General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Slightly Different Look

Started by TomHendricks474 · · Last activity · 4 posts · 367 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
7 June 2004
Last activity
13 June 2004
Original author
TomHendricks474
Posts
4
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
367
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–4 of 4
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Take a strand of RNA. I now suggest that there is a loop end
    and a naked stem end. The loop end has 3 bases , like the
    anticodon. The stem end ends with ATP that connects that
    base to the amino acid.

    Now instead of my old idea that thermal stability of h-bonds
    determined the genetic code, I've got this new idea.

    If dimers are on either the anticodon loop end or the other
    RNA it is paired to, then it can't code because it can't
    pair together. Thus isolating that molecule from attachment
    to any other RNA

    If there is coding such that the middle base is a pyrimidine
    then neither the first or 3rd position can be pyrimidines
    (that would be a dimer = 2 pyrimidines side by side on the
    same strand - and remember even if there is no dimer on the
    anticodon there would be on its codon or matching RNA
    molecule - so it still couldn't code

    pyr, pyr, pyr / or pyr pyr pur / or pur pyr pyr/ all would
    be dimers and not code UNLESS they were formed only in water
    or protected from UV in some other way.

    We are left with only 2 codons that are safe from dimers:
    pur,pyr,pur or pyr,pur,pyr.

    But with wobble bases that would extend it a bit in the
    favor of purines. Also prebiotic experiments produce much
    more purines than pyrimidines and more easily.

    So we end up with mostly purine codons (With a slim chance
    that it is a pyrimidine codon but only if it is pur, pyr,
    pur OR in water or under shelter of some sort

    The key is mostly 2nd position - whether its purine or
    pyrimidine

    So its dimers (not thermal stability of 3 h-bonds) that
    sets up coding
    1. mostly purine
    2. a few pyrimidine under certain environmental conditions.

    Now for the other end. The acceptor stem end.

    Would it be possible for an RNA strand with ATP sitting
    where the A on the acceptor stem is now - to use its
    phosphorus to join an amino acid to this stem like it
    does today?

    Comment?

  2. << The stem end ends with ATP that connects that base to the
    amino acid. >>

    This is interesting. Note that the acceptor stem is
    always CCA

    With CC together , 2 pyrimidines, there is danger of UV
    damage causing a dimer that would prevent this stem from
    base pairing.

    But maybe that was a selected advantage. If it could not
    base pair, then you would always be guaranteed a single
    strand sticking out at lease 3 bases. Just right for
    connecting to an amino acid.

    And perhaps the A that ends the stem (CCA) is formerly an
    ATP to help join the tRNA type stem to an amino acid in some
    primitive way.

    Comment?

  3. [email hidden] (TomHendricks474) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    << The stem end ends with ATP that connects that base to
    the amino acid. >>

    This is interesting. Note that the acceptor stem is
    always CCA

    With CC together , 2 pyrimidines, there is danger of UV
    damage causing a dimer that would prevent this stem from
    base pairing.

    But maybe that was a selected advantage. If it could not
    base pair, then you would always be guaranteed a single
    strand sticking out at lease 3 bases. Just right for
    connecting to an amino acid.

    And perhaps the A that ends the stem (CCA) is formerly an
    ATP to help join the tRNA type stem to an amino acid in
    some primitive way.

    Comment?

    Tom, I'm not getting the picture you are drawing. The A at
    the end of a modern CCA is attached to a single 5'
    phosphate, which is in turn attached to the middle C at its
    3' site. But now you say that this A was an ATP. That means
    three phosphate groups. Where do they go?

    At first I thought you meant that the purine at the 5' end
    (#75) was an ATP and that it was involved in transfering the
    amino acid. That idea seemed interesting to me, but it now
    appears that it was not your idea.

  4. [email hidden] (TomHendricks474) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    << Tom, I'm not getting the picture you are drawing.

    Quoted message said:

    You are the 2nd to point this out. It was a bad idea. My
    speculation was weak and too quickly posted. [snip]

    In reading I found this idea which makes more sense.
    [snip] "Biochemists have suggested that polyphosphate
    chains may have provided some of the first organismic
    energy sources, ...[snip] Now building on that idea -
    perhaps the polyphosphate chains, not the ATP
    connected these early nucleotides on this naked stem
    with amino acids.

    I am still not getting the picture. Is the polyphosphate
    attached to the stem or to the amino acid? Are you talking
    about transfering the aa to the stem using normal covalent
    bonding, or are you still talking about h-bonds?

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.