Opinions Please?

1) You need to be more assertive in these situations.
"Hang on, hold it .. I prefer to leave the room while
you undress and please be sure to be fully covered with
the sheet before I re-enter" ..and be sure to knock
before you do!

2) Yes it most definitely would be a breach of
confidentiality. Spouses ( or any family member) are no
more privy to any client details than any other person.
Confidential means confidential.

"Chey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all,

I haven't posted before though I read often. I'm a
confirmed lurker. Last night however I encountered a
situation which I would like to get your thoughts on.

To preface, I'm a student at the present time and am at a
point where I

had

Quoted message said:

to go out and do a certain number of practice sessions on
friends and family. Last night I went to a dear friends
house to do my first back-to-back double session. One for
her and thenone for the man she's seeing right afterward.

The situation is thus... I had finished doing the massage
for my friend

and

Quoted message said:

was about to begin the massage for her boyfriend. He came
into the room (I had set up in her den) and I did all the
usual things I always do, asked

him

Quoted message said:

several questions and talked to him about massage, talked
about disrobing and how he could do so as little or as
much as he felt comfortable with,

had

Quoted message said:

him select his music, and so on. Then when all that was
done I handed him the sheet, gestured at the restroom and
said 'You can disrobe in there.'

He set the sheet aside and began to unbutton his shirt.
This gave me pause but I'm married and I know that my
husband has the tendency to undo his shirt on the way to
changing in the bedroom or even remove it in one room then
go to another room to remove pants and the like so though
I paused I assumed that was what he was doing. Thusly when
the shirt came off I

offered

Quoted message said:

to take it for him so his hands would be free to pick up
the sheet and go

in

Quoted message said:

the other room to disrobe.

I turned around to fold the shirt and lay it in the arm of
the sofa and I heard an unmistakable sound behind me. A
zipper of course. I heard the rustle of things coming off
and I froze a moment, unsure how to proceed. I said over
my shoulder without turning around 'The restroom is right
trough there if you'd prefer.' He didn't answer. I heard
the rustle again and unless he was wearing more layers
than are normal he had to be nude behind
me. I busied myself with my bag, and rearranged my CD's,
etc. I saw the sheet get picked up out of the corner
of my eye and then asked if he was ready and he said
yes so I turned and thankfully he was wrapped in the
sheet.

The massage proceeded as normal, and I never got a vibe
that he was

hitting

Quoted message said:

on me or otherwise being 'fresh'. I went ahead with the
massage because my friend was right in the other room and
I didn't feel threatened as we weren't alone in the house.
But even so, it left me with two questions...

1) How should I have reacted? What should I have done
differently? What would others do in this situation?

and

2) Is it a breach of client confidentiality to tell my
friend about this? I'm sincerely bothered, as her
friend, that he would pull a stunt like

this

Quoted message said:

with a massage therapist but also that he would make an
attempt at

disrobing

Quoted message said:

in front of one of her friends in her house with her
there. If it were my husband obviously I would want to
know that he had behaved this way. But

I'm

Quoted message said:

really sensitive to client confidentiality and would never
want to breach that sacred trust.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thank you well in advance for any suggestions you have to
ease my mind.

This

Quoted message said:

really bothered me to the point that I haven't slept much
because of it.

Kind regards,

Chey

--
'In wildness is the preservation of the world.'
- Henry David Thoreau, "Walking"

"Chey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all,

I haven't posted before though I read often. I'm a
confirmed lurker. Last night however I encountered a
situation which I would like to get your thoughts on.

To preface, I'm a student at the present time and am at a
point where I

had

Quoted message said:

to go out and do a certain number of practice sessions on
friends and family. Last night I went to a dear friends
house to do my first back-to-back double session. One for
her and thenone for the man she's seeing right afterward.

The situation is thus... I had finished doing the massage
for my friend

and

Quoted message said:

was about to begin the massage for her boyfriend. He came
into the room (I had set up in her den) and I did all the
usual things I always do, asked

him

Quoted message said:

several questions and talked to him about massage, talked
about disrobing and how he could do so as little or as
much as he felt comfortable with,

had

Quoted message said:

him select his music, and so on. Then when all that was
done I handed him the sheet, gestured at the restroom and
said 'You can disrobe in there.'

He set the sheet aside and began to unbutton his shirt.
This gave me pause but I'm married and I know that my
husband has the tendency to undo his shirt on the way to
changing in the bedroom or even remove it in one room then
go to another room to remove pants and the like so though
I paused I assumed that was what he was doing. Thusly when
the shirt came off I

offered

Quoted message said:

to take it for him so his hands would be free to pick up
the sheet and go

in

Quoted message said:

the other room to disrobe.

I turned around to fold the shirt and lay it in the arm of
the sofa and I heard an unmistakable sound behind me. A
zipper of course. I heard the rustle of things coming off
and I froze a moment, unsure how to proceed. I said over
my shoulder without turning around 'The restroom is right
trough there if you'd prefer.' He didn't answer. I heard
the rustle again and unless he was wearing more layers
than are normal he had to be nude behind
me. I busied myself with my bag, and rearranged my CD's,
etc. I saw the sheet get picked up out of the corner
of my eye and then asked if he was ready and he said
yes so I turned and thankfully he was wrapped in the
sheet.

The massage proceeded as normal, and I never got a vibe
that he was

hitting

Quoted message said:

on me or otherwise being 'fresh'. I went ahead with the
massage because my friend was right in the other room and
I didn't feel threatened as we weren't alone in the house.
But even so, it left me with two questions...

1) How should I have reacted? What should I have done
differently? What would others do in this situation?

and

2) Is it a breach of client confidentiality to tell my
friend about this? I'm sincerely bothered, as her
friend, that he would pull a stunt like

this

Quoted message said:

with a massage therapist but also that he would make an
attempt at

disrobing

Quoted message said:

in front of one of her friends in her house with her
there. If it were my husband obviously I would want to
know that he had behaved this way. But

I'm

Quoted message said:

really sensitive to client confidentiality and would never
want to breach that sacred trust.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thank you well in advance for any suggestions you have to
ease my mind.

This

Quoted message said:

really bothered me to the point that I haven't slept much
because of it.

Kind regards,

Chey

--

I will say that he mostlikely just didn't think ANYTHING of
undressing like that. You could have raised a big stink
about it, sure but then he would have been uncomfortable
because you raised a stink. Why were you having them disrobe
in the bathroom and coming into the massage area wrapped in
the sheet anyways? Why not YOU go into the bathroom and let
them undress and get under the sheet.

I have female clients who think nothing of pulling off their
shirts before I even have a chance to start my questions. I
work at a female only spa. I tell them politely that I will
let them undress in privacy but some say they could
careless. They undress for doctors all the time. lol I have
had male clients be just as careless also but then I will
typically just walk out and say I will be right back when
they finish or if I know they are prone to do that, I will
send them back to the room and meet them back there after
they are on the table. (I also work in a massage practice
taking both men and women)

If you work with this man again, I suggest you can tell him
politely that you prefer him to undress in privacy but I
think you handled yourself ok, you kept turned away and
looked busy. You could have been more detailed in your
request to 'go in there and disrobe". He might not have
realized you wanted him to wrap the sheet around him before
coming out. If that is the case, why bother going into the
bathroom at all? 🙂 Next time, it might be easier for you to
step out of the room and leave them to undress and get on
the table.

No you can't tell your friend anything of your session with
the male friend.

T

Not sure it was a "stunt" per se.. I've had people new to
massage that didn't seem to have a modest bone in their body
and were disrobed faster than I could "mentally" prepare as
well as physically prepare the setting. I never got the
impression they were pulling anything.. and didn't want to
make an issue of it. But I did mention as the massage was
beginning that generally I'm not present while the client is
undressing. That it's just good practice to allow each
individual their privacy, thus the draping in the first
place. They understood and explained (unnecessarily
apologetically) that they were new to the whole thing.. Not
just the massage itself, but the etiquette, etc.

IMO/E, I'd just let it be. And if/when the situation arises
where you may give him another, be sure to make a hasty
exit and tell him how important it is to maintain the
ethical quality of the session for you in your new
career endeavor.

mj "Chey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all,

I haven't posted before though I read often. I'm a
confirmed lurker. Last night however I encountered a
situation which I would like to get your thoughts on.

To preface, I'm a student at the present time and am at a
point where I

had

Quoted message said:

to go out and do a certain number of practice sessions on
friends and family. Last night I went to a dear friends
house to do my first back-to-back double session. One for
her and thenone for the man she's seeing right afterward.

The situation is thus... I had finished doing the massage
for my friend

and

Quoted message said:

was about to begin the massage for her boyfriend. He came
into the room (I had set up in her den) and I did all the
usual things I always do, asked

him

Quoted message said:

several questions and talked to him about massage, talked
about disrobing and how he could do so as little or as
much as he felt comfortable with,

had

Quoted message said:

him select his music, and so on. Then when all that was
done I handed him the sheet, gestured at the restroom and
said 'You can disrobe in there.'

He set the sheet aside and began to unbutton his shirt.
This gave me pause but I'm married and I know that my
husband has the tendency to undo his shirt on the way to
changing in the bedroom or even remove it in one room then
go to another room to remove pants and the like so though
I paused I assumed that was what he was doing. Thusly when
the shirt came off I

offered

Quoted message said:

to take it for him so his hands would be free to pick up
the sheet and go

in

Quoted message said:

the other room to disrobe.

