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Single speed project starting point

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Cycling Equipment
Published
4 June 2004
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7 June 2004
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Trg
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  1. I saw a notice for a bike auction nearby and thought I'd get
    something to turn into a singlespeed (not fixed gear).

    I'll be using it for around town trips. What should I be
    looking for as far as a starting point? A mountain bike, an
    old "10-speed" type bike? What about specific features to
    look for or avoid? How about the wheels, anything to avoid,
    or search for?

    BTW, Yes I've been to seen
    sheldonbrown.comsinglespeed.html.

    Tom "That's too much detailed info at this stage, but will
    come in handy one the conversion starts" in Paris

  2. trg said:

    I saw a notice for a bike auction nearby and thought I'd
    get something to turn into a singlespeed (not fixed gear).

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be using it for around town trips. What should I be
    looking for as far as a starting point? A mountain bike,
    an old "10-speed" type bike? What about specific features
    to look for or avoid? How about the wheels, anything to
    avoid, or search for?

    If you're thinking of the MBD bourse aux vélos next weekend,
    you may find prices high and choice limited:

    mdb-idf.orgbourse 2004.html

    If you're not in a big hurry to buy something, you're likely
    to find better choice and far better prices at the grande
    bourse at Baillet-en-France in November.

    Having said that, just about any bike can be turned into a
    singlespeed without much difficulty. For robustness and
    widespread availability of spare parts, a cheap steel
    mountainbike (Decathlon Rockrider 520 is a common example in
    Paris) is hard to beat. Find an older one without vertical
    dropouts if you want to get away without a chain-tensioner.

    For style points, I'd be very tempted to look out for a
    French 'Porteur' style bike from Motobecane, Peugeot,
    LeJeune, etc - hammered aluminium mudguards, a big, square
    rack over the front wheel, dynamo lights, 650B wheels, reverse-
    pull brake levers ...

    blackbirdsf.orgvelos.html

    blackbirdsf.org1950s p
    orteur.jpg

    blackbirdsf.orgmotobecane.html

    These (in common with most older French bikes) have the
    disadvantage of some idiosyncratic parts (obsolete
    French thread sizes, for example) but are simple,
    robust, and charming.

    James Thomson

  3. James Thomson said:
    trg said:

    I saw a notice for a bike auction nearby and thought
    I'd get something to turn into a singlespeed (not
    fixed gear).

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be using it for around town trips. What should I be
    looking for as far as a starting point? A mountain bike,
    an old "10-speed" type bike? What about specific features
    to look for or avoid? How about the wheels, anything to
    avoid, or search for?

    If you're thinking of the MBD bourse aux vélos next
    weekend, you may find prices high and choice limited:

    mdb-idf.orgbourse 2004.html

    If you're not in a big hurry to buy something, you're
    likely to find better choice and far better prices at the
    grande bourse at Baillet-en-France in November.

    Having said that, just about any bike can be turned into a
    singlespeed without much difficulty. For robustness and
    widespread availability of spare parts, a cheap steel
    mountainbike (Decathlon Rockrider 520 is a common example
    in Paris) is hard to beat. Find an older one without
    vertical dropouts if you want to get away without a chain-
    tensioner.

    For style points, I'd be very tempted to look out for a
    French 'Porteur' style bike from Motobecane, Peugeot,
    LeJeune, etc - hammered aluminium mudguards, a big, square
    rack over the front wheel, dynamo lights, 650B wheels, reverse-
    pull brake levers ...

    blackbirdsf.orgvelos.html

    blackbirdsf.org1950s por
    teur.jpg

    blackbirdsf.orgmotobecane.html

    These (in common with most older French bikes) have the
    disadvantage of some idiosyncratic parts (obsolete French
    thread sizes, for example) but are simple, robust, and
    charming.

    James Thomson

    Yes, I was thinking of the Bourse next weekend. I wasn't set
    on buying something (already have 3 bikes and a 37m2
    apartment 🙂 ), but none of my bikes are ones I feel
    comfortable with leaving outside exposed to the elements and
    cons. I was thinking that an old 10 speed would attract les
    attention than a VTT and sell for less.

    Well, I won't get my hopes up.

    Thanks

  4. "trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I saw a notice for a bike auction nearby and thought I'd
    get something to turn into a singlespeed (not fixed gear).

    I'll be using it for around town trips. What should I be
    looking for as far as a starting point? A mountain bike,
    an old "10-speed" type bike? What about specific features
    to look for or avoid? How about the wheels, anything to
    avoid, or search for?

    BTW, Yes I've been to seen
    sheldonbrown.comsinglespeed.html.

    I built a single-speed "town" bike around an old Raliegh
    frame that was given to me. Since I have a garage full of
    odd bike parts, it wasn't tough to make a light beater.

    IMO, look for these features: old steel "10-speed"
    horizontal dropouts freewheel (not cassette) rear hub a
    frame that fits when equipped with straight (rather than
    drop) handlebars. removable chainrings

    avoid these: frames with tight clearances vertical dropouts
    if possible 26" wheels (unless you're quite short) Oddball
    collectible or restorable bikes bikes with proprietary parts
    (the Raliegh's fork was missing headset parts, which
    required a fork replacement to fit a standard headset)

  5. trg said:

    I saw a notice for a bike auction nearby and thought I'd
    get something to turn into a singlespeed (not fixed gear).

    I'll be using it for around town trips. What should I be
    looking for as far as a starting point? A mountain bike,
    an old "10-speed" type bike? What about specific features
    to look for or avoid? How about the wheels, anything to
    avoid, or search for?

    Basically, anything with "horizontal" dropouts for the rear
    wheel, and which fits you reasonably well. Old 10 speeds can
    often be had for free, even fairly nice ones, and often need
    no new parts other than a single speed freewheel or track
    cog to turn into a single speed or fixed gear. You can find
    old MTBs with horizontal dropouts, but old road bikes are
    easier to find that meet this criteria.

    I don't like the MTB position and I hate flat bars, so I'd
    opt for an old road bike. But your preferences in this
    regard might be different. Of course you can put drop bars
    on an MTB (which I've done) or flat bars on a road bike
    (which I've never done).

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, Yes I've been to seen
    sheldonbrown.comsinglespeed.html.

    Tom "That's too much detailed info at this stage, but will
    come in handy one the conversion starts" in Paris

  6. --On Friday, June 04, 2004 2:33 PM -0500 Tim McNamara

    Quoted message said:

    I don't like the MTB position and I hate flat bars, so I'd
    opt for an old road bike. But your preferences in this
    regard might be different. Of course you can put drop bars
    on an MTB (which I've done) or flat bars on a road bike
    (which I've never done).

    drop bars on an mtb eh? got any pictures? I'm intrigued...

    Mike Mechanical Engineering 2006, Carnegie Mellon University
    Remove nospam to reply.

  7. Tim McNamara said:

    Old 10 speeds can often be had for free, even fairly
    nice ones,

    I haven't found that to be the case in Paris. In fact, I
    haven't found it to be the case anywhere outside the
    United States.

    Quoted message said:

    and often need no new parts other than a single speed
    freewheel or track cog to turn into a single speed or
    fixed gear.

    Another local difference is that anything old enough to be
    cheap is likely to be old enough to use obsolete French
    standards, making the sourcing of spare parts more tricky.

    Quoted message said:

    You can find old MTBs with horizontal dropouts, but old
    road bikes are easier to find that meet this criterion.

    That's true, but since Tom doesn't want to ride fixed, it
    needn't be a criterion.

    James Thomson

  8. Jeff Wills said:

    IMO, look for these features: old steel "10-speed"
    horizontal dropouts freewheel (not cassette) rear hub

    Cassette hubs are easily adapted to singlespeed use with a
    handful of spacers from a worn out cassette. They allow far
    simpler chainline adjustment than freewheel hubs, although
    they can't be respaced and de-dished as easily.

    Quoted message said:

    a frame that fits when equipped with straight (rather than
    drop) handlebars. removable chainrings

    avoid these: frames with tight clearances vertical
    dropouts if possible 26" wheels (unless you're quite
    short)

    There are several 26" sizes. The 559mm MTB/VTT standard is
    very widely available, there's an enormoous choice of tyres
    in this size, and MTB wheels are generally very robust. 650B
    is still widely available in France, thought the range of
    choice and quality is far smaller than in 559. 650C is also
    more widely available in France than elsewhere, but rarely
    seen outside the smaller frame sizes.

    James Thomson

  9. Prometheus said:

    drop bars on an mtb eh? got any pictures? I'm intrigued...

    tinyurl.com3y34w

    tinyurl.com2wrvw

    homepage.mac.comPhotoAlbum20.html

    oldmountainbikes.combikes.cgi

    James Thomson

  10. trg said:

    I wasn't set on buying something (already have 3 bikes and
    a 37m2 apartment 🙂 ), but none of my bikes are ones I
    feel comfortable with leaving outside exposed to the
    elements and cons. I was thinking that an old 10 speed
    would attract les attention than a VTT and sell for less.

    You're probably right on both counts, but of course a lot
    depends on what becomes available.

    James Thomson

  11. Prometheus <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<858170578.1086357293@[192.168.1.100]>...

    Quoted message said:

    --On Friday, June 04, 2004 2:33 PM -0500 Tim McNamara

    Quoted message said:

    I don't like the MTB position and I hate flat bars, so
    I'd opt for an old road bike. But your preferences in
    this regard might be different. Of course you can put
    drop bars on an MTB (which I've done) or flat bars on a
    road bike (which I've never done).

    drop bars on an mtb eh? got any pictures? I'm intrigued...

    How soon they forget. The '87 Bridgestone MB-1 came stock
    with DirtDrop handlebars, made by Nitto. Someone out
    there must have a picture (I didn't find anything with a
    quick search).

    Jeff

  12. "James Thomson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Tim McNamara said:

    Old 10 speeds can often be had for free, even fairly
    nice ones,

    I haven't found that to be the case in Paris. In fact, I
    haven't found it to be the case anywhere outside the
    United States.

    Here in Switzerland the only "fairly nice old ten-speeds"
    one sees are underneath commuters, locked on bike rack, and
    underneath hefty price tags in the secondhand stores.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and often need no new parts other than a single speed
    freewheel or track cog to turn into a single speed or
    fixed gear.

    Another local difference is that anything old enough to be
    cheap is likely to be old enough to use obsolete French
    standards, making the sourcing of spare parts more tricky.

    Don't the little Paris bike shops have whole bins of
    obsolete parts, like the village LBSs in England?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You can find old MTBs with horizontal dropouts, but old
    road bikes are easier to find that meet this criterion.

    That's true, but since Tom doesn't want to ride fixed, it
    needn't be a criterion.

    I think that was only the first nudge of many. One year we
    are being forced to ride recumbent, the next it's fixed, who
    knows what next year will bring?
    --
    Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

  13. [email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I saw a notice for a bike auction nearby and thought I'd
    get something to turn into a singlespeed (not fixed gear).

    I'll be using it for around town trips. What should I be
    looking for as far as a starting point? A mountain bike,
    an old "10-speed" type bike? What about specific features
    to look for or avoid? How about the wheels, anything to
    avoid, or search for?

    BTW, Yes I've been to seen
    sheldonbrown.comsinglespeed.html.

    Tom "That's too much detailed info at this stage, but will
    come in handy one the conversion starts" in Paris

    The best bet is probably to look for the best old bike
    available that fits you with an intact frame and horizontal
    dropouts. Road frames are generally preferable because
    they're more built for the purposes you probably want and
    are lighter at the same quality levels as comparable
    mountain bikes, but if you find a quality old mountain bike
    that's nice, fits you, is the right price, is in good shape
    and has horizontal dropouts (unless you want to use a
    tensioner), go for it. Concentrate on what will you fit you
    for the bike's intended purpose.

    Piles of random old used bikes available cheaply can seem to
    offer way more promise than they actually do - the ratio of
    department store bikes and overly trashed low-end shop-
    quality bikes to everything else is high, and only a fairly
    small minority of any random pile of bikes will fit any one
    person well anyway. If you add on to this the critera that
    the bike has to have decent wheels, you're in for even more
    of a challenge because most used bikes have wheels that are
    either completely trashed or in poor shape that won't stand
    up to being ridden - and pretty much no used bike has
    undamaged hubs. And this is to say nothing of other
    components, although you have some latitude there because
    you're doing a singlespeed conversion.

