that sound

"Craig Brossman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I rode the Iron Horse race this weekend, Masters 40-44, no
chance to place, but it is fun to try to get a good time
and ride with a pack. The first real hill on the ride is
Shalona, short at about 1.5 miles, but steep enough. The
peleton is still pretty much together as we come over a
roller, speeds are around 20 mph, down to the base of
Shalona. The fast guys will climb the hill at 10-11 mph, I
can usually go about 8.5, there is a lot movement in the
group, getting in position for the climb ahead. This is
really the start of the race.

Just that quick, I hear the sound of bikes, asphalt and
flesh mixing it up. I see about 10 feet in front, just off
to the right, a mess of 5-7 guys and their bikes. I hit
the hooks and easily make it around, in less than 2
seconds my involvement is over. But the sound of the crash
sticks with me, all the way to Silverton.

I had a terrible ride, I was well prepared, but had an off
day, not as bad as those guys. I don't think anyone was
seriously hurt, but I'ld guess that some of them in the
pile didn't finish the race. I had never heard the sound
of a crash that close up, but others I mentioned it to,
and had experienced, seemed to have the same feeling. It
is a horrible sound, I hope to never hear it again.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam"
to reply)

I just had a similar experience on last Tuesday nite's
hammer fest. Most of us in the group are not racers, and I'm
certainly not, but we do enjoy riding fast on a short week
night ride. After thousands of miles of riding I have little
experience with falling...my own or others, and have watched
about 2 crits in my life. Anyway, we're in a tight group,
one mile into a 28 mile ride, I'm about 5 riders back and
suddenly hear several bike tires squeeling, a crashing sound
and then suddenly bike wheels appear rubber side up moving
along in the pack at the same speed as the slowing group. By
the time I get up to the area of the victim I see the young
woman who is on her first ride with our group on the soft
grassy shoulder of the road. She gets up, quickly checks
wheels and brakes and is back on the bike. No road
rash...just mud. She hung with us the rest of the ride.
She's young, brand new to cycling, dates a racer, and is
really, really fast. She'll race and do well. But the sight
and sound really got to me for the rest of the ride...it's
not like on TV.

jb

Jim Boyer wrote:
:: "Craig Brossman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: "]news:[email hidden]...
::: I rode the Iron Horse race this weekend, Masters 40-44,
::: no chance to place, but it is fun to try to get a good
::: time and ride with a pack. The first real hill on the
::: ride is Shalona, short at about 1.5 miles, but steep
::: enough. The peleton is still pretty much together as we
::: come over a roller, speeds are around 20 mph, down to
::: the base of Shalona. The fast guys will climb the hill
::: at 10-11 mph, I can usually go about 8.5, there is a lot
::: movement in the group, getting in position for the climb
::: ahead. This is really the start of the race.
:::
::: Just that quick, I hear the sound of bikes, asphalt and
::: flesh mixing it up. I see about 10 feet in front, just
::: off to the right, a mess of 5-7 guys and their bikes. I
::: hit the hooks and easily make it around, in less than 2
::: seconds my involvement is over. But the sound of the
::: crash sticks with me, all the way to Silverton.
:::
::: I had a terrible ride, I was well prepared, but had an
::: off day, not as bad as those guys. I don't think anyone
::: was seriously hurt, but I'ld guess that some of them in
::: the pile didn't finish the race. I had never heard the
::: sound of a crash that close up, but others I mentioned
::: it to, and had experienced, seemed to have the same
::: feeling. It is a horrible sound, I hope to never hear it
::: again.
:::
::: --
::: Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to
::: reply)
:::
:: I just had a similar experience on last Tuesday nite's
:: hammer fest. Most of us in the group are not racers, and
:: I'm certainly not, but we do enjoy riding fast on a
:: short week night ride. After thousands of miles of
:: riding I have little experience with falling...my own or
:: others, and have watched about 2 crits in my life.
:: Anyway, we're in a tight group, one mile into a 28 mile
:: ride, I'm about 5 riders back and suddenly hear several
:: bike tires squeeling, a crashing sound and then suddenly
:: bike wheels appear rubber side up moving along in the
:: pack at the same speed as the slowing group. By the time
:: I get up to the area of the victim I see the young woman
:: who is on her first ride with our group on the soft
:: grassy shoulder of the road. She gets up, quickly checks
:: wheels and brakes and is back on the bike. No road
:: rash...just mud. She hung with us the rest of the ride.
:: She's young, brand new to cycling, dates a racer, and is
:: really, really fast. She'll race and do well. But the
:: sight and sound really got to me for the rest of the
:: ride...it's not like on TV.
::
:: jb

Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend. I
think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding, which
I have no experience at. Plus, I just went clipless so I
don't want issues with that, either.

Roger Zoul said:

::
:: jb

Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend. I
think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding, which
I have no experience at. Plus, I just went clipless so I
don't want issues with that, either.

Good luck on the ride Roger. Keep cool, and relaxed. Get
some pics you can put up on a website, maybe, eh?

-B (and if the wolfbane is blooming, say your prayers. <g>😉

Roger Zoul said:

Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend. I
think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding,
which I have no experience at. Plus, I just went clipless
so I don't want issues with that, either.

Just stay on the back of the pack until you get used to
riding with it. That way you won't risk taking anybody else
down. Ask for some advice on how to adjust speed with the
pack and what signs to look out for. Everybody will/should
pass down warnings of potholes and other obstructions etc.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Roger Zoul said:

Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend. I
think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding,
which I have no experience at. Plus, I just went clipless
so I don't want issues with that, either.

Well, this was a race atmosphere, probably about 70 guys,
which is a lot by my standards. Clipless should not pose a
problem till you stop, at least then it is not a high
speed crash 🙂
--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

Roger Zoul said:

Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend. I
think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding,
which I have no experience at. Plus, I just went clipless
so I don't want issues with that, either.

Don't let it worry you too much. Pack racing, or fast
training rides, can be dicey, especially if there are
newbies in the pack. But ordinary rides are usually
perfectly fine. Don't make any sudden moves, communicate
(things like "pothole" or "glass" or "car back"😉 and be
aware of the position of riders around you.

Once caveat. Watch who you ride with. If someone looks
squirrely - not maintaining a good straight line, not
maintaining a consistent pace, not paying attention, etc. -
just stay away from them. Ride near someone else.

I have a few good friends that I stay at least ten feet away
from when we're on bikes. At least one of those, I prefer
thirty feet.

Of course, we're assuming you won't be one of those
riders! ;-)

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Frank Krygowski said:

Don't let it worry you too much. Pack racing, or fast
training rides, can be dicey, especially if there are
newbies in the pack. But ordinary rides are usually
perfectly fine. Don't make any sudden moves, communicate
(things like "pothole" or "glass" or "car back"😉 and be
aware of the position of riders around you.

Oh, and whatever you do, keep your front wheel clear. One
cause of a group crash is someone getting their front wheel
bumped by another rider's back wheel.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
::: Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend.
::: I think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding,
::: which I have no experience at. Plus, I just went
::: clipless so I don't want issues with that, either.
::
:: Don't let it worry you too much. Pack racing, or fast
:: training rides, can be dicey, especially if there are
:: newbies in the pack. But ordinary rides are usually
:: perfectly fine. Don't make any sudden moves, communicate
:: (things like "pothole" or "glass" or "car back"😉 and be
:: aware of the position of riders around you.
::

Good stuff.

:: Once caveat. Watch who you ride with. If someone looks
:: squirrely - not maintaining a good straight line, not
:: maintaining a consistent pace, not paying attention, etc.
:: - just stay away from them. Ride near someone else.
::
:: I have a few good friends that I stay at least ten feet
:: away from when we're on bikes. At least one of those, I
:: prefer thirty feet.
::
:: Of course, we're assuming you won't be one of those
:: riders! ;-)
::

🙂 Good point. I've been okay with my riding buddies, but
:I've not done any
riding beyond pairs. I do pay attention, though, and I think
I'm fairly consistent unless I'm pounding up a hard
hill....then I can be a little weird in that the bike my
veer in either direction...

Craig Brossman wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::
::: Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend.
::: I think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding,
::: which I have no experience at. Plus, I just went
::: clipless so I don't want issues with that, either.
:::
:::
::
:: Well, this was a race atmosphere, probably about 70 guys,
:: which is a lot by my standards. Clipless should not pose
:: a problem till you stop, at least then it is not a high
:: speed crash 🙂

Right! I haven't crashed since last Saturday (when I
went clipless and crashed 3 times). I've had 3 rides
since then...

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:08:01 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
:::::
::::: jb
:::
::: Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend.
::: I think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding,
::: which I have no experience at. Plus, I just went
::: clipless so I don't want issues with that, either.
::
:: Good luck on the ride Roger. Keep cool, and relaxed. Get
:: some pics you can put up on a website, maybe, eh?

You mean take a camera? Oh, no man! Where would I put it?

::
:: -B (and if the wolfbane is blooming, say your
:: prayers. <g>😉

🙂

Frank Krygowski said:

Roger Zoul said:

Damn....I go on an organized 35-mile ride this weekend. I
think I'll stay off to myself instead of pack-riding,
which I have no experience at. Plus, I just went clipless
so I don't want issues with that, either.

Don't let it worry you too much. Pack racing, or fast
training rides, can be dicey, especially if there are
newbies in the pack. But ordinary rides are usually
perfectly fine. Don't make any sudden moves, communicate
(things like "pothole" or "glass" or "car back"😉 and be
aware of the position of riders around you.

Once caveat. Watch who you ride with. If someone looks
squirrely - not maintaining a good straight line, not
maintaining a consistent pace, not paying attention, etc.
- just stay away from them. Ride near someone else.

I have a few good friends that I stay at least ten feet
away from when we're on bikes. At least one of those, I
prefer thirty feet.

Of course, we're assuming you won't be one of those
riders! ;-)

When I have ridden in large packs, most folks are not shy
about giving advice/warnings to others riding poorly,
especially the more experienced. I suppose it is not a bad
thing, the wreck you save may be your own.

I second the importance of knowing the other riders, and
this assesment can usually be done very quickly.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

Roger Zoul said:

You mean take a camera? Oh, no man! Where would I put it?

Strap it to your rack.

Whaddya mean you haven't got a rack?
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 12:49:49 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: You mean take a camera? Oh, no man! Where would I
::: put it?
::
:: Strap it to your rack.
::
:: Whaddya mean you haven't got a rack?

No....should I have a rack? You mean over the rear wheel,
right? I'd rather get another bike and put a rack on that
bike...then I could ride to the store and shop and stuff. 🙂
Gotta have a reason for bike number 2 anyway, right?

Roger Zoul said:

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: Whaddya mean you haven't got a rack?

No....should I have a rack? You mean over the rear wheel,
right? I'd

Well, you should have a rack (yes, over the rear wheel) if
you want to bring a camera. Another option is a backpack, or
a [censored] pack. Cameras don't fit well in other common bicycle
cargo-implements. A handlebar bag would work, but they carry
a big aero penalty, and can be difficult to fit on modern
bikes with cables sticking out all over the place.

Quoted message said:

rather get another bike and put a rack on that bike...then
I could ride to the store and shop and stuff. 🙂 Gotta have
a reason for bike number 2 anyway, right?

Well, I suppose it could be an excuse for bike #2, but I put
the rack on the bike I ride on the road all the time. I get
to put all sorts of snacks on it for long rides, and I even
get to use it for shopping.

Of course, my difficulty with adding bikes is logistical;
where do I put yet another bike? I've already got a pile of
'em outside...
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: Whaddya mean you haven't got a rack?

No....should I have a rack? You mean over the rear wheel,
right? I'd

Well, you should have a rack (yes, over the rear wheel)
if you want to bring a camera. Another option is a
backpack, or a [censored] pack. Cameras don't fit well in
other common bicycle cargo-implements. A handlebar bag
would work, but they carry a big aero penalty, and can be
difficult to fit on modern bikes with cables sticking out
all over the place.

Nah you just need a smaller camera. One that can fit in a
jersey pocket, like the canon s400.

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Rick Onanian wrote:

snipped

Quoted message said:

A handlebar bag would work, but they carry a big aero
penalty,

Not as big as the human body directly behind it.

Quoted message said:

and can be difficult to fit on modern bikes with cables
sticking out all over the place.

Not if you you have Campy Brifters. All cables are under the
handlebar tape. Cheers

Rick Onanian said:

A handlebar bag would work, but they carry a big aero
penalty, and can be difficult to fit on modern bikes with
cables sticking out all over the place.

I agree that STI cables can make a handlebar bag a bit
tricky, but I've successfully installed such a bag anyway.

Regarding the aerodynamics: I'm not sure if there's any aero
penalty. I almost always run a handlebar bag, and I almost
always outcoast people of equal weight. If the bag is
hurting, it can't be hurting much.

Aerodynamics is a tricky subject. That's why they have wind
tunnels. I recall reading recently that "aero" (i.e. razor-
thin) seatposts are actually worse than round ones, and that
tri-style water bottles behind the seat are actually worse
than bottles in the frame, as shown by wind tunnel tests.
Don't know if I could find the citation, though.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]