Caffeine

YAY!!!!

c

"Alan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In browsing through the abstracts of the 63rd ADA
Scientific sessions, I came across this one.

"Abstract Title Coffee Consumption and Risk of Type 2
Diabetes in Men and Women

Abstract Information Presented during: Emerging Research
in Clinical Nutrition -
06/17/2003 (08:00 - 10:00 AM) Abstract Number: 307-OR
Authors: EDUARDO SALAZAR-MARTINEZ, WALTER WILLETT,
ALBERTO ASCHERIO, MICHAEL LEITZMANN, JOANN MANSON,
FRANK B. HU Institution: Boston, MA Results: In
small short-term studies, acute administration of
caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity and impairs
glucose tolerance. Because tolerance to the humoral
and hemodynamic effects of caffeine typically
develops with chronic use, it is difficult to
extrapolate findings from short-term studies to
chronic use of coffee and other caffeinated
beverages. We followed 42,888 men from 1986 to 1998
and 85,056 women from 1980 to 1998; these
participants were free of diabetes, cancer, and
cardiovascular disease at baseline. Coffee
consumption was assessed every 2-4 years through
validated questionnaires. We documented 1,333 new
cases of type 2 diabetes in men during 12 years of
follow-up and 4,085 new cases of type 2 diabetes in
women during 18 years of follow-up. We found an
inverse association between coffee intake and type 2
diabetes after adjustment for age, body mass index,
smoking, and others diabetes risk factors in both
men and women. In men, the multivariate relative
risks of diabetes according to coffee consumption
categories (0, <1, 1-3, 4-5, [ge]6 cups/day) were
1.00, 0.98, 0.93, .71, 0.46 (95%CI 0.26-0.82; P for
trend=0.002), and the corresponding RRs were 1.00,
1.16, 0.99, 0.70, 0.71 (95%CI 0.56-0.89; P for
trend<0.0001) in women. Total caffeine intake from
coffee and other sources was associated with a
significantly lower risk of diabetes in both men and
women (Multivariate RRs comparing extreme quintiles
of caffeine intake were 0.78 (95% CI 0.65-0.95, p
for trend=0.003) for men and 0.70 (95% CI 0.63-0.79,
p for trend < 0.0001) for women).

These data suggest that long-term coffee consumption is
associated with a significantly lower risk of type 2
diabetes in both men and women. Category: Nutrition"

Back to my java :-)

Maybe I should have drunk more of it when I was younger;
but I suspect I'd still be here.

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Alan said:

In browsing through the abstracts of the 63rd ADA
Scientific sessions, I came across this one.

Because of the length, I am top posting.

According to the data, there does not seem to be much of an
effect until the 4-5 cups/day level is reached. It is
practical significance, not statistical significance, which
needs to be looked at.

Also, are you sure that ALL the diabetes risk factors were
taken into account? I can think of several more. In fact,
there is even one potential argument which would invalidate
the study completely, and there is no way it can be ruled
out. That is that caffeine use could increase the early
onset of type 2 diabetes, which would exclude from the
study those who were most sensitive to the effects of
caffeine already.

This is always a problem in studies of this type; there can
be one or more confounding factors. That is one reason why
much is done with experimental animals; one can control
most of what they are doing from birth. Even there,
problems arise.

Now I am a statistician; if I can think of several factors
that might be ignored, I would expect medical researchers to
think of far more. It may be that they do not know how to
analyze the data if that is collected, and it might be that
nobody can do a good job, but some of us can do fair jobs
with the full models available. Even when we cannot, we
might be able to suggest the way to do further
experimentation.

Quoted message said:

"Abstract Title Coffee Consumption and Risk of Type 2
Diabetes in Men and Women

Quoted message said:

Abstract Information Presented during: Emerging Research in
Clinical Nutrition -
06/17/2003 (08:00 - 10:00 AM) Abstract Number: 307-OR
Authors: EDUARDO SALAZAR-MARTINEZ, WALTER WILLETT,
ALBERTO ASCHERIO, MICHAEL LEITZMANN, JOANN MANSON,
FRANK B. HU Institution: Boston, MA Results: In small
short-term studies, acute administration of caffeine
decreases insulin sensitivity and impairs glucose
tolerance. Because tolerance to the humoral and
hemodynamic effects of caffeine typically develops
with chronic use, it is difficult to extrapolate
findings from short-term studies to chronic use of
coffee and other caffeinated beverages. We followed
42,888 men from 1986 to 1998 and 85,056 women from
1980 to 1998; these participants were free of
diabetes, cancer, and cardiovascular disease at
baseline. Coffee consumption was assessed every 2-4
years through validated questionnaires. We documented
1,333 new cases of type 2 diabetes in men during 12
years of follow-up and 4,085 new cases of type 2
diabetes in women during 18 years of follow-up. We
found an inverse association between coffee intake
and type 2 diabetes after adjustment for age, body
mass index, smoking, and others diabetes risk factors
in both men and women. In men, the multivariate
relative risks of diabetes according to coffee
consumption categories (0, <1, 1-3, 4-5, [ge]6
cups/day) were 1.00, 0.98, 0.93, .71, 0.46 (95%CI 0.26-
0.82; P for trend=0.002), and the corresponding RRs
were 1.00, 1.16, 0.99, 0.70, 0.71 (95%CI 0.56-0.89; P
for trend<0.0001) in women. Total caffeine intake
from coffee and other sources was associated with a
significantly lower risk of diabetes in both men and
women (Multivariate RRs comparing extreme quintiles
of caffeine intake were 0.78 (95% CI 0.65-0.95, p for
trend=0.003) for men and 0.70 (95% CI 0.63-0.79, p
for trend < 0.0001) for women).

Quoted message said:

These data suggest that long-term coffee consumption is
associated with a significantly lower risk of type 2
diabetes in both men and women. Category: Nutrition"

Quoted message said:

Back to my java :-)

Quoted message said:

Maybe I should have drunk more of it when I was younger;
but I suspect I'd still be here.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that
these views are those of the Statistics Department or of
Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics,
Purdue University [email hidden] Phone: (765)494-
6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

On 28 May 2004 12:22:00 -0500, [email hidden] (Herman

Rubin) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Alan said:

In browsing through the abstracts of the 63rd ADA
Scientific sessions, I came across this one.

Because of the length, I am top posting.

According to the data, there does not seem to be much of an
effect until the 4-5 cups/day level is reached. It is
practical significance, not statistical significance, which
needs to be looked at.

Also, are you sure that ALL the diabetes risk factors were
taken into account? I can think of several more. In fact,
there is even one potential argument which would invalidate
the study completely, and there is no way it can be ruled
out. That is that caffeine use could increase the early
onset of type 2 diabetes, which would exclude from the
study those who were most sensitive to the effects of
caffeine already.

This is always a problem in studies of this type; there can
be one or more confounding factors. That is one reason why
much is done with experimental animals; one can control
most of what they are doing from birth. Even there,
problems arise.

Now I am a statistician; if I can think of several factors
that might be ignored, I would expect medical researchers
to think of far more. It may be that they do not know how
to analyze the data if that is collected, and it might be
that nobody can do a good job, but some of us can do fair
jobs with the full models available. Even when we cannot,
we might be able to suggest the way to do further
experimentation.

Hi Herman

Can't argue with you; but you may want to have a look at the
forum it was presented to, where I'm sure such questions
were asked from the floor - or maybe over a cup of coffee
afterwards:-)

I had a passing interest in the subject when I first arrived
here and posted queries on coffee and caffeine a couple of
times. I got almost no responses, so I did some searching on
medscape and google.

The surprising thing, from memory, was the lack of
conclusive evidence on the subject and the confusing
conclusions. It seemed to me that the evils of coffee,
consumed in normal quantities, were somewhat of an urban
myth. Anything consumed to excess is, IMO, dangerous, so I
discount any study based on excessive consumption.

So, until I see a credible study from a reputable source,
I'll drink my two to four strong mugs a day, made from the
grounds, some with cinnamon bark and some with whole cream.

JMO

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

On 28 May 2004 12:22:00 -0500, [email hidden] (Herman

Rubin) said:

Now I am a statistician; if I can think of several factors
that might be ignored, I would expect medical researchers
to think of far more. It may be that they do not know how
to analyze the data if that is collected, and it might be
that nobody can do a good job, but some of us can do fair
jobs with the full models available. Even when we cannot,
we might be able to suggest the way to do further
experimentation.

I'll bet you they don't care. I noticed that with a lot of
"reports" done since the mid-90's. The first were ones
claiming diabetes was caused by dairy milk.

That one report had 42 people tested, and they tested only
for proteins. Wel lduh, almost al lfood is broken down into
component parts, so just cause you find it in the
bloodstream doesn't mean it came fro mmilk. Second, no
causation ws listed or tested for. Nuthin'!

This isn't a report. It's propaganda for coffee
manufacturers.