    Most random used bikes that are going to be put back into
    any kind of action really are best served by having new
    wheels built for them. Wheels on used bikes are just too
    crappy. Exceptions are definitely out there, and different
    riders put very different demands on wheels, but believe me
    that the general status quo is that the wheels on used bikes
    are spent if the bike is actually going to be ridden much in
    the future. For a single/fixed conversion, doing a good job
    of re-dishing and tensioning up a random old wheel that was
    built undertensioned without well-lubed spoke threads and
    nowadays likely has a warped rim is really a pretty similar
    amount of work to just building a new wheel, which can
    actually be done pretty cheaply. Old high-quality cheap
    freewheel hubs are all over the place. A whole new wheelset
    is often the best idea, although the front wheels on used
    bikes stand a much fairer chance of being able to get
    somewhat close to an acceptable state with just some typical
    truing than rears.

    Before you take any bike home, check the frame and fork for
    obvious sketchiness like cracks, buckling, bends, dents,
    paint chipping that indicates an impact, etc. There's really
    quite a bit to say about the skill of checking frames for
    damage without allowing anything to get past you, but the
    basics are to check all the joints thoroughly, and make sure
    the fork isn't bent.

    If it's a steel frame, you don't have to deal with worrying
    about relatively minor rear triangle misalignment at this
    point as long as you're resigned to either correcting it
    later yourself (read Sheldon's site for the details of doing
    this with string and a 2x4) or living with it. Keep in mind
    that frame misalignment will mess up your chainline if you
    set up the chainline in a way other than eyeballing
    it.

  14. Prometheus said:

    --On Friday, June 04, 2004 2:33 PM -0500 Tim McNamara

    Quoted message said:

    I don't like the MTB position and I hate flat bars, so
    I'd opt for an old road bike. But your preferences in
    this regard might be different. Of course you can put
    drop bars on an MTB (which I've done) or flat bars on a
    road bike (which I've never done).

    drop bars on an mtb eh? got any pictures? I'm intrigued...

    Somewhere I have some fuzzy pictures from a 'cross race. It
    was a Specialized M2 back in 1993. All I needed was a new
    stem, drop bars and some old brake levers, and bar end
    shifters. It worked great. John Tomac used to race MTB with
    drop bars. This could still be done quite readily, thanks to
    the DiaCompe 287V road lever being compatible with V-brakes.

  15. Mark South said:

    Don't the little Paris bike shops have whole bins of
    obsolete parts, like the village LBSs in England?

    The few bike shops I have been to in Paris were pretty up-to-
    date carbon fiber and titanium and aluminum joints. But this
    was last August and shops that might have better depth (such
    as Alex Singer and Rando-Cycles/Rando-Boutique) were closed
    for the holiday. That actually struck me as odd, especially
    for the two I named, since there was an influx of 3,000+
    randonneurs to the Paris area for PBP. You'd think those
    shops would have been open to capitalize on this. The French
    do not think like Americans, hey? Refreshing.

  16. James Thomson said:
    Tim McNamara said:

    Old 10 speeds can often be had for free, even fairly
    nice ones,

    I haven't found that to be the case in Paris. In fact, I
    haven't found it to be the case anywhere outside the
    United States.

    Wow, that's really interesting. Another post reports a
    similar situation in Switzerland. Difference in societies I
    guess, us American treating almost everything as disposable.
    Just goes to show that you can't judge the possibilities in
    one part of the world by the possibilities in another place.
    Around here, people give away those old ten speed that are
    gathering dust in a corner of the garage and haven't been
    ridden in over 20 years, or sell them for a few dollars at a
    garage sale.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and often need no new parts other than a single speed
    freewheel or track cog to turn into a single speed or
    fixed gear.

    Another local difference is that anything old enough to be
    cheap is likely to be old enough to use obsolete French
    standards, making the sourcing of spare parts more tricky.

    If I was in the Paris area, I'd hie myself over to
    Alex Singer as
    M. Csuka has an incredible depth of old parts- having been
    in business for over 60 years.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You can find old MTBs with horizontal dropouts, but old
    road bikes are easier to find that meet this criterion.

    That's true, but since Tom doesn't want to ride fixed, it
    needn't be a criterion.

    James Thomson

  17. Jeff Wills said:

    How soon they forget. The '87 Bridgestone MB-1 came stock
    with DirtDrop handlebars, made by Nitto. Someone out there
    must have a picture (I didn't find anything with a quick
    search).

    Here you go:

    unr.edubstoneMB11987.pdf

    That's a 1 Megabyte .pdf

    James Thomson

  18. Mark South said:

    Don't the little Paris bike shops have whole bins of
    obsolete parts, like the village LBSs in England?

    Not that I've found - in fact my impression is that there
    are relatively few long-established bike shops in intramural
    Paris. Tim mentioned Alex Singer (just outside Paris proper
    at Levallois-Peret), and another fair bet for old stock is
    Bicloune at rue Froment, who have found me French-threaded
    track sprockets, among other rarities.

    I'm not sure that the mythical English village LBS is any
    more real. The mountain bike boom, combined with the decline
    of the traditional bike-commuting classes shook up the
    British retail scene and either put a lot of the old shops
    out of business or forced them to modernise. While the MTB
    hasn't had quite the impact in France that it had in the UK,
    the big sports chains like Decathlon have made things tough
    for the smaller shops. I've only been in Paris for a couple
    of years, but I'm told that utility cycling was in terminal
    decline in Paris before the public transport strikes of the
    1990s. Many of the shops that cater to the new utility
    cyclists date from this period, and sell mainly Dutch bikes.

    James Thomson

  19. "James Thomson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mark South said:

    Don't the little Paris bike shops have whole bins of
    obsolete parts, like the village LBSs in England?

    Not that I've found - in fact my impression is that there
    are relatively few long-established bike shops in
    intramural Paris. Tim mentioned Alex Singer (just outside
    Paris proper at Levallois-Peret), and another fair bet for
    old stock is Bicloune at rue Froment, who have found me
    French-threaded track sprockets, among other rarities.

    Wow. I'm impressed that they knew what you were
    talking about.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure that the mythical English village LBS is any
    more real.

    They do exist. Infact, the classic example to me is in
    central Cambridge: University Cycles. The parts pile starts
    behind the counter and just keeps going.

    Quoted message said:

    The mountain bike boom, combined with the decline of the
    traditional bike-commuting classes shook up the British
    retail scene and either put a lot of the old shops out of
    business or forced them to modernise. While the MTB hasn't
    had quite the impact in France that it had in the UK, the
    big sports chains like Decathlon have made things tough
    for the smaller shops.

    Shape up or ship out, hmm?

    Quoted message said:

    I've only been in Paris for a couple of years, but I'm
    told that utility cycling was in terminal decline in Paris
    before the public transport strikes of the 1990s. Many of
    the shops that cater to the new utility cyclists date from
    this period, and sell mainly Dutch bikes.

    The Dutch being the people who never stopped making utility
    roadsters like the now-famous Behemoth.
    --
    Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

  20. James Thomson said:
    Mark South said:

    Don't the little Paris bike shops have whole bins of
    obsolete parts, like the village LBSs in England?

    Not that I've found - in fact my impression is that there
    are relatively few long-established bike shops in
    intramural Paris. Tim mentioned Alex Singer (just outside
    Paris proper at Levallois-Peret), and another fair bet for
    old stock is Bicloune at rue Froment, who have found me
    French-threaded track sprockets, among other rarities.

    Yes, last August when in Paris I went to see Cycles Boissis
    on the Avenue Grande Armee just a km or so from the Arc de
    Triomphe. Since they were reported to have been in business
    since the 50's I expected a nice funky shop with lots of old
    stuff. Instead it was a neat modern boutique with neat
    modern bicycles- carbon fiber, Ti, and very little suitable
    for randonneurs and such like.

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