Question on road bikes

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

They lack the necessary rack/mudguard braze-ons and don't
have the right clearances for mudguards.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed
- but I don't want to get splashed going through puddles
and I do use my current bike quite a lot for carrying
stuff around.

Get a so-called 'Audax' bike. It has slightly larger
clearances and braze-ons in all the right places. Good for
fast, light touring.

Or get a tourer.

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

Yes. When you fit mudgurads and rack it's an audax bike
instead ;-)

Simonb <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> I'd like to get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed
:> - but I don't want to get splashed going through puddles
:> and I do use my current bike quite a lot for carrying
:> stuff around.

Or get a nice light, un-encumbered bike for when you want to
go fast and use your current bike for lugging stuff around.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this? I'd like to
get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I
don't want to get splashed going through puddles and I do
use my current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

Some road bikes do have the abilty to take mudguards
(sometimes racks as well) but it's not very practical on
most. It's also just nice to save that weight, improve
aerodynamics, improve access to wheels and tyres, save
potential hassle with maladjustment and just make the bike
look good!

I suggest getting a road bike in addition to what you have
now (or another more practical bike), not instead. Use the
racer for mainly dry-weather light-luggage use, and the
other bike(s) for the other times. Note that it is possible
to carry a certain amount on a bike without a conventional
rack by using a saddle bag or a seatpost rack.

Don't compromise too much by getting an audax job if you
fancy a proper fast one!

~PB

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simonb <[email hidden]> wrote:

No I didn't.

Quoted message said:

Or get a nice light, un-encumbered bike for when you
want to go fast and use your current bike for lugging
stuff around.

Not really what the OP was asking for.

I agree with you, though; I'm going to get the Pinarello
without m'guard eyes so that I'm not tempted -- I can always
fit a pair of race-blades if I absolutely have to, though.

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

A very good reason: they're made to go as fast as
possible[1] for a given price 'cause they're basically
racing machines, and 'guards and racks slow you down by
adding a little weight and drag and decreasing the amount
you can spend on go-faster bits (like smoother transmission)
by requiring you not only to pay for the racks and 'guards
but the frame braze-ons to mount them.

Some of these bikes do have the braze-ons (and suitable
clearances) for mudguards (and racks), so they can be
retro-fitted to these bikes. Or SKS now do a minimalist
'guard called the Race Blade for minimalist bikes, and
an SQR seatpost bag will fit most things with a bit of
visible seatpost.

Quoted message said:

get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I
don't want to get splashed going through puddles and I do
use my current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

I use different bikes for different things. Since you
probably won't be going too fast carrying heavy luggage this
may be the better approach. Audax bikes are somewhere
between a racer and tourer and are designed to eat miles
fast in comfort carrying light luggage, for more luggage
consider a tourer and/or a trailer. Or even a specialist
freight bike (I pick up 50 Kg of coal and 2 bags of kindling
sticks as a regular load on mine!).

Audax bikes are typified by the Dawes Audax and similar
machines from
e.g. Thorn and Orbit, though at the risk of darkening
Arthur's day again you can go Dark Side with something
like the HP Velotechnik Speedmachine and go at a good
speed in comfort on a damp day.

Pete.

[1] while also conforming to UCI rules, which often slows
things down /but/ it does mean you've got a standard
people ride to so it's easier to find a friendly chain
gang if you fancy working out with a local club, which
will probably improve your speed more than a particular
bike will...

--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this? I'd like to
get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I
don't want to get splashed going through puddles and I do
use my current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

Have a look, some road bikes have brazeons which mean you
can fit guards/racks after. Or, look for an audax bike. Sort
of a lightweight tourer. Or a racer with mudguards/racks.

Dawes Audax, for example. Which is what I've got. And which,
if I took off rack and guards and other weighty paraphanalia
would look just like a (albeit not alu framed) road bike...
*and* it's very light, too. Not quite as light as alu, but
light enough that even with racks etc I can lift it onto
shoulder with one arm to carry up and down flights of stairs
(impossible for wimpy girl to do with *normal* bikes).