Caffeine Can Decrease Insulin Sensitivity in Humans
care.diabetesjournals.org364Open ↗

Caffeine ingestion elevates plasma insulin response in
humans during an oral glucose tolerance test pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.carp2 abst eOpen ↗
026_79_ns_nf_cjpp7-01

"Alan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 28 May 2004 12:22:00 -0500, [email hidden]

(Herman Rubin) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Alan said:

In browsing through the abstracts of the 63rd ADA
Scientific sessions, I came across this one.

Because of the length, I am top posting.

According to the data, there does not seem to be much of
an effect until the 4-5 cups/day level is reached. It is
practical significance, not statistical significance,
which needs to be looked at.

Also, are you sure that ALL the diabetes risk factors
were taken into account? I can think of several more. In
fact, there is even one potential argument which would
invalidate the study completely, and there is no way it
can be ruled out. That is that caffeine use could
increase the early onset of type 2 diabetes, which would
exclude from the study those who were most sensitive to
the effects of caffeine already.

This is always a problem in studies of this type; there
can be one or more confounding factors. That is one
reason why much is done with experimental animals; one
can control most of what they are doing from birth. Even
there, problems arise.

Now I am a statistician; if I can think of several
factors that might be ignored, I would expect medical
researchers to think of far more. It may be that they do
not know how to analyze the data if that is collected,
and it might be that nobody can do a good job, but some
of us can do fair jobs with the full models available.
Even when we cannot, we might be able to suggest the way
to do further experimentation.

Hi Herman

Can't argue with you; but you may want to have a look at
the forum it was presented to, where I'm sure such
questions were asked from the floor - or maybe over a cup
of coffee afterwards:-)

I had a passing interest in the subject when I first
arrived here and posted queries on coffee and caffeine a
couple of times. I got almost no responses, so I did some
searching on medscape and google.

The surprising thing, from memory, was the lack of
conclusive evidence on the subject and the confusing
conclusions. It seemed to me that the evils of coffee,
consumed in normal quantities, were somewhat of an urban
myth. Anything consumed to excess is, IMO, dangerous, so I
discount any study based on excessive consumption.

So, until I see a credible study from a reputable
source, I'll drink my two to four strong mugs a day,
made from the grounds, some with cinnamon bark and some
with whole cream.

JMO

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-
virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗). Version: 6.0.692 /
Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004

On Sat, 29 May 2004 18:11:09 -0400, "David Smith"

Quoted message said:

Caffeine Can Decrease Insulin Sensitivity in Humans http:/-
/care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/25/2/364

Caffeine ingestion elevates plasma insulin response in
humans during an oral glucose tolerance test pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.carp2 abst eOpen ↗
026_79_ns_nf_cjpp7-01

Apart from liking a cup of coffee, my interest here is
academic; I don't own a plantation or coffee shop.

The cites given are interesting, although small, studies.
The first was 12 subjects, the second not clear.

One of the difficulties I have with studies like that is
that they use IV caffeine in lieu of a cup of coffee. To
make it relevant to drinking a beverage there are many other
factors, including the speed of conversion of that drink to
caffeine in the bloodstream. A cup of coffee, sipped over
several minutes, combined with possibly cream, sugar or
sweetener, is a different situation to a caffeine IV. To me,
that's no more relevant than injecting alcohol into the
bloodstream to evaluate the effects of wine.

Maybe these studies were in the author's mind when they said
in the opening sentence from the study quoted in my initial
post: " In small short-term studies, acute administration of
caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity and impairs glucose
tolerance. Because tolerance to the humoral and hemodynamic
effects of caffeine typically develops with chronic use, it
is difficult to extrapolate findings from short-term studies
to chronic use of coffee and other caffeinated beverages. We
followed 42,888 men from 1986 to 1998 and 85,056 women from
1980 to 1998;"

and their conclusion:

" Total caffeine intake from coffee and other sources was
associated with a significantly lower risk of diabetes in
both men and women (Multivariate RRs comparing extreme
quintiles of caffeine intake were .78 (95% CI 0.65-0.95, p
for trend=0.003) for men and 0.70 (95% CI .63-0.79, p for
trend < 0.0001) for women). "

I'm sure one could find faults in this study too, but to me
it is more credible, using a statistically significant
sample over a long term drinking real coffee. One wonders
why the researchers in those small studies didn't just give
the subjects cups of carefully analysed coffee, and measure
the levels of resulting caffeine to relate to their other
measurements. Too obvious and simplistic? Maybe I think like
a Vulcan too much.

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.