Chain lubrication

Sam Ford said:

I expect this will have been discussed here at length but I have only been taking the group for a
short time and haven't seen it. What is the most efficient way to maintain and lubricate a bike
chain? Perhaps someone could point me to a site where this is discussed.

draco.acs.uci.edu8d.1.htmlOpen ↗

Sam Ford said:

I expect this will have been discussed here at length but I have only been taking the group for a
short time and haven't seen it. What is the most efficient way to maintain and lubricate a bike
chain? Perhaps someone could point me to a site where this is discussed.

I have an article on this topic, see: sheldonbrown.comchainsOpen ↗

Sheldon "Phil Wood Tenacious Oil" Brown +-------------------------------------------+
| Good judgment comes from experience, | and experience comes from bad judgment. | --Fred Brook |
+-------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

"Sam Ford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I expect this will have been discussed here at length but I have only been taking the group for a
short time and haven't seen it. What is the most efficient way to maintain and lubricate a bike
chain? Perhaps someone could point me to a site where this is discussed.

Try

sheldonbrown.comchains.htmlOpen ↗

Much useful information and sensible advice.

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sam Ford said:

I expect this will have been discussed here at length but I have only

been

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

taking the group for a short time and haven't seen it. What is the most efficient way to
maintain and lubricate a bike chain? Perhaps someone

could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

point me to a site where this is discussed.

I have an article on this topic, see: > Sheldon "Phil Wood Tenacious Oil" Brown

WD-40 works fine as a chain cleaner and lubricant. Been using it for over 30 years.

I have been using Rohloff's oil and it's just perfect: not too thick, not too liquid, but
just right.

According to lab tests performed by TOUR magazine, chemical cleaning destroys the inside lubrication
of a chain. Only diesel or something similar should be used too clean chains.

Greets, Derk

Derk Drukker said:

I have been using Rohloff's oil and it's just perfect: not too thick, not too liquid, but
just right.

According to lab tests performed by TOUR magazine, chemical cleaning destroys the inside
lubrication of a chain.

So? That's why you oil your chain afterwards.

I find chainsaw bar oil (or medium weight motor oil) to be just perfect: not too think, not too
liquid, but just right, and costing about $3/litre.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Amoebit: Amoeba/rabbit cross; it can multiply and divide at the same time.

"Sam Ford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I expect this will have been discussed here at length but I have only been taking the group for a
short time and haven't seen it. What is the most efficient way to maintain and lubricate a bike
chain? Perhaps someone

could

Quoted message said:

point me to a site where this is discussed.

That, my friend, is a Frequently Asked Question! draco.acs.uci.edurbfaqOpen ↗

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

Hello Benjamin,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

According to lab tests performed by TOUR magazine, chemical cleaning destroys the inside
lubrication of a chain.

So? That's why you oil your chain afterwards.

No, the original lubrication layer can not be restored when you apply oil after having used
solvents. They treated chains this way, took them apart in a lab and the picture clearly shows that
the lubricant that is removed, can't be restored this way. In Campa chain manuals the same thing is
said btw. When you use Diesel to clean, this doesn't happen.

Greets, Derk

Derk Drukker said:

Hello Benjamin,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

According to lab tests performed by TOUR magazine, chemical cleaning destroys the inside
lubrication of a chain.

So? That's why you oil your chain afterwards.

No, the original lubrication layer can not be restored when you apply oil after having used
solvents.

Again, so what? I have a brand spanking new "lubrication layer" of oil. My chain still runs smoothly
over 600 km later (and possibly much further). Why would I want the "original lubrication" to still
be there, probably filled with dirt causing my chain to wear?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Amoebit: Amoeba/rabbit cross; it can multiply and divide at the same time.

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So? That's why you oil your chain afterwards.

NO, the oil won't be able to restore the lubrication and will wear out faster then if you would just
wipe dirt off with a piece of cloth. Cleaning your chain with liquid degreaser will cause faster
wear. Your chain will look nicer, but you'll have to replace it sooner.

Quoted message said:

Again, so what? I have a brand spanking new "lubrication layer" of oil.

It won't get inside the chain. It is pressed out, whilst the original grease won't be pressed out.

Quoted message said:

My chain still runs smoothly over 600 km later (and possibly much further).

I always used Campa C9 chains and did 6500 km with them, without using any cleaner. I just rubbed
the dirt off with a piece of cloth.

Quoted message said:

Why would I want the "original lubrication" to still be
there, probably filled with dirt causing my chain to wear?

Because independent lab results showed afterr taking many chains apart, that your statement is
not correct.

MAybe you'll believe the Rohloff company. They say: "the inside of a chain, where dirt builds up,
can't be cleaned anyway (in other words: you remove the oil, but the dirt stays inside). So don't
use degreasers, but only use something that doesn't degrease for 100% like Diesel or petroleum".
(from Rohloff tech info: chain maintenance). Rohloff says so, as does Campagnolo. If you think a
shiny chain is more important then wear, you should clean it with degrease, but you'll only clean
the outside, not the inside where it really matters.

Greets, Derk

Derk Drukker said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Quoted message said:

> So? That's why you oil your chain afterwards.

NO, the oil won't be able to restore the lubrication and will wear out faster then if you would
just wipe dirt off with a piece of cloth. Cleaning your chain with liquid degreaser will cause
faster wear.

Wear is caused by fine dirt in the chain.

Quoted message said:

Your chain will look nicer, but you'll have to replace it sooner.

My chain generally looks black, after I've been riding it for a while.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Again, so what? I have a brand spanking new "lubrication layer" of oil.

It won't get inside the chain. It is pressed out, whilst the original grease won't be pressed out.

Then why doesn't my chain ever start to squeak until I ride in the rain?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My chain still runs smoothly over 600 km later (and possibly much further).

I always used Campa C9 chains and did 6500 km with them, without using any cleaner. I just rubbed
the dirt off with a piece of cloth.

I generally have to oil sooner than 6500 km, since I ride in the rain frequently. I prefer to clean
my chain before I oil it, so I don't get *more* dirt inside. 600 km is merely how far I've gone
without cleaning or oiling my chain at all, and it wasn't necessary even at that point. I wonder
what kept it going smoothly, when all the oil was pressed out? Perhaps this is only a problem with
one of these fancy bike-specific lubes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would I want the "original lubrication" to still be there, probably filled with dirt causing
my chain to wear?

Because independent lab results showed afterr taking many chains apart, that your statement is not
correct.

Which statement is not correct? Which lab results? Where are they?

Quoted message said:

Maybe you'll believe the Rohloff company.

Not without any evidence. I don't even want to know what they charge for their "amazing lube", which
I'm guessing is inferior to chainsaw bar oil.

Quoted message said:

They say: "the inside of a chain, where dirt builds up, can't be cleaned anyway (in other words:
you remove the oil, but the dirt stays inside). So don't use degreasers, but only use something
that doesn't degrease for 100% like Diesel or petroleum". (from Rohloff tech info: chain
maintenance). Rohloff says so, as does Campagnolo. If you think a shiny chain is more important
then wear, you should clean it with degrease, but you'll only clean the outside, not the inside
where it really matters.

I don't care about the outside. I clean by vigorous agitation in mineral spirits. The cycling
industry is notorious for making patently false claims, so "X company that sells bicycle chains says
so" is not enough to convince me of anything.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Amoebit: Amoeba/rabbit cross; it can multiply and divide at the same time.

Benjamin Lewis said:

Wear is caused by fine dirt in the chain.

We agree on that.

Quoted message said:

My chain generally looks black, after I've been riding it for a while.

of course......

Quoted message said:

Then why doesn't my chain ever start to squeak until I ride in the rain?

Because the oil you use is probably too thin. The Rohloff oil won't wash off in the rain.

Quoted message said:

I generally have to oil sooner than 6500 km, since I ride in the rain frequently.

What do you think the climate is like in Holland? I oil every week, but I ride about 50-60km/day.

Quoted message said:

I prefer to clean my chain before I oil it, so I don't get *more* dirt inside.

So do I, but I just wipe off the chain.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps this is only a problem with one of these fancy bike-specific lubes.

Rohloff oil is what the name suggests: oil, but the viscosity has been optimized for bike chains.

Quoted message said:

Which statement is not correct? Which lab results? Where are they?

The statement that you wash the dirt out of your chain by cleaning it. It's not possible to get the
dirt out of the interior. Please write to the editors of the very serious TOUR magazine in Germany
and ask them about this. They'll certainly answer. Pictures of chains taken apart after testing have
appeared in the magazine. All tests were carried out by an independent lab.

Quoted message said:

Not without any evidence. I don't even want to know what they charge for their "amazing lube",
which I'm guessing is inferior to chainsaw bar oil.

Yeah, right. As I pointed out evidence has been published. Rohloff doesn't make an amazing lube, but
a very affordable chain oil. A liter of the stuff costs around $40 and will last a lifetime. But
please continue to believe what you want to believe without listening to Campagnolo or Rohloff. OR
do you have scientific evidence that your method is superior?

greets, Derk

so asked frequently that i sat down und wrote a piece about it and its in "DIY" here in bike.tech
search for "diy" and scroll. the i tried the dry lube when i began commuting on a ten speed. keeping
the drivetrain scrupulously clean, i found that a 15 mile ride used the dry lube that is after 15
miles so little dry lube was left that qualifiying the remainder as lubricating the drive system was
in error. longer rides produced a raw edge at the chainrings sides as in the raw edge produced when
sharpening a carbon steel knife blade orin other words the dry lube was mushrooming my very solid
steel SR chainrings. ugh!

What's the bid deal fellas!?

The way I see it is just stick anything on yer chain so long as it runs smoothly - I bet olive oil
would work for dry journeys. And when it shows even the slightest sign of wear just buy a new one -
Hell! They ain't expensive, and you're guaranteed a decent smooth running chain.

"g.daniels" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

so asked frequently that i sat down und wrote a piece about it and its in "DIY" here in bike.tech
search for "diy" and scroll. the i tried the dry lube when i began commuting on a ten speed.
keeping the drivetrain scrupulously clean, i found that a 15 mile ride used the dry lube that is
after 15 miles so little dry lube was left that qualifiying the remainder as lubricating the drive
system was in error. longer rides produced a raw edge at the chainrings sides as in the raw edge
produced when sharpening a carbon steel knife blade orin other words the dry lube was mushrooming
my very solid steel SR chainrings. ugh!

Quoted message said:

I expect this will have been discussed here at length but I have only been taking the group for a
short time and haven't seen it. What is the most efficient way to maintain and lubricate a bike
chain? Perhaps someone could point me to a site where this is discussed.

I think there are many different solutions to the chain lube problem.

I use White Lightening. It keeps the chain quite clean which is important to
me. In my years as a diesel mechanic I got a lifetime's worth of grime and stained hands so these
days, I avoid black oily messes at all costs.

You might have to lube your chain more often with White Lightening but you won't have to clean it
between replacements.

I also believe that trying to clean the chain is a good way to force grit and grime into the chain
so that the outside is cleaner but the inside has more contamination.

Jon Isaacs

Derk Drukker said:

Quoted message said:

Then why doesn't my chain ever start to squeak until I ride in the rain?

Because the oil you use is probably too thin. The Rohloff oil won't wash off in the rain.

Quoted message said:

I generally have to oil sooner than 6500 km, since I ride in the rain frequently.

What do you think the climate is like in Holland? I oil every week, but I ride about 50-60km/day.

Why do you have to oil every week? You claim your oil won't wash off in the rain. I've ridden 300 km
*in the rain* without my chain squeaking.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps this is only a problem with one of these fancy bike-specific lubes.

Rohloff oil is what the name suggests: oil, but the viscosity has been optimized for bike chains.

Viscosity of chainsaw bar oil is also optimized for bicycle chains.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Which statement is not correct? Which lab results? Where are they?

The statement that you wash the dirt out of your chain by cleaning
it. It's not possible to get the dirt out of the interior. Please write to the editors of the very
serious TOUR magazine in Germany and ask them about this. They'll certainly answer. Pictures
of chains taken apart after testing have appeared in the magazine. All tests were carried out
by an independent lab.

I've never claimed you can get *all* the dirt out; I just want to get loose dirt out, so it doesn't
form a grinding paste with the oil.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, right. As I pointed out evidence has been published. Rohloff doesn't make an amazing lube,
but a very affordable chain oil. A liter of the stuff costs around $40 and will last a lifetime.

A litre of chainsaw bar oil costs around $3. From what you said, I don't have to apply it any more
frequently, and perhaps less so.

Quoted message said:

But please continue to believe what you want to believe without listening to Campagnolo or
Rohloff. OR do you have scientific evidence that your method is superior?

Rohloff tries to sell me oil for ten times what it's worth without giving evidence of its
superiority, and you ask me to accept what they claim until *I* can provide proof that what I use is
better? Or do you also have independent lab results claiming that their oil outperforms chainsaw oil
in some way?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Amoebit: Amoeba/rabbit cross; it can multiply and divide at the same time.

Benjamin Lewis said:

Why do you have to oil every week? You claim your oil won't wash off in the rain. I've ridden 300
km *in the rain* without my chain squeaking.

I do this, because I believe that keeping the chain well oiled reduces wear: just like sandpaper.
When it's dry it takes off a lot of material, but when you add water it takes off less material. I
do this, because a mechanic I really trust (former Tour de France mechanic and now a Colnago dealer)
told me to oil every week. This way you can also check the chain for damage or whatever.

Quoted message said:

Viscosity of chainsaw bar oil is also optimized for bicycle chains.

I don't know the stuff, but if you say so I believe you.

Quoted message said:

A litre of chainsaw bar oil costs around $3. From what you said, I don't have to apply it any more
frequently, and perhaps less so.

What I do is maybe not necessary, but I prefer putting on too much oil. I put it on in the evening
and the next day I wipe off excess oil and after each ride I wipe it off again.

Quoted message said:

Rohloff tries to sell me oil for ten times what it's worth without giving evidence of its
superiority, and you ask me to accept what they claim until *I* can provide proof that what I use
is better? Or do you also have independent lab results claiming that their oil outperforms
chainsaw oil in some way?

I don't care if you buy this or prefer to use something that's completely free. I just say that I
have good experiences with it. It was the only thing that took the rattle out of my Connex chains.

The only thing I look at when deciding what to use is how long a chain lasts. I use the Rohloff
caliber for this btw. My chains lasted far longer using this oil, then when using derailleur oil and
sprays that really cost a lot, because you spay only a small part of it on the chain.

Greets, Derk

Derk Drukker said:

The only thing I look at when deciding what to use is how long a chain lasts. I use the Rohloff
caliber for this btw. My chains lasted far longer using this oil, then when using derailleur oil
and sprays that really cost a lot, because you spay only a small part of it on the chain.

There, we agree. You want lubrication on the inside, not the outside. I wipe off all the excess I
can after oiling.

I've never used a chain wear caliber; I find an Imperial scale ruler is quick and accurate (you
measure over 12 links, much more accurate than just calibrating over a few). Perhaps you only have
access to metric rulers in Holland, though.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Amoebit: Amoeba/rabbit cross; it can multiply and divide at the same time.

"Benjamin Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't care about the outside. I clean by vigorous

agitation in mineral

Quoted message said:

spirits. The cycling industry is notorious for making

patently false

Quoted message said:

claims, so "X company that sells bicycle chains says so"

is not enough to

Quoted message said:

convince me of anything.

I agree. It's easy to determine whether the inside is clean -- just work the links with your
fingers, and if there's any grit in there you can feel it. When you can flex the links without
feeling grit, the chain is clean.

I use a thin, strong solvent like acetone or parts cleaner, and shake the chain with it in a
mayonnaise jar. It takes several fluid changes, but only a few minutes and the results are
excellent.

Before Superlinks/Powerlinks came out I wasn't as thorough because it was too much trouble, plus
driving out pins on MTB chains increases the risk of breakage. But now that it's so easy to remove a
chain I clean them more often and more thoroughly, and they last *a lot* longer.

Matt O.