Gonchar and Honchar?

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in news:8iMsc.31340$ai7.17014
@fe15.usenetserver.com:

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been
around for a long time. Does anybody know why he changed
one letter in his name? Also, on the topic of name
changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or extend
their names from season to season?

For latin riders (and latin people in general) it is
traditional to take on their mother's maiden name followed
by their father's surname. This tends to cause the extremely
long latin names you'll see somtimes
ie., Carlos Domingo Gomez Rodrigo Gonzales Olano Jimenez
Fernandez de Cruz etc...

Albiet most latinos(as), for the sake of sanity, tend
to shorten it to just their first name followed by
father's surname.

- Boyd "Don't know about the (G)Honchar thing" S.

Boyd Speerschneider bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com said:

"Don't know about the (G)Honchar thing" S.

I've always heard that it depends on how it's translated
from the Cyrillic spelling into "reglar writin'".

--
David N. Welton Consulting: dedasys.comdedasys.comOpen ↗
Personal: dedasys.comdavidwOpen ↗ Free Software:
dedasys.comfreesoftwareOpen ↗ Apache Tcl:
tcl.apache.orgtcl.apache.orgOpen ↗

BJC said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been
around for a long time. Does anybody know why he changed
one letter in his name? Also, on the topic of name
changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or extend
their names from season to season?

--

During the off-season he changes it back to Gonchar and
plays defence for the Boston Bruins ;-) --->
nhl.com8458951.htmlOpen ↗

J. Spaceman

--
My email address ([email hidden])
is fake. Email sent to it will only get caught in my
spam tarpit.

Hon(t)char is Ukrainian spelling; Gon(t)char is Russian
(rendered into the latin alphabet). His first name appears
on Italian tv OLN feed as Serhuei(?) for Sergei.

"Jason Spaceman" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BJC said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has
been around for a long time. Does anybody know why he
changed one letter in his name? Also, on the topic of
name changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or
extend their names from season to season?

--

During the off-season he changes it back to Gonchar and
plays defence for

the Boston

Quoted message said:

Bruins ;-) --->
nhl.com8458951.htmlOpen ↗

J. Spaceman

--
My email address ([email hidden]) is
fake. Email sent

to it will

Quoted message said:

only get caught in my spam tarpit.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jrodgers
Hon(t)char is Ukrainian spelling; Gon(t)char is Russian
(rendered into the latin alphabet). His first name appears
on Italian tv OLN feed as Serhuei(?) for Sergei.

It's definitely spelled the same way in Russian and Ukrainian - with the Cyrillic letter "G" (looks like Greek "gamma"😉 but the bilingual Ukrainian newspapers pretty consistently transliterate into Honchar instead of Gonchar even though it sounds more like a "g" according to the pronunciation guides I've seen.

The "t" in Gontchar must be a French thing (like in Tchaikowski), it's not in the Russian or Ukrainian.

I believe that the spelling of his name changed when the
Ukranian govt changed the templates for translating between
their language ( some kind of cyrillic) to language. That
changed the 'g' in both his first and last names to an 'h'.
If I remember correctly he was a little annoyed and wanted
to maintain the old english spelling but I guess the
authorities wouldn't allow it.

That is the gist of what I recall.

jrodgers said:

Hon(t)char is Ukrainian spelling; Gon(t)char is Russian
(rendered into the latin alphabet). His first name appears
on Italian tv OLN feed as Serhuei(?) for Sergei.

Somewhere recently maybe bicycling.com this was discussed
and it dates back to the "cultural revolution" when the
Soviet Union tried to "unify" the provinces under one well
one everything. Has to do with the towo alphabets not
haveing interchanging letter for G and H. I've forgotten
which way it worked... I think the H is misssing in the
cyrillic script.

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been
around for a long time. Does anybody know why he changed
one letter in his name? Also, on the topic of name
changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or extend
their names from season to season?

Spanish riders are often refered to by their patrilineal
name (father's family name) often they will also add the
mothers name after that, i.e. Roberto Heras Hernandez. There
are further additions some spaniards include (i.e. Igor
Gonzalez _de Galdeano_ may be refering to a town or region,
though I'm not positive), but I don't see them much in the
cycling team rosters.

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been
around for a long time. Does anybody know why he changed
one letter in his name?

Like someone said, there is no H in Russian (Ukranian).
For example, in Russian, Hegel is Gegel, but no Russian
person has been able to explain to me why Gogol in English
is not Hogol.

-ilan

DiabloScott <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The "t" in Gontchar must be a French thing (like in
Tchaikowski), it's not in the Russian or Ukrainian.

See the book "The Thread" by Philip Davis
doyletics.comthread.htmOpen ↗

-ilan

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been
around for a long time. Does anybody know why he changed
one letter in his name? Also, on the topic of name
changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or extend
their names from season to season?

There was a note about this in Cycle Sport a few years ago.
Apparently it changes a ton. Taking a couple mins to look
through the more common spellings at cyclingnew.com, I get a
TON of options. I'm sure the permutations take us well into
the 20s for one guy.

-a

google.comsearchOpen ↗
8&oe=UTF-8&q=site:www%2Ecyclingnews%2Ecom+gonchar Serguei
Gonchar Sergei Gonchar Sergej Gonchar Sergey Gonchar

google.comsearchOpen ↗
8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=Honchar+site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&bt-
nG=Search Serhiy Honchar Sergueï Honchar Serguei Honchar
Sergei Honchar Sergej Honchar Sergey Honchar Sergui Honchar

r+site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-
8&safe=off&c2coff=1 Serhiy Hontchar

google.comsearchOpen ↗
8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=Gontchar++site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&-
btnG=Search Serguei Gontchar Sergei Gontchar

"Boyd Speerschneider" <bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com> a écrit dans le
message de :
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:8iMsc.31340$ai7.17014 @fe15.usenetserver.com:

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has
been around for a long time. Does anybody know why he
changed one letter in his name?

Not a mystery. Cyrillic, used in Ukraine and Russia, is not
the factor. The "G" in Ukrainian is pronounced, in most
cases, as a "H" or "KH". The passport regime there has made
a nationalist point by using the Latin letter "G" just to
confuse the pronunciation, I guess.
--
Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR

Boyd Speerschneider <bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:8iMsc.31340$ai7.17014

For latin riders (and latin people in general) it is
traditional to take on their mother's maiden name followed
by their father's surname. This tends to cause the
extremely long latin names you'll see somtimes
ie., Carlos Domingo Gomez Rodrigo Gonzales Olano Jimenez
Fernandez de Cruz etc...

Albiet most latinos(as), for the sake of sanity, tend to
shorten it to just their first name followed by father's
surname.

- Boyd "Don't know about the (G)Honchar thing" S.

It's father's last name first, then the mothers. Both are
put into official documents (passports, etc), but usually
they drop the maternal last name.

Looks like other people have explained the Honchar/Gonchar
thing better than me, but i was wondering if it depended on
what language the name was being written for, i.e. Boris
Yeltsin, was spelled differently for Dutch, or you have
Usama, or Osama for bin Laden, and a host of different
spellings for Ghadaffi/Quadafi/whatever...

"Andrew Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has
been around for a long time. Does anybody know why he
changed one letter in his name? Also, on the topic of
name changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or
extend their names from season to season?

There was a note about this in Cycle Sport a few years
ago. Apparently it changes a ton. Taking a couple mins to
look through the more common spellings at cyclingnew.com,
I get a TON of options. I'm sure the permutations take us
well into the 20s for one guy.

LOL! We'll try to stick with Serguei Gonchar from now on.

Jeff

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Ilan Vardi
DiabloScott <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The "t" in Gontchar must be a French thing (like in
Tchaikowski), it's not in the Russian or Ukrainian.

See the book "The Thread" by Philip Davis
doyletics.comthread.htmOpen ↗

-ilan

I thought I was the only person ever to read that! I figured Tchaikowski was a better example here than Tchebychev though.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by BJC
Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name? Also, on the topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or extend their names from season to season?

First off, let me begin by saying that I speak and read Ukrainian fluently and am pretty passable at Russian.

Russian and Ukrainian have a similar alphabet (both Cyrillic) but they are not identical. One big difference is that Ukrainian has both the "G" and "H" sounds while Russian only has the "G" sound. Now here's the really confusing part. The Russian alphabet has a single letter "G" which looks like an upside down capital letter L with no serif. In Ukrainian, a serif is sometimes added. The serif pointing up makes it a G while no serif or pointing down is an H.

Russian and Ukrainian languages are also similar (kind of like Spanish and Italian) but are also not identical. The Ukrainian word for Potter is "Honchar" while the Russian word is "Gonchar".

In translation, many westerners are still used to the old Soviet style translations where there is no translation from Ukrainian because it was not recognized as a "real" language (a Tsarist and Soviet attempt to destroy Ukrainian culture). Basically the translating culture's sensitivity to the Ukrainian struggle for cultural identity decides whether Ukrainian is translated correctly or not.

Typically, english speaking countries translate it as Russian. From looking at the UCI rankings and the Italian TV, the French and Italians recognize the difference.

-Andy B.

[email hidden] (Andrew Martin) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has
been around for a long time. Does anybody know why he
changed one letter in his name? Also, on the topic of
name changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or
extend their names from season to season?

There was a note about this in Cycle Sport a few years
ago. Apparently it changes a ton. Taking a couple mins to
look through the more common spellings at cyclingnew.com,
I get a TON of options. I'm sure the permutations take us
well into the 20s for one guy.

-a

google.comsearchOpen ↗
8&oe=UTF-8&q=site:www%2Ecyclingnews%2Ecom+gonchar Serguei
Gonchar Sergei Gonchar Sergej Gonchar Sergey Gonchar

p://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-
8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=Honchar+site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com-
&btnG=Search Serhiy Honchar Sergueï Honchar Serguei
Honchar Sergei Honchar Sergej Honchar Sergey Honchar
Sergui Honchar

site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-
8&safe=off&c2coff=1 Serhiy Hontchar

tp://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-
8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=Gontchar++site%3Awww.cyclingnews.co-
m&btnG=Search Serguei Gontchar Sergei Gontchar

D-I-E-R-C-K-X-S-E-N-S

every language has its own established rules for converting
foreign language characters. In Dutch with our softer G than
in English, Gonchar is correct. And we also should write
Jekimov, although most adopt the Ekimov from the dominant
western languages.

Faster Bordello <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

jrodgers said:

Hon(t)char is Ukrainian spelling; Gon(t)char is Russian
(rendered into the latin alphabet). His first name
appears on Italian tv OLN feed as Serhuei(?) for Sergei.

Somewhere recently maybe bicycling.com this was discussed
and it dates back to the "cultural revolution" when the
Soviet Union tried to "unify" the provinces under one well
one everything. Has to do with the towo alphabets not
haveing interchanging letter for G and H. I've forgotten
which way it worked... I think the H is misssing in the
cyrillic script.

That or Les Nessman is alive and well: "ChI ChI Rod-ROW-
gweez"