Pavement cyclists

On 11 Jun 2004 20:58:35 GMT, Andy Leighton <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that
most of the offenders read it and the rest ignore the
letters. What is the best approach to try and reduce
pavement cycling?

Make the pavement shared use - cyclists hate using them.

Andy Leighton <[email hidden]> wrote:

<Snipped Text>

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt
that most of the offenders read it and the rest ignore the
letters. What is the best approach to try and reduce
pavement cycling?

Slotted manhole covers?

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS Honda
Concerto 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
thehewitts.plus.comthehewitts.plus.comOpen ↗ - now online

In "]news:[email hidden], Andy Leighton
<[email hidden]> expounded sagaciously: What is the

Quoted message said:

best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Cobbles.
--

Martin Bulmer

Pie Conservation Threat

Walk in the road?

"Andy Leighton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning
(to go and see the cricket) and was passing over town
bridge in Peterborough. As I got half way across I noticed
a couple of women walking to my left and a cycle coming up
from behind. So I matched pace with the other walkers and
we walked three abreast.

"Excuse me" an indignant middle-aged female voice comes
from behind me.

"If you were on the road like you are supposed to be then
you wouldn't have a problem" I replied. My fellow walkers
also grumbled their

agreement

Quoted message said:

but let the woman through.

"It is too dangerous" she said as she pushed through.

"Well why ride on the pavement then?"

"Because there isn't a cycle-path" as she surges forward.

"Well get off and push" I shout at her back as she
gets out of

conversation

Quoted message said:

distance.

This is no isolated case and in this case she was going at
six or seven mph. Some people whizz across at about 12 mph
on the pavement.

There is a police station more or less at one end of the
bridge (on Bridge Street would you believe) but no visible
policing of pavement cycling (that I have seen).

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt
that most of the offenders read it and the rest ignore the
letters. What is the best approach to try and reduce
pavement cycling?

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden] "The Lord is my
shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Andy Leighton said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt
that most of the offenders read it and the rest ignore the
letters. What is the best approach to try and reduce
pavement cycling?

Get the council to paint a little picture of a cycle, and a
little picture of people walking on the pavement surface
complete with nice signs and advertising campaign.

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt
that most of the offenders read it and the rest ignore the
letters. What is the best approach to try and reduce
pavement cycling?

Pavement-cyclist-cameras, with mugshots of the worst
offenders in the newspaper each week.

These will work by looking for the distinctive radar
signature of moving bicycle wheels.

Offenders will switch to spokeless racing wheels to avoid
detection, at which point they will discover they can't
kerb hop any more anyway, and they will be forced to ride
on the roads.

AC

Martin Bulmer said:

In "]news:[email hidden], Andy Leighton
<[email hidden]> expounded sagaciously: What is the

Quoted message said:

best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Cobbles.

Bollocks to you too.

Andy Leighton said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning
(to go and see the cricket) and was passing over town
bridge in Peterborough. As I got half way across I noticed
a couple of women walking to my left and a cycle coming up
from behind. So I matched pace with the other walkers and
we walked three abreast.

"Excuse me" an indignant middle-aged female voice comes
from behind me.

"If you were on the road like you are supposed to be then
you wouldn't have a problem" I replied. My fellow walkers
also grumbled their agreement but let the woman through.

I normally say something along the lines of "don't your
parents let you ride on the road yet", especially if they
look well over 20

Quoted message said:

"It is too dangerous" she said as she pushed through.

"Well why ride on the pavement then?"

"Because there isn't a cycle-path" as she surges forward.

"Well get off and push" I shout at her back as she gets
out of conversation distance.

This is no isolated case and in this case she was going at
six or seven mph. Some people whizz across at about 12 mph
on the pavement.

There is a police station more or less at one end of the
bridge (on Bridge Street would you believe) but no visible
policing of pavement cycling (that I have seen).

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt
that most of the offenders read it and the rest ignore the
letters. What is the best approach to try and reduce
pavement cycling?

"Andy Leighton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning
(to go and see the cricket) and was passing over town
bridge in Peterborough.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt
that most of the offenders read it and the rest ignore the
letters. What is the best approach to try and reduce
pavement cycling?

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden] "The Lord is my
shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Prove to 'em that it is more dangerous riding on the
pavement than riding on the road and beat the [censored] out of
'em with a baseball bat every time you encounter them ;-)

Dave.

-alternately throw a newspaper boy/girl in their path when
they're not looking (see my previous post)

Andy Leighton said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning
(to go and see the cricket) and was passing over town
bridge in Peterborough. As I got half way across I noticed
a couple of women walking to my left and a cycle coming up
from behind. So I matched pace with the other walkers and
we walked three abreast.

"Excuse me" an indignant middle-aged female voice comes
from behind me.

"If you were on the road like you are supposed to be then
you wouldn't have a problem" I replied. My fellow walkers
also grumbled their agreement but let the woman through.

"It is too dangerous" she said as she pushed through.

"Well why ride on the pavement then?"

"Because there isn't a cycle-path" as she surges forward.

"Well get off and push" I shout at her back as she gets
out of conversation distance.

This is no isolated case and in this case she was going at
six or seven mph. Some people whizz across at about 12 mph
on the pavement.

There is a police station more or less at one end of the
bridge (on Bridge Street would you believe) but no visible
policing of pavement cycling (that I have seen).

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt
that most of the offenders read it and the rest ignore the
letters. What is the best approach to try and reduce
pavement cycling?

Make the roads less dangerous?

Andy Leighton said:

What is the best approach to try and reduce pavement
cycling?

More humiliation of pavement cyclists. Mine is "Push it!",
but it's a bit [censored] and I might start using Pete Whelan's
(see above).

Reply to Pete whelan

Quoted message said:

I normally say something along the lines of "don't your
parents let you ride on the road yet", especially if they
look well over 20

Ha! [promptly steals for own use...]

--
Mark, UK. We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him
squeak, We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

"jamie g" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Leighton said:

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt
that most of

the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters.
What is the best approach to try and reduce pavement
cycling?

Make the roads less dangerous?

Less dangerous than what? A car may hit you whilst you cycle
on the road, it may also mount the pavement and hit you
whilst you cycle on it, this isn't a throwaway remark, I
regularly read of peds hit by cars mounting the pavement.
You will still have to negotiate the same junctions whether
cycling on the road or pavement. Should negotiating a
roundabout or making a right turn seem daunting then get off
and cross as you would if a ped.

When you approach a junction as a cyclist on the road
priorities, in the main, are clear to you and other road
users. If you approach the same junction as a pavement
cyclist the situation is more ambiguous and this may make
other road users show extra caution toward you or OTOH they
may not expect a bicycle to drop off the kerb in front of
them if sight lines are more restricted for the pavement
than road, this isn't so much of a problem for peds with
their lower speeds.

If you are going to cycle slowly on the pavement what's
the point?
--
Regards, Pete

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:53:10 +0000 (UTC), "Peter B"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

A car may hit you whilst you cycle on the road, it may also
mount the pavement and hit you whilst you cycle on it, this
isn't a throwaway remark, I regularly read of peds hit by
cars mounting the pavement.

ISTR about 60-70 people killed per year by motor vehicles on
the footway, same again on ped crossings.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Quoted message said:

What is the best approach to try and reduce pavement
cycling?

Easy,

You have to be tough on the causes of pavement cycling, not
just address the 'problem' of pavement cycling itself.

Run a national awareness campaign highlighting that cycles
are vehicles and have at least as much right to use the
roads as car drivers: quite possibly more seeing that the
use of the public road for cycling (and walking) is a legal
right, not a privilege controlled through licence.

Start banning driviers who fail to acknowledge the rights of
cyclists to use the public road and drive without due
consideration, even when injury or death does not result.

Follow this up with a 'zero tolerance' campaign for those
drivers who intimidate cyclists off the roads by speeding,
overtaking too closely, overtaking cyclists then turning
left across their paths, failing to give way at junctions
and roundabouts, etc., etc. Apart from making cyclists much
more confident to use the roads this will also help to
undermine the general lack of respect for the law that is so
evident in this country, an attitude so evident in the
behaviour of motor vehicle users.

Next, reduce urban speed limits to a level where all those
'errors' made by drivers will not lead to death and injury.
You seem to think 12 MPH is recklessly fast for a cyclist,
so shall we say lets introduce a universal urban limit of 10
MPH and 20 MPH on rural lanes?

We should also get rid of all those stupid 'cycle paths'
along side roads as these give the message that the cyclist
can only be 'safe' if they ride on the pavement, albeit a
pavement with a sign up calling it a 'cycle path.'

Then again we could just accept that 'pavement cycling' is
not much of a 'problem' in any case. Each year under 60
people are injured by 'pavement cyclists' and genuinely
serious injuries and deaths almost unknown. In comparison
around 40 people a year are killed and another 3500 injured
by car drivers whilst they walk on a footway and another 80
killed and 4300 injured by car drivers whilst they use a
pedestrian crossing. (Highway Code advice 'always slow down
and be prepared to stop).

We might also like to address the problem of pedestrians who
step into the highway without looking and collide with
cyclists. This causes 3 times more injures then does
'pavement cycling' and accounts for most cycle/pedestrian
collision deaths, usually running at 2-3 pedestrians and
another 2-3 cyclists per year.

Perhaps someone could also run course for arrogant
pedestrians in courtesy and common sense when encountering
cyclists politely asking to pass on a ‘footpath'.
Unfortunately, far to many ‘pedestrians' (often just car
drivers who have found somewhere to leave their car) take
the hostility they display towards cyclists when driving
onto shared use paths, bridleways and so on going out of
their way to be confrontational and obstructive. Still
that's the British for you...

Andy Leighton said:

What is the best approach to try and reduce pavement
cycling?

Why does it matter? Of all the problems to get worked up
about, pavement cyclists should rank very low on the list.

What is the best approach to try to reduce the number of
pedestrians killed by motor vehicles on the pavement (or
even off the pavement, they are just as dead)?

James

Simonb said:

Andy Leighton said:

What is the best approach to try and reduce pavement
cycling?

More humiliation of pavement cyclists. Mine is "Push it!",
but it's a bit [censored] and I might start using Pete Whelan's
(see above).

I usually stand in the way; making them join the road of
cycle v. slowly. Head down looking at phone usually avoids
confrontation but I'm happy to enter debate on use of
pavements if required.

jamie g said:

Andy Leighton said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning
(to go and see the cricket) and was passing over town
bridge in Peterborough. As I got half way across I
noticed a couple of women walking to my left and a cycle
coming up from behind. So I matched pace with the other
walkers and we walked three abreast.

"Excuse me" an indignant middle-aged female voice comes
from behind me.

"If you were on the road like you are supposed to be then
you wouldn't have a problem" I replied. My fellow walkers
also grumbled their agreement but let the woman through.

"It is too dangerous" she said as she pushed through.

Make the roads less dangerous?

Firstly many people will tell you that it is generally less
dangerous on the road than the pavement. Also I think it is
well accepted that it is much less dangerous than it is
perceived.

In point of fact this particular road is quite safe during
the day (at night you do get some mad speeders). At 0730
there was very low traffic density - no more than about five
vehicles on the road over the bridge.

With bike-week almost upon us, I feel it is important to
stress to returning and new riders how to ride their
bikes properly, and to show the road isn't as dangerous
as they think. Basically get them off the pavements and
onto the roads.

Personally I would think that it would be a good thing for
local councils to fund adult (and child) bike education -
which as well as helping with petty law-breaking such as
this might also give more people the confidence to get out
on their bike.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden] "The Lord is my
shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Howard said:

Quoted message said:

What is the best approach to try and reduce pavement
cycling?

Easy,

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Next, reduce urban speed limits to a level where all those
'errors' made by drivers will not lead to death and
injury. You seem to think 12 MPH is recklessly fast for a
cyclist,

On a pavement, yes - especially a pavement where there are
children and babies in buggies etc. On the road 12 mph is
not recklessly fast, even I averaged at least that when I
used to commute to work (I now work at home and cycle
commuting the 5 yards from my bedroom to my office is
impractical).

Quoted message said:

Then again we could just accept that 'pavement cycling' is
not much of a 'problem' in any case. Each year under 60
people are injured by 'pavement cyclists' and genuinely
serious injuries and deaths almost unknown.

Depends by what you mean a 'problem'. Obviously it isn't
that serious when you look at injury figures - and that was
not the basis on which I am against it. Pavement cycling is
just another example of anti- social behaviour. Same as
graffiti, pissing in the street, and public drunkeness.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps someone could also run course for arrogant
pedestrians in courtesy and common sense when encountering
cyclists politely asking to pass on a 'footpath'.

If people showed common sense, courtesy and respect for the
law by riding their bike in the road or pushing the bike
along the footway then I am more than willing to show some
courtesy back.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, far to many 'pedestrians' (often just car
drivers who have found somewhere to leave their car) take
the hostility they display towards cyclists when driving
onto shared use paths, bridleways and so on going out of
their way to be confrontational and obstructive.

I have no problems with people on bikes on shared use paths,
bridleways etc. Even those shared use paths which are very
poorly designed - where I have to step out into the bike bit
from time to time due to street furniture (or where the
bikes have to go in the pedestrian bit for the same reason).
I think I have previously posted that I do not drive, do not
have a license, and I have never driven. I use feet, bike,
bus and train to get about.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden] "The Lord is my
shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_