--

Velvet

Peter Clinch said:

[1] while also conforming to UCI rules, which often slows
things down /but/ it does mean you've got a standard
people ride to so it's easier to find a friendly chain
gang if you fancy working out with a local club, which
will probably improve your speed more than a
particular bike will...

LOL. Poor Pete. Say it. Go on... you know you want to.

Peter Clinch said:

at the risk of darkening Arthur's day again you can go
Dark Side with something like the HP Velotechnik
Speedmachine and go at a good speed in comfort on a
damp day.

Although mine has a hefty diameter frame tube, a front
mudguard AND a Crud Catcher between me and the front
wheel, I still get damp in the Nether Regions when on wet
roads. Something which puts one a little higher in
relation to the front wheel will do a much better job of
keeping yer bum dry...

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Dawes Audax, for example. Which is what I've got. And
: which, if I took off rack and guards and other weighty
: paraphanalia would look just like a (albeit not alu
: framed) road bike... *and* it's very light, too. Not

It's not that light compared to a race bike. Light compared
to a gas-pipe cheap bike, yes.

I used to have one. It's a very nice bike and served me very
well indeed, but it's not a race bike (hint: my 60cm Audax
was about 6 lbs heavier than my race bike)

Don't get me wrong here, I like the Audax a lot, but a race
bike is a different thing again.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

: consider a tourer and/or a trailer. Or even a specialist
: freight bike (I pick up 50 Kg of coal and 2 bags of
: kindling sticks as a regular load on mine!).

Out of interest, what have you got? ISTR a Burrows 8
Freight?

How does it compare to the standard bike + Bob, which is
what I have?

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

"Simonb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and
racks fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

They lack the necessary rack/mudguard braze-ons and don't
have the right clearances for mudguards.

Am I correct in saying that while it is technically feasible
to manufacture mudguards that will fit into the clearances
provided by road bikes, this isn't done because people who
use road bikes generally *don't* want mudguards that will
slow them down anyway, so there's no point in making them?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd like to get a road bike myself for the enhanced
speed - but I don't want to get splashed going through
puddles and I do use my current bike quite a lot for
carrying stuff around.

Get a so-called 'Audax' bike. It has slightly larger
clearances and braze-ons in all the right places. Good for
fast, light touring.

Or get a tourer.

What's the difference between an Audax and a tourer?

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

Simonb said:

LOL. Poor Pete. Say it. Go on... you know you want to.

If you mean the R-word, I already did! ;-)

Seriously, one thing you don't get with a 'bent is any much
chance of a local pack of riders out pushing one another,
and doing that is a /very/ good way to get a lot faster:
"it's not about the bike", in other words.

But if you just want a fast bike then conforming to some
arbitrary and baroque specifications designed to ensure
people race people with no real performance edge from the
machines they do it on is not a great recipe.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Arthur Clune said:

Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Dawes Audax, for example. Which is what I've got. And
: which, if I took off rack and guards and other weighty
: paraphanalia would look just like a (albeit not alu
: framed) road bike... *and* it's very light, too. Not

It's not that light compared to a race bike. Light
compared to a gas-pipe cheap bike, yes.

I used to have one. It's a very nice bike and served me
very well indeed, but it's not a race bike (hint: my 60cm
Audax was about 6 lbs heavier than my race bike)

Don't get me wrong here, I like the Audax a lot, but a
race bike is a different thing again.

Arthur

Well, probably :-) But I got the impression the OP wasn't
actually after an infinitely-light race bike - I did say
road bike, maybe I've catagorised bikes more than I
thought I had :-)

Hmm, and thinking about it, I was comparing apples and pears
- comparing a much larger road bike (alu) with my smallest-size-they-
do audax (531C steel)...

Anyway, I still think the OP should investigate the
audax-types :-)

--

Velvet

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simonb <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> I'd like to get a road bike myself for the enhanced
:> speed - but I don't want to get splashed going through
:> puddles and I do use my current bike quite a lot for
:> carrying stuff around.

Or get a nice light, un-encumbered bike for when you
want to go fast and use your current bike for lugging
stuff around.

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately due to space
restrictions, I can only have the one bike. If I get a bit
more cash, I'm looking to get a Brompton though.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and
racks fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

A very good reason: they're made to go as fast as
possible[1] for a given price 'cause they're basically
racing machines, and 'guards and racks slow you down by
adding a little weight and drag and decreasing the amount
you can spend on go-faster bits (like smoother
transmission) by requiring you not only to pay for the
racks and 'guards but the frame braze-ons to mount them.

Just curious... this shaving off of weight here and there,
does it really count in the end? In fact, I would have
thought that racers would be happy to have rack/mudguards to
help them in training would have thought that

Quoted message said:

Some of these bikes do have the braze-ons (and suitable
clearances) for mudguards (and racks), so they can be retro-
fitted to these bikes. Or SKS now do a minimalist 'guard
called the Race Blade for minimalist bikes, and an SQR
seatpost bag will fit most things with a bit of visible
seatpost.

Quoted message said:

get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I
don't want to get splashed going through puddles and I
do use my current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff
around.

I use different bikes for different things. Since you
probably won't be going too fast carrying heavy luggage
this may be the better approach. Audax bikes are somewhere
between a racer and tourer and are designed to eat miles
fast in comfort carrying light luggage, for more luggage
consider a tourer and/or a trailer. Or even a specialist
freight bike (I pick up 50 Kg of coal and 2 bags of
kindling sticks as a regular load on mine!).

Audax bikes are typified by the Dawes Audax and similar
machines from
e.g. Thorn and Orbit, though at the risk of darkening
Arthur's day again you can go Dark Side with
something like the HP Velotechnik Speedmachine and go
at a good speed in comfort on a damp day.

Pete.

[1] while also conforming to UCI rules, which often slows
things down /but/ it does mean you've got a standard
people ride to so it's easier to find a friendly chain
gang if you fancy working out with a local club, which
will probably improve your speed more than a
particular bike will...

--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Dawes Audax, for example. Which is what I've got. And
: which, if I took off rack and guards and other weighty
: paraphanalia would look just like a (albeit not alu
: framed) road bike... *and* it's very light, too. Not

It's not that light compared to a race bike. Light
compared to a gas-pipe cheap bike, yes.

I used to have one. It's a very nice bike and served me
very well indeed, but it's not a race bike (hint: my 60cm
Audax was about 6 lbs heavier than my race bike)

Don't get me wrong here, I like the Audax a lot, but a
race bike is a

different

Quoted message said:

thing again.

how much does your race bike weigh?

cheers, clive

Wild Wind said:

"Simonb" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and
racks fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

They lack the necessary rack/mudguard braze-ons and don't
have the right clearances for mudguards.

Am I correct in saying that while it is technically
feasible to manufacture mudguards that will fit into the
clearances provided by road bikes, this isn't done because
people who use road bikes generally *don't* want mudguards
that will slow them down anyway, so there's no point in
making them?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd like to get a road bike myself for the enhanced
speed - but I don't want to get splashed going through
puddles and I do use my current bike quite a lot for
carrying stuff around.

Get a so-called 'Audax' bike. It has slightly larger
clearances and braze-ons in all the right places. Good
for fast, light touring.

Or get a tourer.

What's the difference between an Audax and a tourer?

A tourer will have a longer wheelbase better suited to
carrying heavy loads, and larger clearances for fitting
fatter tyres and mudguards. It will most likely be made of
steel as it gives a smoother ride over long distances.
'Audax' bikes tend to be more like road racers -- but with
more concessions towards touring/comfort, ie, slightly
larger clearances, fittings for a rear rack and mudguard
eyes. That sort of thing.

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and
racks fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

A very good reason: they're made to go as fast as
possible[1] for a given price 'cause they're basically
racing machines, and 'guards and racks slow you down by
adding a little weight and drag and decreasing the amount
you can spend on go-faster bits (like smoother
transmission) by requiring you not only to pay for the
racks and 'guards but the frame braze-ons to mount them.

Just curious... this shaving off of weight here and there,
does it really count in the end? I mean, I dare say it's
possible to design a mudguard that weighed 200g, but I don't
know that the negligible extra speed you would gain from
losing 200g would be worth the lack of protection from
surface water.

But then again, we all have different things we look for
in riding.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk