cars
accelerate hard to get past, so they are not stuck behind a
bike on the narrow access road for the few seconds it would
take them to get into the car park. It also bothers me On
Principle, I think, because over taking at a junction is A
Bad Thing.

A

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

audrey said:

the trouble with this particular junction is the cars
accelerate hard to get past, so they are not stuck behind
a bike on the narrow access road for the few seconds it
would take them to get into the car park. It also bothers
me On Principle, I think, because over taking at a
junction is A Bad Thing.

I agree it's Bad, and dodgy overtaking of all sorts is
happening more and more as the acceleration performance of
average cars increases to ridiculous levels. The drivers
must be doing their brains in with all the G force!

~PB

On 15/6/04 11:56 am, in article [email hidden],

audrey said:

and, going OT now, notes email addy and waves to Nice Man
from the Ancestral Homelands - actually my parents left
Dundee before I was born, but we visited so often and they
talked about it so much, it feels like 'home' even though
I've never lived there.

Actually I'm from sarf of the river, and not from Scotland
at all though I'm one of the few people here who moved
south on immigrating.. (a brief stay in places north and
cold) But it is a nice place and well worth visiting on a
cycling tour. The natives are friendly and to quote a
recent advertisement the spring water comes in still,
sparkling, and brown with a head. (It also doesn't rain
much here at all..)

regards

..d

audrey said:

I'm at the head of a line of traffic [1] in the 'right
turn only' lane, waiting at the traffic lights to turn
right. I'm positioned in the centre of the lane. Lights go
green, I move forward and wait for suitable gap in on-
coming traffic. This is a busy road, so it can take a
while. Gap appears, I turn right, car behind me sets off
at the same time and overtakes me as we both turn right.
Car zooms past me on the right.

Wot the others said - move right to prevent it. Also buy an
Air Zound. It is very good at making dozy cagers realise
they have done something stupid. Think of it as an attitude
adjuster :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

David Martin said:

On 15/6/04 11:56 am, in article
[email hidden], "audrey"

Quoted message said:

and, going OT now, notes email addy and waves to Nice Man
from the Ancestral Homelands - actually my parents left
Dundee before I was born, but we visited so often and
they talked about it so much, it feels like 'home' even
though I've never lived there.

Actually I'm from sarf of the river, and not from Scotland
at all though I'm one of the few people here who moved
south on immigrating.. (a brief stay in places north and
cold) But it is a nice place and well worth visiting on a
cycling tour. The natives are friendly and to quote a
recent advertisement the spring water comes in still,
sparkling, and brown with a head. (It also doesn't rain
much here at all..)

I shall prob be visiting later in the year for Family
Things. But the thought of all those Hills puts me off
bringing bike along. At least I shall be able to understand
the locals (even though I can't acually speak the local
patois). Some Mancunian friends of mine had a miserable few
days in Dundee because of the rude locals' responses to
their requests for directions. Eventually someone told them
the locals were saying "I dinnae ken" *not* "I dinnae care"

A
--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

David Martin said:

Move about three quarters of the way across the lane,
enough to stop the car passing on the right or the left.

Hi Dave

Recently, in a situation similar to Audrey's I did as you
suggest and was overtaken on my LEFT by a car coming from
behind me.

No harm done except to thhe car's rear tyres, my vocal
chords and one of my wrists (extreme hand signalling!).

James

you know? said:

Wot the others said - move right to prevent it. Also buy an
Air Zound. It is very good at making dozy cagers realise
they have done something stupid. Think of it as an attitude
adjuster :-)

hmm .. does it work better than sidling up to them in the
baked bean aisle, enquiring if they have a [insert colour]
[insert make] car? then asking them why they cut just cut
you up like that? preferably in hearing range of their
spouse/partner/kids

A

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

audrey said:

I shall prob be visiting later in the year for Family
Things. But the thought of all those Hills puts me off
bringing bike along.

There's no shortage of them, but the somewhat linear nature
of the town layout along the side of 2 hills means you can
usually zig and zag up more sensible inclines rather than
take on the Serious Stuff head on.
e.g, Hilltown bad, Victoria Road good, West Park Road bad,
Blackness Road good. My round-town hack bike has a 3 speed
hub on it and it's okay for the job.

