outside knee pain help

Quoted message said:

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to make
a difference.

My

Quoted message said:

next step is going to be to rotate the cleat inwards and
add about 2-3mm

of

Quoted message said:

pedal washers to that side, allowing the foot to take its
natural outward pointing position. I may also move the
cleat back on the shoe.

Try moving the cleat back first. It can effect a miraculous
"cure" for many. And it's very easy to do, requiring no
improvisation of any kind.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Kyle.B.H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Wcbwc.4953$4S5.696@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

Looking for some advice on some outside of knee pain I've
been having recently. Here's the relevant info:

- Outside rear of right knee, maybe even the upper right
corner of my

calf.

Quoted message said:

I don't believe this is an ITB problem. This seems about
an inch and a

half

Quoted message said:

lower and one inch further back than an ITB problem would
be, and I have

no

Quoted message said:

pain running or walking.

- Starts a few miles into the ride and progresses. Feels
fine once I stop pedaling.

- My right foot likes to point out, and for the most part
I let it.

- I'm using SPD's with some float. Switched from Looks
late last season.

- Took 2 weeks off and pain came back on first ride after
about 15 miles. Just took another 3 days off and pain
came back after about 4 miles.

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to make
a difference.

My

Quoted message said:

next step is going to be to rotate the cleat inwards and
add about 2-3mm

of

Quoted message said:

pedal washers to that side, allowing the foot to take its
natural outward pointing position. I may also move the
cleat back on the shoe.

Any other suggestions? Anyone have similar pain?

Thx,

Kyle

Kyle.B.H said:

Looking for some advice on some outside of knee pain I've
been having recently. Here's the relevant info:

- Outside rear of right knee, maybe even the upper right
corner of my calf. I don't believe this is an ITB
problem. This seems about an inch and a half lower and
one inch further back than an ITB problem would be, and I
have no pain running or walking.

- Starts a few miles into the ride and progresses. Feels
fine once I stop pedaling.

- My right foot likes to point out, and for the most part I
let it.

- I'm using SPD's with some float. Switched from Looks late
last season.

- Took 2 weeks off and pain came back on first ride after
about 15 miles. Just took another 3 days off and pain
came back after about 4 miles.

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to
make a difference. My next step is going to be to rotate
the cleat inwards and add about 2-3mm of pedal washers
to that side, allowing the foot to take its natural
outward pointing position. I may also move the cleat
back on the shoe.

Any other suggestions? Anyone have similar pain?

Thx,

Kyle

Dear Kyle,

Talk to your friendly local orthopedic surgeon, or at least
to a doctor who actually studied all those tangled ligaments
and tendons and can manipulate your leg and knee while
watching to see when you wince.

Sometimes they even take x-rays.

Things may be getting worse, since it ain't normal for one
foot to stick out to the side.

Good luck,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Things may be getting worse, since it ain't normal for one
foot to stick out to the side.

Carl: I've fit so many people over the years, and seen so
many interesting things, I don't think I could tell you
what's "normal" anymore. People aren't anywhere near as
symmetrical as I once thought, with one arm longer, or a leg
shorter, or hip sockets placed a bit differently side to
side. But somehow people have adapted over the years and
gotten along just fine.

Also, one of the more interesting things you find is that
people who have significant-enough differences to cause them
trouble off the bike often find very little issue when
riding. They expect to, but it doesn't (always) happen.
Probably has something to do with the manner in which your
hips can rock a bit on the saddle (in terms of leg length
differences).

And finally, my feet pretty much point the same direction...
but few would say I'm normal.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

In article Wcbwc.4953$4S5.696@attbi_s52 said:

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to make
a difference. My next step is going to be to rotate the
cleat inwards and add about 2-3mm of pedal washers to that
side, allowing the foot to take its natural outward
pointing position.

This statement makes it sound like your foot is currently
not able to move in its desired range of motion. Trying to
correct toe-in/toe-out foot position by forcing it into a
position you wish for can be a recipe for trouble. If you
wish your foot pointed straight ahead and adjust the cleat
to make it so, the first thing to do is listen to your body
and undo that.

