Roundabouts - turning right

Katanga-Man said:

Guys, What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn
right at an island (i.e. third exit) and the road
approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite within my
rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right
and then take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from
the roundabout? This seems eminently reasonable to me. I
am not getting in this lane half a mile from the
roundabout since this would slow the traffic down.
However, to be able to get into the right hand lane to
turn right can be a difficult so cyclists need to commence
their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in
protest from the cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter? Am I being
reasonable?

I would tend to take control of the left lane and control
the lane on the outside of the roundabout until I reached
the exit. That avoids getting mixed up with lane changing
and tends to prevent cars trying to join the roundabout as
you cycle past the entry. I do this frequently on a major
A-road/motorway roundabout without any problems. YMMV

Tony

Katanga-Man said:

Guys, What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn
right at an island (i.e. third exit) and the road
approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite within my
rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right
and then take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from
the roundabout? This seems eminently reasonable to me. I
am not getting in this lane half a mile from the
roundabout since this would slow the traffic down.
However, to be able to get into the right hand lane to
turn right can be a difficult so cyclists need to commence
their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in
protest from the cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter? Am I being
reasonable?

KM (aka Steve)

Yes, I think you are reasonable.

But buy John Franklin's book, 'Cyclecraft' for advice on
this and loads of other situations..

His comment on multi-lane roundabouts:

"As you approach a roundabout on a busy road, make your
presence known early by occupying the primary riding
position. In general, you should start this as soon as you
pass the advance 'Roundabout Ahead' sign, but on highspeed
roads, where signing distances are greater, wait until you
are about 100 metres from the junction, though earlier if
you are turning right ....... Turning right at a multilane
roundabout is more difficult .... It needs great care,
confidence and, preferably, the ability to attain a sprint
speed of about 20mph .... Approach the roundabout in the
middle of the right-hand lane .... Normally, you should not
leave sufficient room on your right for anyone to pass ...
Always make the most of others for protection at any busy
roundabout ... Once on the circulatory road, ride to the
left of the centre of the righthand lane until you are
opposite the entry before your exit. Then spiral out of the
roundabout in a gradual curve ... finally adopting the
primary riding position on the exit road. It is usually best
not to signal right on the roundabout, but do signal left
clearly before you begin to cycle out of it."

Cyclecraft TSO ISBN 0 11 702051 6
--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "He had delusions of
adequacy." - Walter Kerr www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Katanga-Man said:

Guys, What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn
right at an island (i.e. third exit) and the road
approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite within my
rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right
and then take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from
the roundabout? This seems eminently reasonable to me. I
am not getting in this lane half a mile from the
roundabout since this would slow the traffic down.
However, to be able to get into the right hand lane to
turn right can be a difficult so cyclists need to commence
their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in
protest from the cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter?

I think you mean that the road approaching has two lanes
marked in the direction you're going - whether or not it's a
dual carriageway (ie, with a central barrier/reservation) is
irrelevant.

How long is a piece of string?

100m may or may not be reasonable depending how fast you're
cycling and how fast the motor cars are going and how big
the gaps are.

Personally, I'd say that the deciding factor for me is the
gaps in the RH approach lane motor traffic. Worst case
scenario: fast, heavy traffic. Then, if, glancing over my
shoulder, I saw a big gap I could usefully move into
anything up to 200 m out or so, I'd signal and move into it,
claiming the lane, being nice and considerate by bringing up
my speed to a brisker pace, and making damn sure my arm was
hung out in a turning right signal to give the following
driver the idea. Once they've slowed up behind you and
matched your speed, they're protecting you by default, you
can drop the signal and deal with the roundabout. If you get
a dimwit toot and undertake, keep the speed up and the
signal out until you get a less dimwitted driver behind you
doing the protection.

Best case scenario, slow/stationary traffic or very sparse
traffic; I'd happily wait until a few yards before the give-
way lines before moving over.

Otherwise, YMMV.

But do read Cyclecraft by Franklin instead of paying
attention to the deranged ramblings of uk.rec.cycing
posters. :-)

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Katanga-Man
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Guys, What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn
right at an island (i.e. third exit) and the road
approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite within my
rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right
and then take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from
the roundabout? This seems eminently reasonable to me. I
am not getting in this lane half a mile from the
roundabout since this would slow the traffic down.
However, to be able to get into the right hand lane to
turn right can be a difficult so cyclists need to commence
their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in
protest from the cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter? Am I being
reasonable?

Ok, I'm not really a proper cyclist, I don't generally go
anything like as fast as is often mentioned here and usually
do stay right over in the left hand edge of the road so
other people can get past.

However, handling roundabouts, or lane-splitting
junctions, IMO, depends on the speed and volume of the
other traffic. If the roundabout is fairly quiet and/or
the traffic is generally moving slowly, then take the
right hand lane, ride in the middle of it, stay in the
centre of the inside lane round the roundabout itself,
approaching the exit you want signal left clearly and
swing off in a steady line that takes you into the left
lane of the exit road, all the time keeping a sharp
lookout for anyone trying to pass on the left.

On the other hand if the roundabout is a blur of vehicles
all doing 40+ and the roads are busy, get off the bike and
use whatever pedestrian facilities exist to walk it past the
roundabout and then get back on.

Legally and morally you have every right to use the roads in
the same way as a motor vehicle driver, but that's not a lot
of consolation when you realise the driver of the 38 ton
truck coming across from the left hasn't seen you and it's
already too late to get out of her way...

--
- Pyromancer.
- inkubus-sukkubus.co.ukinkubus-sukkubus.co.ukOpen ↗ <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- littlematchgirl.co.uklittlematchgirl.co.ukOpen ↗ <-- Electronic Metal!
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Revival.

Katanga-Man said:

Guys, What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn
right at an island (i.e. third exit) and the road
approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite within my
rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right
and then take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from
the roundabout? This seems eminently reasonable to me. I
am not getting in this lane half a mile from the
roundabout since this would slow the traffic down.
However, to be able to get into the right hand lane to
turn right can be a difficult so cyclists need to commence
their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in
protest from the cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter? Am I being
reasonable?

KM (aka Steve)

Absolutely correct Iain

in message <[email hidden]>, Katanga-Man

(') said:

What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn right at
an island
(i.e.third exit) and the road approaching is a dual
carriage way. Am I quite within my rights to use my
arm to signal that I want to turn right and then take
the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from the
roundabout?

Yes, this is not only the correct but the only safe
thing to do.

Quoted message said:

However, to be able to get into the right hand lane to
turn right can be a difficult so cyclists need to commence
their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in
protest from the cars behind you.

Well, tough titties, frankly. You slow them down by a tiny
fraction, and in doing so substantially reduce your risk of
getting killed. It would be most unreasonable to expect you
to do anything else.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

X-no-archive: No, I'm not *that* naive.

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Legally and morally you have every right to use the roads
in the same way as a motor vehicle driver, but that's not
a lot of consolation when you realise the driver of the 38
ton truck coming across from the left hasn't seen you and
it's already too late to get out of her way...

The 38 tonne truck may look menacing but that rep in the
vauxhall is the one you need to watch!

Following on from Katanga-Man's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Guys, What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn
right at an island (i.e. third exit) and the road
approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite within
my rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn
right and then

(1) Be in control of the situation. This means correct
positioning to _control others_. It also means being in
the right gear, and accelerating smartly to claim your
patch of road.

(2) You can be in any lane you like. It is up to you to look
after yourself. It is up to others to share the road
safely and peacefully with you.

(3) A handy technique (as per Cyclecraft) is to use a
vehicle on your right as you enter as a shield.

(4) Think where traffic that is joining with you is going.
You're probably best off picking the entry lane that
gives you direct access to the 'middle' of the circular
segment of road (eg middle lane of a 3-lane roundabout)
without cars overtaking you on your left except to
accelerate out at an exit. The more you get sucked
towards the centre of the roundabout the more lanes you
have to cross back out again which is very tricky.

In practice I tend to approach roughly in 'the middle' of
the entry regardless of lanes/width unless I'm definitely
better off on the left.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the icecream business was
liquidated [email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk/wcc.htm Witham Cycling Campaign
www.eminent.demon.co.uk/rides East Anglian Pub cycle rides