If you want a pleasant hackette head out West to Errol
(possibly for dinner at the Smiddy), which is along the side
of the firth and aside from a short climb to Errol at the
end or into Invergowrie on the way back is pretty much
pancake terrain.

Quoted message said:

I shall be able to understand the locals (even though I
can't actually speak the local patois).

I've lived here since '89 and some parts of Lochee still
leave me pretty confused as to what's being said... I think
it's a bit like Chinese with the intonation thing, with the
word "Ehhh" alone capable of expressing many different
concepts when used just so... ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

audrey said:

Quoted message said:

Wot the others said - move right to prevent it. Also buy
an Air Zound. It is very good at making dozy cagers
realise they have done something stupid. Think of it as
an attitude adjuster :-)

hmm .. does it work better than sidling up to them in the
baked bean aisle, enquiring if they have a [insert colour]
[insert make] car? then asking them why they cut just cut
you up like that? preferably in hearing range of their
spouse/partner/kids

Either would be more civilised than accidentally knocking
the offender's ankle with your trolley wheel. Ouch! :-)

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

audrey said:

the trouble with this particular junction is the cars
accelerate hard to get past, so they are not stuck
behind a bike on the narrow access road for the few
seconds it would take them to get into the car park. It
also bothers me On Principle, I think, because over
taking at a junction is A Bad Thing.

I agree it's Bad, and dodgy overtaking of all sorts is
happening more and more as the acceleration performance of
average cars increases to ridiculous levels. The drivers
must be doing their brains in with all the G force!

I don't know about that. I've driven many miles behind
queues of tailgating cars who won't / can't overtake HGVs
doing 40 on single carriageway roads. Anyway, overtaking in
a car with a decent amount of go is safer than in a slow
car, as you're on the wrong side of the road for less time.

Pete Biggs said:

Either would be more civilised than accidentally knocking
the offender's ankle with your trolley wheel. Ouch! :-)

I wouldn't dream of doing anything of that nature. I can't
carry a trolley's worth of stuff home on the bike.

A

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

Doki said:

Quoted message said:

I agree it's Bad, and dodgy overtaking of all sorts is
happening more and more as the acceleration
performance of average cars increases to ridiculous
levels. The drivers must be doing their brains in with
all the G force!

I don't know about that. I've driven many miles behind
queues of tailgating cars who won't / can't overtake HGVs
doing 40 on single carriageway roads. Anyway, overtaking
in a car with a decent amount of go is safer than in a
slow car, as you're on the wrong side of the road for
less time.

But it's often safer still not to overtake at all and slower
cars encourage that. Some drivers may still be cautious or
even over-cautious but my point was that overtaking is more
frequent than it used to be. Motorists overtake me on my
bike more often and quicker than they used to a few years
ago just because they can.

~PB

Doki said:

overtaking in a car with a decent amount of go is safer
than in a slow car, as you're on the wrong side of the
road for less time.

In theory. But what actually happens is that people use the
greater power to get into bigger trouble more quickly (see
the recent Top Gear pictures for details).

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

audrey said:

Quoted message said:

Either would be more civilised than accidentally knocking
the offender's ankle with your trolley wheel. Ouch! :-)

I wouldn't dream of doing anything of that nature. I can't
carry a trolley's worth of stuff home on the bike.

:-) I can, actually. Albeit rather in rather a wobbly
:fashion, with
risk of busting my bike. ...One reason I'm going to build a
super-strong rear wheel (hence recent questions about
touring rims, etc).

~PB

Peter Clinch said:

audrey said:

I shall prob be visiting later in the year for Family
Things. But the thought of all those Hills puts me off
bringing bike along.

There's no shortage of them, but the somewhat linear nature
of the town layout along the side of 2 hills means you can
usually zig and zag up more sensible inclines rather than
take on the Serious Stuff head on.
e.g, Hilltown bad, Victoria Road good, West Park Road bad,
Blackness Road good. My round-town hack bike has a 3
speed hub on it and it's okay for the job.

I suspect your legs have more gears in them than mine, tho

A

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm