CAMPY RECORD BB problems!

dpsftsai-<< I noticed a "clunk" which seemed to come from
the BB area

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

<< When I did take apart the BB, I noticed an great amount
of play with the bearings in the carbon sleeve. This
occurred even when the cups were seated tightly against the
bearings. When I removed the cups, the drive side bearings
seemed to be only loosely connected to the axle and came
apart very easily. >><BR><BR>

The two bearings on the BB should not come off easily. It
sounds like the frameset shell was not faced, parallel and
the torque caysed the BB spindle/bearings to come loose.
Really tough to say w/o seeing it but I recommend a facing
of the BB shell.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Hi Peter. So I gather then that you personally feel that the
Campy Record BB could in no way be at fault? That this is
more an issue of improper installation instead?

I understand what you are saying makes great sense. That "If
the Frame's 2 Bottom Bracket Faces are not parallel to the
threads of the Frame Bottom Bracket, correct Torque, and
proper button-up of the Bottom Bracket Cups cannot properly
be achieved". That problems of some sort will arise
somewhere down the road because of this. I find no fault in
this explanation.

I have read some mixed reviews online, both pro, and con
about the Campy BB's especially the Carbon Record Unit. To
be honest, I personally don't know what to believe. Some
have said that the Chorus BB is actually a better unit, and
I wonder myself if this in fact true? Could the Record
Carbon Sleeve be a weak link for a BB that is to have long
troublefree life? Might the Chorus with Alloy Sleeve be
stronger? (Some have also said that both top end Campy Units
are [censored]?!) One explanation was tiny bearings used.

I'm currently facing these issues right now on which unit to
purchase for a build up. I'm starting to lean toward
purchasing the Chorus Unit myself? Mark

You said:

The two bearings on the BB should not come off easily. It
sounds like the frameset shell was not faced, parallel and
the torque caysed the BB spindle/bearings to come loose.
Really tough to say w/o seeing it but I recommend a facing
of the BB shell.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Mark said:

I have read some mixed reviews online, both pro, and con
about the Campy BB's especially the Carbon Record Unit. To
be honest, I personally don't know what to believe. Some
have said that the Chorus BB is actually a better unit,
and I wonder myself if this in fact true? Could the Record
Carbon Sleeve be a weak link for a BB that is to have long
troublefree life? Might the Chorus with Alloy Sleeve be
stronger? (Some have also said that both top end Campy
Units are [censored]?!) One explanation was tiny bearings used.

I'm currently facing these issues right now on which unit
to purchase for a build up. I'm starting to lean toward
purchasing the Chorus Unit myself? Mark

My Record BB lasted 15,000k and then disintegrated. I
think it got ruined by moisture accumulation in the BB
shell. Do yourself a favor and buy Phil Woods BB. They are
the best for sure.

Kenny Lee

Rouleur said:

Anyone else have a similar experience???

I built my bike up with Campy Record. First Campy bike in
14 years. Longtime Shimano user.

I noticed a "clunk" which seemed to come from the BB area.
It was worse with a pedal stroke on the drive side and got
progressively worse over time. Also was worse with out of
the saddle pedaling.

Erk! I've just had a chance to check the BB on my bike
while I was installing a connex chain link and it appears
the BB is knackered. It makes a grinding noise when turning
and after removing the cranks I couldn't turn the BB by
hand. This wasn't the case a month ago when it turned
smoothly and silently.

The unit is a Campy Record triple and it's less than 3
months old with only a little over 1000 miles on it.

Does anybody know if I am right in thinking that these units
can't be repaired?

Pete

Hi Peter, Thank you for the explanation, and a bit of
schooling here. I now understand a bit more about these, as
you state, the Carbon Sleeve serves no Structural
importance, other than to serve as a "Crud Guard".

To answer another poster questions/remarks, Yes, Phil Wood
does make Bottom Brackets for any new Campy Cranks. (Either
standard Steel/Alloy, or Ti/Alloy.

From what I can remember, Phil Wood BB's always have had an
excellent reputation for high quality, and I am now myself
seriously considering one of these for my build up. To see
what Phil Wood makes, go to Branford Bike
www.brandfordbike.com and they have it all. Mark

Quoted message said:

The design of the Record one is identical to the Chorus
one with the exception of a oversixed, welded in the
center BB spindle to reduce weight. Otherwise the same. If
there is a 'problem' with the Record one, it would be in
the Chorus one as well. I just haven't seen any issues
with the dozens I have installed. The carbon sleeve is
just a crud guard. You could remove it and the BB would
still work.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Folks in the know, forgive me if this is a stupid question,
but I have a question about the Phil Wood Bottom Brackets.
(Sheldon-Peter please help me here)

I have seen pics of these Phil Wood brackets, but haven't
seen one in person recently. With a Phil Wood Bottom
Bracket, it appears to me, that the Locking Rings do NOT
have a lip to them. They just look to me that they thread
within the Bottom Bracket shell,and that's it. In other
words, the area that would be faced (The edge of the frame
BB) does not require to be faced like it would need to, by
using another type Bottom Bracket? (Let's say a Campagnolo
Record? These to me, appear to have an outer lip on thier
locking rings)

Would this edge on the frame bottom bracket now be exposed?
Or is my thinking all screwy? Hope I have made myself clear
in what I am asking? Please enlighten me. TIA Mark D.

pete-<< Does anybody know if I am right in thinking that
these units can't be repaired? >><BR><BR>

They cannot but most of the BB problems I've encountered are
centered around a non prepped BB shell. Few if any framesets
these days are faced, chased, prepped at all. If the BB has
a cup that is against the BB shell, it needss to be faced.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On 22 May 2004 20:11:48 -0700 (Mark) said:

Folks in the know, forgive me if this is a stupid question,
but I have a question about the Phil Wood Bottom Brackets.
(Sheldon-Peter please help me here)

I have seen pics of these Phil Wood brackets, but haven't
seen one in person recently. With a Phil Wood Bottom
Bracket, it appears to me, that the Locking Rings do NOT
have a lip to them. They just look to me that they thread
within the Bottom Bracket shell,and that's it. In other
words, the area that would be faced

That is correct. They only use the threads for alignment.
This also allows you to install them in various locations to
make small chainline corrections.

It's a very nice system.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden] Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

apoman-<< With a Phil Wood Bottom Bracket, it appears

to me,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that the Locking Rings do NOT have a lip to them. They
just look to me that they thread within the Bottom
Bracket shell,and that's it.

Quoted message said:

><BR><BR>

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

That is correct, no need to face the BB shell, just
ensure the BB shell threads are clean.

Ningi said:

A quick question Peter. Can you recommend anything for
cleaning old thread lock off BB threads? I have to replace
my BB and cleaning up the threads is hard work with a
toothbrush and some degreasant. I was hoping there might
be something better.

Heat it with a heat gun. It crumbles.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

apoman-<< With a Phil Wood Bottom Bracket, it appears
to me,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that the Locking Rings do NOT have a lip to them. They
just look to me that they thread within the Bottom
Bracket shell,and that's it.
>><BR><BR>

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

That is correct, no need to face the BB shell, just
ensure the BB shell threads are clean.

Ningi said:

A quick question Peter. Can you recommend anything for
cleaning old thread lock off BB threads? I have to
replace my BB and cleaning up the threads is hard work
with a toothbrush and some degreasant. I was hoping there
might be something better.

Heat it with a heat gun. It crumbles.

Thanks for the tip, Andrew.

Pete

The two bearings on the BB should not come off easily. It
sounds like the

Quoted message said:

frameset shell was not faced, parallel and the torque
caysed the BB spindle/bearings to come loose. Really
tough to say w/o seeing it but I recommend a facing of
the BB shell.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Peter, thanks for responding. I did face the BB despite
the protests from my local bike shop mechanic...who i do
trust. he had claimed that cannondales "didn't need it",
but i insisted.

-thanks, Dave

Hi Peter, Asking one more question of you, it's the
continuance of this procedure to then go next onto the crank
installation.

Searching, I have also read to grease the axel
shafts/spindles before crank installation. And also after
installed, and torqued "Do Not Play with them"!

The question I have in particular related to Campy Chorus,
or Record Cranks-Axels, as I see these new Cranks come with
an 8mm Allen Head Bolt, and do not come with a Hex Bolt, and
"Dust" Cover anymore.

Sure, I understand that an 8mm Hex Allen wrench will get you
part of the way with the Installation, but what about the
tightening to proper torque using a Torque Wrench?

Would I need to go out, and buy a 8mm Allen Socket that will
fit on a torque wrench so then to know I have proper torque.
I don't feel like guessing at this crank installation.
Thanks, Mark

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in
message news:<20040523091858.03927.00001932@mb-
m01.aol.com>...

Quoted message said:

pete-<< Does anybody know if I am right in thinking that
these units can't be repaired? >><BR><BR>

They cannot but most of the BB problems I've encountered
are centered around a non prepped BB shell. Few if any
framesets these days are faced, chased, prepped at all. If
the BB has a cup that is against the BB shell, it needss
to be faced.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On 26 May 2004 12:08:17 -0700, [email hidden] (Mark)
wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Sure, I understand that an 8mm Hex Allen wrench will get
you part of the way with the Installation, but what about
the tightening to proper torque using a Torque Wrench?

Would I need to go out, and buy a 8mm Allen Socket that
will fit on a torque wrench so then to know I have proper
torque. I don't feel like guessing at this crank
installation. Thanks, Mark

Dear Mark,

If you need 3/8" drive metric hex sockets, you might try these--
ten bucks, plus shipping, 4 ,5, 6, 7, 8, and 10mm:

harborfreight.comDisplayitem.tafOpen ↗
umber=35183

Or a local hardware store or bearing supply shop might sell
you a single 8mm hex-bit socket.

Carl Fogel

Hi Carl, Thank you very much for the link!

I imagine many people probably make these (Sears-
Craftsman, Stanley, Snap-On, etc etc) Trying to walk into
a store, and buy one of these off the shelf might prove
futile, so, your idea of buying online might actually be a
much easier process. I'll try to call around first, and
see what I can find.

I know GM uses these type of Sockets for Disc Brake Caliper
Bolts, as I have one, but if memory serves me correctly,
these are 10mm, and not 8mm.

All I'll have to do then, is use a 3/8"-1/2 Adapter with the
8mm Allen Socket, and I'll be able to snap this on to my
1/2" Drive Snap-On Click Type Torque Wrench.

Maybe Park Tools needs to start carrying these, as going
with Allen Crank Bolts seems to be the Wave of the future?
Thank you again Carl! Mark

[email hidden] wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 26 May 2004 12:08:17 -0700, [email hidden]
(Mark) wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Sure, I understand that an 8mm Hex Allen wrench will get
you part of the way with the Installation, but what about
the tightening to proper torque using a Torque Wrench?

Would I need to go out, and buy a 8mm Allen Socket that
will fit on a torque wrench so then to know I have proper
torque. I don't feel like guessing at this crank
installation. Thanks, Mark

Dear Mark,

If you need 3/8" drive metric hex sockets, you might try
these--ten bucks, plus shipping, 4 ,5, 6, 7, 8, and 10mm:

harborfreight.comDisplayitem.tafOpen ↗
mnumber=35183

Or a local hardware store or bearing supply shop might
sell you a single 8mm hex-bit socket.

Carl Fogel

Oooops! Forgive me all, but I do see that Park Tool does
make Hex Allen Sockets. I imagine another good quality
brand, such as Snap-On, Craftsman, work work just as good in
this case. Mark

[email hidden] wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 26 May 2004 12:08:17 -0700, [email hidden]
(Mark) wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Sure, I understand that an 8mm Hex Allen wrench will get
you part of the way with the Installation, but what about
the tightening to proper torque using a Torque Wrench?

Would I need to go out, and buy a 8mm Allen Socket that
will fit on a torque wrench so then to know I have proper
torque. I don't feel like guessing at this crank
installation. Thanks, Mark

Dear Mark,

If you need 3/8" drive metric hex sockets, you might try
these--ten bucks, plus shipping, 4 ,5, 6, 7, 8, and 10mm:

harborfreight.comDisplayitem.tafOpen ↗
mnumber=35183

Or a local hardware store or bearing supply shop might
sell you a single 8mm hex-bit socket.

Carl Fogel