I turned around to fold the shirt and lay it in the arm of
the sofa and I heard an unmistakable sound behind me. A
zipper of course. I heard the rustle of things coming off
and I froze a moment, unsure how to proceed. I said over
my shoulder without turning around 'The restroom is right
trough there if you'd prefer.' He didn't answer. I heard
the rustle again and unless he was wearing more layers
than are normal he had to be nude behind
me. I busied myself with my bag, and rearranged my CD's,
etc. I saw the sheet get picked up out of the corner
of my eye and then asked if he was ready and he said
yes so I turned and thankfully he was wrapped in the
sheet.

The massage proceeded as normal, and I never got a vibe
that he was

hitting

Quoted message said:

on me or otherwise being 'fresh'. I went ahead with the
massage because my friend was right in the other room and
I didn't feel threatened as we weren't alone in the house.
But even so, it left me with two questions...

1) How should I have reacted? What should I have done
differently? What would others do in this situation?

and

2) Is it a breach of client confidentiality to tell my
friend about this? I'm sincerely bothered, as her
friend, that he would pull a stunt like

this

Quoted message said:

with a massage therapist but also that he would make an
attempt at

disrobing

Quoted message said:

in front of one of her friends in her house with her
there. If it were my husband obviously I would want to
know that he had behaved this way. But

I'm

Quoted message said:

really sensitive to client confidentiality and would never
want to breach that sacred trust.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thank you well in advance for any suggestions you have to
ease my mind.

This

Quoted message said:

really bothered me to the point that I haven't slept much
because of it.

Kind regards,

Chey

--
'In wildness is the preservation of the world.'
- Henry David Thoreau, "Walking"

"Chey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all,

I haven't posted before though I read often. I'm a
confirmed lurker. Last night however I encountered a
situation which I would like to get your thoughts on.

To preface, I'm a student at the present time and am at a
point where I

had

Quoted message said:

to go out and do a certain number of practice sessions on
friends and family. Last night I went to a dear friends
house to do my first back-to-back double session. One for
her and thenone for the man she's seeing right afterward.

The situation is thus... I had finished doing the massage
for my friend

and

Quoted message said:

was about to begin the massage for her boyfriend. He came
into the room (I had set up in her den) and I did all the
usual things I always do, asked

him

Quoted message said:

several questions and talked to him about massage, talked
about disrobing and how he could do so as little or as
much as he felt comfortable with,

had

Quoted message said:

him select his music, and so on. Then when all that was
done I handed him the sheet, gestured at the restroom and
said 'You can disrobe in there.'

He set the sheet aside and began to unbutton his shirt.
This gave me pause but I'm married and I know that my
husband has the tendency to undo his shirt on the way to
changing in the bedroom or even remove it in one room then
go to another room to remove pants and the like so though
I paused I assumed that was what he was doing. Thusly when
the shirt came off I

offered

Quoted message said:

to take it for him so his hands would be free to pick up
the sheet and go

in

Quoted message said:

the other room to disrobe.

I turned around to fold the shirt and lay it in the arm of
the sofa and I heard an unmistakable sound behind me. A
zipper of course. I heard the rustle of things coming off
and I froze a moment, unsure how to proceed. I said over
my shoulder without turning around 'The restroom is right
trough there if you'd prefer.' He didn't answer. I heard
the rustle again and unless he was wearing more layers
than are normal he had to be nude behind
me. I busied myself with my bag, and rearranged my CD's,
etc. I saw the sheet get picked up out of the corner
of my eye and then asked if he was ready and he said
yes so I turned and thankfully he was wrapped in the
sheet.

The massage proceeded as normal, and I never got a vibe
that he was

hitting

Quoted message said:

on me or otherwise being 'fresh'. I went ahead with the
massage because my friend was right in the other room and
I didn't feel threatened as we weren't alone in the house.
But even so, it left me with two questions...

1) How should I have reacted? What should I have done
differently? What would others do in this situation?

and

2) Is it a breach of client confidentiality to tell my
friend about this? I'm sincerely bothered, as her
friend, that he would pull a stunt like

this

Quoted message said:

with a massage therapist but also that he would make an
attempt at

disrobing

Quoted message said:

in front of one of her friends in her house with her
there. If it were my husband obviously I would want to
know that he had behaved this way. But

I'm

Quoted message said:

really sensitive to client confidentiality and would never
want to breach that sacred trust.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thank you well in advance for any suggestions you have to
ease my mind.

This

Quoted message said:

really bothered me to the point that I haven't slept much
because of it.

Kind regards,

Chey

You need to lighten up. You are in the body business and,
over time you will see thousands of bodies, and all their
parts. You may be placed in various possibly compromising
situations from time to time. If you don't like the human
body or are afraid of a zipper unzipping what are you doing
in the massage business? You need to get use to this stuff
and just shrug it off, it's going to happen some of the
time. In a situation like you described, you need to keep
doing your prep, make no comment then get on with the

straight about it and matter of factly say you don't do that
or offer that service. Don't be insulting, supprised or
shocked, just say no. Do not internalize it or worry about
it. Be an adult and handle the situation like an adult. In a
year or two nothing should supprise you. Bob

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:25:00 -0600, "Chey" <[email hidden]> wrote:

YOU should leave the room, then KNOCK before reentering,
WAIT for a reply from him, then ASK if he's under the sheets
before opening the door the rest of the way and coming in.

Quoted message said:

Hello all,

I haven't posted before though I read often. I'm a
confirmed lurker. Last night however I encountered a
situation which I would like to get your thoughts on.

To preface, I'm a student at the present time and am at a
point where I had to go out and do a certain number of
practice sessions on friends and family. Last night I went
to a dear friends house to do my first back-to-back double
session. One for her and thenone for the man she's seeing
right afterward.

The situation is thus... I had finished doing the massage
for my friend and was about to begin the massage for her
boyfriend. He came into the room (I had set up in her den)
and I did all the usual things I always do, asked him
several questions and talked to him about massage, talked
about disrobing and how he could do so as little or as
much as he felt comfortable with, had him select his
music, and so on. Then when all that was done I handed him
the sheet, gestured at the restroom and said 'You can
disrobe in there.'

He set the sheet aside and began to unbutton his shirt.
This gave me pause but I'm married and I know that my
husband has the tendency to undo his shirt on the way to
changing in the bedroom or even remove it in one room then
go to another room to remove pants and the like so though I
paused I assumed that was what he was doing. Thusly when
the shirt came off I offered to take it for him so his
hands would be free to pick up the sheet and go in the
other room to disrobe.

I turned around to fold the shirt and lay it in the arm of
the sofa and I heard an unmistakable sound behind me. A
zipper of course. I heard the rustle of things coming off
and I froze a moment, unsure how to proceed. I said over my
shoulder without turning around 'The restroom is right
trough there if you'd prefer.' He didn't answer. I heard
the rustle again and unless he was wearing more layers than
are normal he had to be nude behind
me. I busied myself with my bag, and rearranged my CD's,
etc. I saw the sheet get picked up out of the corner of
my eye and then asked if he was ready and he said yes
so I turned and thankfully he was wrapped in the sheet.

The massage proceeded as normal, and I never got a vibe
that he was hitting on me or otherwise being 'fresh'. I
went ahead with the massage because my friend was right in
the other room and I didn't feel threatened as we weren't
alone in the house. But even so, it left me with two
questions...

1) How should I have reacted? What should I have done
differently? What would others do in this situation?

and

2) Is it a breach of client confidentiality to tell my
friend about this? I'm sincerely bothered, as her
friend, that he would pull a stunt like this with a
massage therapist but also that he would make an attempt
at disrobing in front of one of her friends in her house
with her there. If it were my husband obviously I would
want to know that he had behaved this way. But I'm
really sensitive to client confidentiality and would
never want to breach that sacred trust.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thank you well in advance for any suggestions you have to
ease my mind. This really bothered me to the point that I
haven't slept much because of it.

Kind regards,

Chey

Chey said:

The situation is thus... I had finished doing the massage
for my friend and was about to begin the massage for her
boyfriend. He came into the room (I had set up in her den)
and I did all the usual things I always do, asked him
several questions and talked to him about massage, talked
about disrobing and how he could do so as little or as
much as he felt comfortable with, had him select his
music, and so on. Then when all that was done I handed him
the sheet, gestured at the restroom and said 'You can
disrobe in there.'

He set the sheet aside and began to unbutton his shirt.
This gave me pause but I'm married and I know that my
husband has the tendency to undo his shirt on the way to
changing in the bedroom or even remove it in one room then
go to another room to remove pants and the like so though
I paused I assumed that was what he was doing. Thusly when
the shirt came off I offered to take it for him so his
hands would be free to pick up the sheet and go in the
other room to disrobe.

I turned around to fold the shirt and lay it in the arm of
the sofa and I heard an unmistakable sound behind me. A
zipper of course. I heard the rustle of things coming off
and I froze a moment, unsure how to proceed. I said over
my shoulder without turning around 'The restroom is right
trough there if you'd prefer.' He didn't answer. I heard
the rustle again and unless he was wearing more layers
than are normal he had to be nude behind me. I busied
myself with my bag, and rearranged my CD's, etc. I saw the
sheet get picked up out of the corner of my eye and then
asked if he was ready and he said yes so I turned and
thankfully he was wrapped in the sheet.

The massage proceeded as normal, and I never got a vibe
that he was hitting on me or otherwise being 'fresh'. I
went ahead with the massage because my friend was right in
the other room and I didn't feel threatened as we weren't
alone in the house. But even so, it left me with two
questions...

1) How should I have reacted? What should I have done
differently? What would others do in this situation?

I think you did fine, although I generally leave the massage
room rather than asking the client to do so.

Quoted message said:

and

2) Is it a breach of client confidentiality to tell my
friend about this?

Yes.

Chey said:

Hello all,

I haven't posted before though I read often. I'm a
confirmed lurker. Last night however I encountered a
situation which I would like to get your thoughts on.

To preface, I'm a student at the present time and am at a
point where I had to go out and do a certain number of
practice sessions on friends and family. Last night I went
to a dear friends house to do my first back-to-back double
session. One for her and thenone for the man she's seeing
right afterward.

The situation is thus... I had finished doing the massage
for my friend and was about to begin the massage for her
boyfriend. He came into the room (I had set up in her den)
and I did all the usual things I always do, asked him
several questions and talked to him about massage, talked
about disrobing and how he could do so as little or as
much as he felt comfortable with, had him select his
music, and so on. Then when all that was done I handed him
the sheet, gestured at the restroom and said 'You can
disrobe in there.'

He set the sheet aside and began to unbutton his shirt.
This gave me pause but I'm married and I know that my
husband has the tendency to undo his shirt on the way to
changing in the bedroom or even remove it in one room then
go to another room to remove pants and the like so though
I paused I assumed that was what he was doing. Thusly when
the shirt came off I offered to take it for him so his
hands would be free to pick up the sheet and go in the
other room to disrobe.

I turned around to fold the shirt and lay it in the arm of
the sofa and I heard an unmistakable sound behind me. A
zipper of course. I heard the rustle of things coming off
and I froze a moment, unsure how to proceed. I said over
my shoulder without turning around 'The restroom is right
trough there if you'd prefer.' He didn't answer. I heard
the rustle again and unless he was wearing more layers
than are normal he had to be nude behind
me. I busied myself with my bag, and rearranged my CD's,
etc. I saw the sheet get picked up out of the corner
of my eye and then asked if he was ready and he said
yes so I turned and thankfully he was wrapped in the
sheet.

The massage proceeded as normal, and I never got a vibe
that he was hitting on me or otherwise being 'fresh'. I
went ahead with the massage because my friend was right in
the other room and I didn't feel threatened as we weren't
alone in the house. But even so, it left me with two
questions...

1) How should I have reacted? What should I have done
differently? What would others do in this situation?

and

2) Is it a breach of client confidentiality to tell my
friend about this? I'm sincerely bothered, as her
friend, that he would pull a stunt like this with a
massage therapist but also that he would make an
attempt at disrobing in front of one of her friends in
her house with her there. If it were my husband
obviously I would want to know that he had behaved this
way. But I'm really sensitive to client confidentiality
and would never want to breach that sacred trust.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thank you well in advance for any suggestions you have to
ease my mind. This really bothered me to the point that I
haven't slept much because of it.

Kind regards,

Chey

--
'In wildness is the preservation of the world.'
- Henry David Thoreau, "Walking"

Dang Gurlfrend,

Chill!

You said yourself that the client didn't behave
inappropriately during the massage. That seems supportive of
the idea that he wasn't up to anything with the disrobing
ritual. He probably was confused about why you would ask him
to leave and he probably didn't care about you seeing him
naked. Or he's an ass looking for a chance to show you his
stuff. Who knows.

Why the heck are you telling the client to go to another
room to undress? You should step out while the client
undresses. You should have given him some privacy. He's not
there to serve you; you're there to serve him. It's your job
to make him comfortable, not his job to make you
comfortable.

What's to tell? Hi, I just wanted to let you know that your
boyfriend undressed in front of me, the MT, before getting
his massage. Oh, that's right, people get naked for their
massages if they don't have nakedness hang ups. It's part of
what makes a massage special: an

Relax and enjoy your future vocation; we're all naked under
our clothes, some of us just look better naked than others.

Ben

First, thanks so much for the supportive replies, we all struggle with
different things as we go through this and I've found one of mine I suppose.
It's all about learning, growng, and getting better in time. 🙂

After thinking about this for another day I think that
perhaps it bothered me because of a few reasons that had
nothing whatever to do with the situation. (Therefore I
need to work on not letting those things influence the way
I feel about a session.) I had not met him before (he
lives several hours away and she usually goes to his place
rather than he to hers.) And I disliked the way he treated
her and the comments he has made to her in the past (when
asked if he would like her to go to Mexico with him when
he went on business he said to her "Why would I take sand
to the beach?"😉

Obviously I should NEVER allow any outside predjudices
influence my work and I thought that I had set that aside,
and I likely had... right up to that point where it crossed
my (heretofore unknown) comfort line. Maybe it would not
have bothered me at all had I not already been predjudiced
against him somewhat. My problem, not his. And obviously I
need to work on that.

Thankfully I have no problems with the human body and
nudity, and probably would have been bothered much less had
it been nearly anyone else. Hrm. Personal flaw, I'll work on
that too. :-/

Thanks for being so suportive and understanding. It
means a lot. 🙂

To those who were less than supportive but instead decided
that the answer was to insult, harangue, attempt to
undermine my confidence, or otherwise throw their weight
around, I'm sure we (students in general) are all grateful
for your service and advice as we strive to be just as
wonderful and perfect as you must have been when you first
began. And yes we all know that the best teachers are those
who have nothing positive or comforting to offer.
Unfortunately not all of us are capable of knowing
everything right from the start and have the unfortunate
condition called humanity that nurtures within us the
predilection toward making mistakes, through the course of
which we hope to learn. In time, perhaps we will be one
tenth the people that you are and until then we'll just have
to keep on trying and admiring your shining glorious
perfection. 🙂

Chey

<<Why were you having them

Quoted message said:

disrobe in the bathroom and coming into the massage area
wrapped in the sheet anyways? Why not YOU go into the
bathroom and let them undress and

get

Quoted message said:

under the sheet.>>

Two reasons, the first is a completely unacceptable answer
but true "Because this is how we were taught in school." But
I choose to continue to do it that way for my own reasons...
I personally feel it is more professional and suits my style
better to have them disrobe in another room from the main
massage room, return wrapped in the sheet whenever they are
ready and then I help them onto the table to prevent
accidents or injury. So far, several of the people who I've
worked on in these practice sessions have liked it that way
better than the way thier therapist does it and has
commented on it which surprised me... so I've kept to it.
They felt more secure getting on the table this way and I
was there to help protect their modesty as well so their
hands were free to support their getting on the table.
Please note that I'm not syaing my way is better than anyone
elses merely that I like it that way and it fits my personal
style because to ME it feels more professional. 🙂

I think you may be right, in that he is just not a very
modest person and didn't really think much of it. Struggling
with being more assertive seems astoundingly common among
new MT's, guess I'll number myself among those ranks as well
and work on my assertiveness skills. I'm getting better, but
it's always a learning experience. 🙂

Thanks for the advice to both of you. I really appreciate
it. I agree on the confidentiality, thanks for confirming
and validating my own feelings on that too. 🙂

Chey

"Cloud Burst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:25:00 -0600, "Chey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

YOU should leave the room, then KNOCK before reentering,
WAIT for a reply from him, then ASK if he's under the
sheets before opening the door the rest of the way and
coming in.

And make sure the question you ask through the door
doesn't have a yes/no answer...I never realized that I
have a bad habit of responding to a knock with a "yes?"
(and may not have heard any speech through the
door)...nothing has ever resulted from that but I do warn
any new therapist that I see.

"Bob Eldred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You need to lighten up. You are in the body business and,
over time you

will

Quoted message said:

see thousands of bodies, and all their parts. You may be
placed in various possibly compromising situations from
time to time. If you don't like the human body or are
afraid of a zipper unzipping what are you doing in the
massage business? You need to get use to this stuff and
just shrug it off, it's going to happen some of the time.
In a situation like you described, you need to keep doing
your prep, make no comment then get on with the

be

Quoted message said:

straight about it and matter of factly say you don't do
that or offer that service. Don't be insulting, supprised
or shocked, just say no. Do not internalize it or worry
about it. Be an adult and handle the situation

like

Quoted message said:

an adult. In a year or two nothing should supprise
you. Bob

I agree (and wonder why some people go into a profession
that deals with the body if it embarrasses or upsets them).
What I'm about to say must've had something to do with all
those years in California, but don't equate nudity with lewd
behavior...if the person in question doesn't DO anything to

comfortable with his/her body and nothing more. Sounds like
a little "de-sensitization" is in order for the OP so she
doesn't torture herself every time something like this
happens and I'm sure it will from time to time. I think she
handled it perfectly the first time EXCEPT to dwell on it
afterwards.

Chey said:

Thanks for being so suportive and understanding. It means
a lot. 🙂

To those who were less than supportive but instead decided
that the answer was to insult, harangue, attempt to
undermine my confidence, or otherwise throw their weight
around, I'm sure we (students in general) are all grateful
for your service and advice as we strive to be just as
wonderful and perfect as you must have been when you first
began. And yes we all know that the best teachers are
those who have nothing positive or comforting to offer.
Unfortunately not all of us are capable of knowing
everything right from the start and have the unfortunate
condition called humanity that nurtures within us the
predilection toward making mistakes, through the course of
which we hope to learn. In time, perhaps we will be one
tenth the people that you are and until then we'll just
have to keep on trying and admiring your shining glorious
perfection. 🙂

Chey

I just read the whole thread, again. Who wasn't supportive?
Even my post was supportive and I'm a Troll! I think you
received nothing but support and a lot of great replies.

You really need to relax a little. And go out and enjoy your
new vocation.

Sincerely,

Ben D.

You're going to be a good practitioner. I can see that
already. You're already seeing that there's a lot more
involved than just bodywork.

Chey <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

First, thanks so much for the supportive replies, we all
struggle with different things as we go through this and
I've found one of mine I

suppose.

Quoted message said:

It's all about learning, growng, and getting better in
time. 🙂

After thinking about this for another day I think that
perhaps it bothered me because of a few reasons that had
nothing whatever to do with the situation. (Therefore I
need to work on not letting those things influence the
way I feel about a session.) I had not met him before
(he lives

several

Quoted message said:

hours away and she usually goes to his place rather than
he to hers.) And

I

Quoted message said:

disliked the way he treated her and the comments he has
made to her in the past (when asked if he would like her
to go to Mexico with him when he

went

Quoted message said:

on business he said to her "Why would I take sand to the
beach?"😉

Obviously I should NEVER allow any outside predjudices
influence my work

and

Quoted message said:

I thought that I had set that aside, and I likely had...
right up to that point where it crossed my (heretofore
unknown) comfort line. Maybe it

would

Quoted message said:

not have bothered me at all had I not already been
predjudiced against him somewhat. My problem, not his. And
obviously I need to work on that.

Thankfully I have no problems with the human body and
nudity, and probably would have been bothered much less
had it been nearly anyone else. Hrm. Personal flaw, I'll
work on that too. :-/

Thanks for being so suportive and understanding. It means
a lot. 🙂

To those who were less than supportive but instead decided
that the answer was to insult, harangue, attempt to
undermine my confidence, or otherwise throw their weight
around, I'm sure we (students in general) are all grateful
for your service and advice as we strive to be just as
wonderful and perfect as you must have been when you first
began. And yes we all

know

Quoted message said:

that the best teachers are those who have nothing positive
or comforting

to

Quoted message said:

offer. Unfortunately not all of us are capable of knowing
everything right from the start and have the unfortunate
condition called humanity that nurtures within us the
predilection toward making mistakes, through the course
of which we hope to learn. In time, perhaps we will be
one tenth

the

Quoted message said:

people that you are and until then we'll just have to
keep on trying and admiring your shining glorious
perfection. 🙂

Chey

ben; you do have some insight there!
"Ben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chey said:

Hello all,

I haven't posted before though I read often. I'm a
confirmed lurker.

Last

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

night however I encountered a situation which I would
like to get your thoughts on.

To preface, I'm a student at the present time and am at
a point where I

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to go out and do a certain number of practice sessions
on friends and family. Last night I went to a dear
friends house to do my first back-to-back double
session. One for her and thenone for the man she's
seeing right afterward.

The situation is thus... I had finished doing the
massage for my friend

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was about to begin the massage for her boyfriend. He
came into the room

(I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had set up in her den) and I did all the usual things I
always do, asked

him

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

several questions and talked to him about massage,
talked about

disrobing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and how he could do so as little or as much as he felt
comfortable with,

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

him select his music, and so on. Then when all that was
done I handed

him

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the sheet, gestured at the restroom and said 'You can
disrobe in there.'

He set the sheet aside and began to unbutton his shirt.
This gave me

pause

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but I'm married and I know that my husband has the
tendency to undo his shirt on the way to changing in the
bedroom or even remove it in one

room

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

then go to another room to remove pants and the like so
though I paused

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

assumed that was what he was doing. Thusly when the
shirt came off I

offered

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to take it for him so his hands would be free to pick up
the sheet and

go in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the other room to disrobe.

I turned around to fold the shirt and lay it in the arm
of the sofa and

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

heard an unmistakable sound behind me. A zipper of
course. I heard the rustle of things coming off and I
froze a moment, unsure how to proceed.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

said over my shoulder without turning around 'The
restroom is right

trough

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there if you'd prefer.' He didn't answer. I heard the
rustle again and unless he was wearing more layers than
are normal he had to be nude

behind

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

me. I busied myself with my bag, and rearranged my CD's,
etc. I saw the sheet get picked up out of the corner
of my eye and then asked if he was ready and he said
yes so I turned and thankfully he was wrapped in the
sheet.

The massage proceeded as normal, and I never got a vibe
that he was

hitting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on me or otherwise being 'fresh'. I went ahead with the
massage because

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

friend was right in the other room and I didn't feel
threatened as we weren't alone in the house. But even
so, it left me with two

questions...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1) How should I have reacted? What should I have done
differently? What would others do in this situation?

and

2) Is it a breach of client confidentiality to tell my
friend about

this?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sincerely bothered, as her friend, that he would
pull a stunt like

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with a massage therapist but also that he would make an
attempt at

disrobing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in front of one of her friends in her house with her
there. If it were

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

husband obviously I would want to know that he had
behaved this way. But

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really sensitive to client confidentiality and would
never want to

breach

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that sacred trust.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thank you well in advance for any suggestions you have
to ease my mind.

This

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really bothered me to the point that I haven't slept
much because of it.

Kind regards,

Chey

--
'In wildness is the preservation of the world.'
- Henry David Thoreau, "Walking"

Dang Gurlfrend,

Chill!

You said yourself that the client didn't behave
inappropriately during the massage. That seems supportive
of the idea that he wasn't up to anything with the
disrobing ritual. He probably was confused about why you
would ask him to leave and he probably didn't care about
you seeing him naked. Or he's an ass looking for a chance
to show you his stuff. Who knows.

Why the heck are you telling the client to go to another
room to undress? You should step out while the client
undresses. You should have given him some privacy. He's
not there to serve you; you're there to serve him. It's
your job to make him comfortable, not his job to make you
comfortable.

What's to tell? Hi, I just wanted to let you know that
your boyfriend undressed in front of me, the MT, before
getting his massage. Oh, that's right, people get naked
for their massages if they don't have nakedness hang ups.
It's part of what makes a massage special: an

Quoted message said:

Relax and enjoy your future vocation; we're all naked
under our clothes, some of us just look better naked
than others.

Ben

Chey said:

<<Why were you having them

Quoted message said:

disrobe in the bathroom and coming into the massage area
wrapped in the sheet anyways? Why not YOU go into the
bathroom and let them undress and get under the sheet.>>

...have them disrobe in another room from the main massage
room, return wrapped in the sheet whenever they are ready
*and then I help them onto the table to prevent accidents
or injury*. So far, several of the people who I've worked
on in these practice sessions have liked it that way
better than the way their therapist does it and has
commented on it which surprised me... so I've kept to it.
They felt more secure getting on the table this way and I
was there to help protect their modesty as well so their
hands were free to support their getting on the table.

He needn't protect his modesty at all if he's the only one
in the room...

But the security issue is interesting, it never even
occurred to me that clients might have difficulty getting
onto the table. Thanks for the food for thought,

Scott

"Scott Kurland, RMT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chey said:

<<Why were you having them

Quoted message said:

disrobe in the bathroom and coming into the massage
area wrapped in the sheet anyways? Why not YOU go into
the bathroom and let them undress and get under the
sheet.>>

...have them disrobe in another room from the main
massage room, return wrapped in the sheet whenever they
are ready *and then I help them onto the table to
prevent accidents or injury*. So far, several of the
people who I've worked on in these practice sessions
have liked it that way better than the way their
therapist does it and has commented on it which
surprised me... so I've kept to it. They felt more
secure getting on the table this way and I was there to
help protect their modesty as well so their hands were
free to support their getting on the table.

He needn't protect his modesty at all if he's the only one
in the room...

But the security issue is interesting, it never even
occurred to me that clients might have difficulty getting
onto the table. Thanks for the food

for

Quoted message said:

thought,

Scott

It is a rare client that will have a hard time getting on
the table. I have a client in a wheelchair with no use of
her legs and she gets on the table by herself. All I do is
put her chair where she needs it then move it out of the
way. She doesn't even want help.

If a client does have a hard time, then of course help is
necessary.

IMO I think I would be more concerned with a client tripping
on the sheet as they tried to make their way to the table. A
bit of an unorthodox approach. It might be a better idea to
ask the client on intake if they require any assistance
getting on or off the table.

Quoted message said:

But the security issue is interesting, it never even
occurred to me that clients might have difficulty getting
onto the table. Thanks for the food

for

Quoted message said:

thought,

Scott

I deal with a lot of those "rare" people. Get someone with
fibromyalgia, and plan on them needing help onto the table.
I see the table being more for my convenience, and I'm very
accomodative. So I tend to not use a table, but rather a
couch with plenty of pillows, a bed, etc. After all, I'm
generally doing massage training, I've got the couple right
there, and I'm showing them how to make their situation work
for them. So I anticipate balance, strength, and mobility
problems. By anticipating them, they tend to not be much
problem when they do show up.

Tiffany <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is a rare client that will have a hard time getting on
the table. I

have

Quoted message said:

a client in a wheelchair with no use of her legs and she
gets on the table by herself. All I do is put her chair
where she needs it then move it out

of

Quoted message said:

the way. She doesn't even want help.

If a client does have a hard time, then of course help is
necessary.

Tiffany said:

"Scott Kurland, RMT" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chey said:

<<Why were you having them
> disrobe in the bathroom and coming into the massage
> area wrapped in the sheet anyways? Why not YOU go into
> the bathroom and let them undress and get under the
> sheet.>>

...have them disrobe in another room from the main
massage room, return wrapped in the sheet whenever they
are ready *and then I help them onto the table to
prevent accidents or injury*. So far, several of the
people who I've worked on in these practice sessions
have liked it that way better than the way their
therapist does it and has commented on it which
surprised me... so I've kept to it. They felt more
secure getting on the table this way and I was there to
help protect their modesty as well so their hands were
free to support their getting on the table.

He needn't protect his modesty at all if he's the only
one in the room...

But the security issue is interesting, it never even
occurred to me that clients might have difficulty getting
onto the table. Thanks for the food for thought,

Scott

It is a rare client that will have a hard time getting on
the table.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

I have a client in a wheelchair with no use of her legs
and she gets on the table by herself. All I do is put her
chair where she needs it then move it out of the way. She
doesn't even want help.

Quoted message said:

If a client does have a hard time, then of course help is
necessary.

I should've thought of that.