If you have any way to achieve the position you had with
last year's pedals I would revert. Making more random
changes to guess at a solution may simply create more
problems - as bad as it feels, it would be worse if you
added another problem on top of it.

If going back to the Looks is the easiest way to solve the
problem, I'd do it.

Also worthwhile to get a sanity check from a fitter with an
experienced eye to make sure something isn't goofy.

Kyle.B.H said:

Looking for some advice on some outside of knee pain I've
been having recently. Here's the relevant info:

- Outside rear of right knee, maybe even the upper right
corner of my calf. I don't believe this is an ITB
problem. This seems about an inch and a half lower and
one inch further back than an ITB problem would be, and
I have no pain running or walking.

This sounds like it could be tendinitis of the biceps
femoris or popliteus, from looking through Andy Pruitt's e-
book. He describes:

SYMPTOMS Pain on the outer side of the knee about one inch
below the middle of the joint and slightly above the bony
protuberance.

CAUSES
* A too-high saddle or riding a fixed-gear (track) bike.

* Bow-legged people often suffer from this problem.

* Pedals with excessive float make the problem worse because
the biceps femoris and popliteal tendons have to work hard
to stabilize the resulting excessive tibial rotation.

TREATMENT
* Apply ice as many as three times a day for 15-20 minutes
each time.

* Take a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID)
with food.

* Lower the saddle about 3 mm.

* Switch to a pedal system with limited or no float.

IF THESE REMEDIES DON'T WORK

* Because biceps femoris tendinitis is often caused by
riding a fixed-gear (track) bike, changing to a bike with
a freewheel often alleviates the problem. While riding a
fixed gear, the hamstrings are used to decelerate, putting
them under load and sometimes irritating the biceps
femoris tendon.

"Kyle.B.H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Wcbwc.4953$4S5.696@attbi_s52>...

Quoted message said:

Looking for some advice on some outside of knee pain I've
been having recently. Here's the relevant info:

- Outside rear of right knee, maybe even the upper right
corner of my calf. I don't believe this is an ITB
problem. This seems about an inch and a half lower and
one inch further back than an ITB problem would be, and
I have no pain running or walking.

- Starts a few miles into the ride and progresses. Feels
fine once I stop pedaling.

- My right foot likes to point out, and for the most part
I let it.

- I'm using SPD's with some float. Switched from Looks
late last season.

- Took 2 weeks off and pain came back on first ride after
about 15 miles. Just took another 3 days off and pain
came back after about 4 miles.

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to
make a difference. My next step is going to be to rotate
the cleat inwards and add about 2-3mm of pedal washers
to that side, allowing the foot to take its natural
outward pointing position. I may also move the cleat
back on the shoe.

Any other suggestions? Anyone have similar pain?

Thx,

Kyle

I had similar pain a number of years ago, with a right foot
that wants to point out, and solved it by going with pedals
that had lots of float and putting pedal washers on that
side, which got the pedal a little further outboard. I found
that free float worked better for me and currently use
Speedplay Frog pedals with no problem. I also liked
Speedplay X/2 pedals.

When I tried SPD's for a ride, even with the float cleat and
minimum tension, I had problems. I switched back to
Speedplays and my knee pain is now a memory.

Kyle.B.H said:

Any other suggestions? Anyone have similar pain?

ask an ortho doc. this sounds like the symptoms that i had
from a torn meniscus.

a good ortho doc will send you to a physical therapist who
will do some diagnostic exercises with you to help narrow
down the problem. if it appears likely that it's a cartilege
or bone issue, the doc will probably want to MRI your knee.

Quoted message said:

- My right foot likes to point out, and for the most part
I let it.

Me too...I use pedal extenders and Kore Platform pedals. My
right foot points out because of a bad hip. I tried
Speedplay Frogs but they didn't give my foot enough freedom.

I also recommend seeing an Orthopedic doctor. I thought
that I had a injured groin muscle until an orthopedic type
did an X-ray.

bikescor.comknee.htmOpen ↗

pacelineproducts.comPedalSOpen ↗
pacers.htm

oups.google.com/groups?q=kneesaver+pedal&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&c2coff=1&selm=9cat6v08ki2vm3a1r0p4g5cfgb96330371%404ax.-
com&rnum=8

Also google "q-factor"