Advise for beginner

SRT said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also
possibly to cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

Hybrid (similar looks to mountain bike, but with road bike
wheels and tyres), or a road bike. That'll be the best part
of £200-£300. On the other hand, you could get a mountain
bike and fit slicks. It won't be as fast as a hybrid, but
you can find a lot more second hand mountain bikes in the ad
mag. Don't go to Halfords either, go to a proper bike shop.

Quoted message said:

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and
preferably brand new.

The bike will be used on the road.

Your best bet would be a Hybrid if you want inexpensive IMO.
I see an awful lot of expensive mountain bikes in the ad-mag
with things like "only ridden twice" in the ad, and a second
hand hardtail (ie, front suspension but no back suspension)
is your best bet for something cheap.

SRT said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also
possibly to cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and
preferably brand new.

The bike will be used on the road.

TIA.

I would link directly to the bike in question at Edinbugh
Cycle Co-op if I could without presenting you with an
annoying 'Cannot Set Cookies' message.

Anyhow, the site is here: edinburgh-edinburgh-Open ↗
bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/index.cfm click on Bikes > Edinburgh
& Revolution Bicycles 2004 > Edinburgh Hybrid Bikes 2004,
there's a couple ideal for commuting at just over £200.

Don't spend less than that on a new bike -- it's not worth
it -- or go secondhand.

SRT said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also
possibly to cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and
preferably brand new.

Whatever you do, don't fall for the adverts sometimes seen
in national newspapers of bikes for £50. THey'll have [censored]
and/or dangerous components, weigh the better part of half a
ton, will wear out/break in three months, and make your
cycling life a misery.

As others have said, you can buy a fair starter bike for
£200 or so. Make sure it has:

- aluminium wheel rims, not steel (which have all the
braking efficiency of a wet paper bag)
- mudguards, for that pleasantly dry riding experience.
- unless you're riding someplace hilly like Sheffield, huge
numbers of gears are not required.
- smooth-tread tyres, not knobbly ones.

- don't forget to factor lights, a decent lock (eg one
that's passed the "SoldSecure" standard), a basic toolkit,
and a track pump (like a stirrup pump) into the cost.

When you choose a bike for size:

- straddle the top crossbar just forward of the saddle, with
your feet flat on the floor. You should have clearance
under your crotch of at least half an inch for road riding
(much more for offroad mountain bikers)

- now, with a handy assistant to balance the bike upright,
sit on the saddle. Rotate the pedal until the ball (some
say the heel) of one foot is on the lowest pedal. The
saddle height should be adjustable such that that extended
leg is almost, but not quite, locked at the knee. That's
the optimum/most efficient saddle height.

- again with your handy assistant, sit on the saddle and
hold the bars. You should be comfortable. Urban riders
often prefer a more upright position for better visibility
in traffic. Longer distance/country commuters often prefer
a lower, more stretched out position (sometimes with the
aid of drop handlebars or "butterfly bars"😉 for reduced
wind resistance, but this can put more weight on the arms.

- If you have small hands, make sure that the brake levers
are easily reachable (or adjustable to be so).

Talk to local bike shop staff. Any decent bike shop will let
you take it out round the block/car park/park for a test
ride, leaving something suitable as security (car keys,
credit card, spouse, firstborn child, etc)

SRT said:

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and
preferably brand n=

ew.

Others have already said it, but I'll say it too so as to
hopefully=20 reinforce the idea. A new bike under about
=A3200 is quite likely to be =

the bicycle equivalent of a Lada. If it has any sort of
suspension or=20 disc brakes at this price level then it's
the bike equivalent of a=20 clapped out Lada with Go Faster
Stripes and a big spoiler. Or put=20 another way, "as
inexpensive as possible" means a false economy so it's=20
well worth spending a little more, into the "as inexpensive
as=20 reasonably sensible" category.

To be as inexpensive as reasonably sensible keep the feature
count low,=20 so the money goes on stuff that matters: a
good frame, decent=20 transmission and an acceptable saddle.

Something like this=20 ridgeback.co.uk200Open ↗
4/bike.asp?seriesid=3D21&index=3D2=20 should do the job. You
don't /need/ rack and mudguards but IMHO they're =

well worth it for a useful bike. The mudguards mean you
don't get=20 sprayed with water every time the road is wet
and the rack means you can =

have the bike frame take the weight of any luggage rather
than you,=20 which is /much/ more comfortable. You can
retrofit stuff like that but=20 in practice it tends to be
cheaper if you get it with the bike to start=20 with.

Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382
660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44
1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Suggestion - get a hold of cycling mags - I suggest Cycling+
and the CTC magazine are good ones as the emphasis in them
is not cycling as only a sport. Read, inwardly digest.

Online resources to look through include
sjscycles.comthornbrochure.aspOpen ↗
dawescycles.comdawescycles.comOpen ↗ (you can't go far wrong with a
Dawes - the Discovery range may be just what you are looking
for at reasonable cost)

I can understand you wanting inexpensive - but if
"inexpensive as possible and preferably brand new" equates
to cheap - *beware*. Cheap bikes are a false economy.
Honest. Been there, done that. Saw the light when I got a
decent bike that cost more money. Cheap can mean *heavy*,
badly put together, cheap nasty and easily breakable
components. Buying a decent bike can cost more initially,
but you are rewarded with a machine that can give you years
of service and be a pleasure to ride, which encourages you
to *want* to cycle more. *Cheap* bikes swifty put a person
off cycling.

If I was starting out cycling now and looking for a bike for
what you describe, at a reasonable price for what I'd be
getting, I'd be seriously considering a Dawes, such as a
Discovery or a Horizon.

The key thing with any bike is *fit*. Try bikes out for
size. Do not buy the first one you try out - try *lots* of
bikes before you make your decision. You may end up going
back to the one you first tried, but the value of sizing and
trying out bikes cannot be over-emphasised IMO

Also, if possible, find a local bike shop that is *not* a
Halfords. On personal experience, I cannot recommend buying
a bike from Halfords. Quality control of products is poor. I
will never buy a bike from that organisation again. They are
reasonably priced for basic stuff such as lights & helmets
(if you choose to wear a helmet). But, on one light at least
they are way overpriced [1]

If you post which part of the country you are located,
people here may well be able to recommend bike shops to
you where they've received good service. For example, if
you are in Norfolk, I highly recommend Specialized
Cycles in Connaught Road, Norwich (and you can get Dawes
there). Another good shop in Norwich is Pedal Revolution
see pedalrevolution.co.ukpedalrevolution.co.ukOpen ↗ The shop is in
Bethel Street.

Whilst buying a bike - think about the stuff that goes with
it. Locks for example - insurance policies often state a D-
lock is the type that must be used if you want your bike
covered against theft etc. Lights - a good front & rear
light is a *must* Also of help, if cycling in the dark, is
for you to wear reflectives, such as a reflective waistcoat.
Hampshire County Council have an online road safety shop,
which does stuff for remarkably reasonable prices. The web
addy is//www.shopcreator.com/mall/RoadSafetyOnline/topic/topicmenu-
1.stm For example, a fluorescent waistcost with wide
reflective strips is only a fiver.

Best of luck in finding a bike that is right for you and
have much happy pedalling.

Cheers, helen s

[1] The Cateye HL-EL 300 which is £26.39 from Cycle Express
<www.cycleexpress.co.uk> is over £40 in Halfords in
Norwich...

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel
is switched off--

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

I will never buy a bike from that organisation again.

I'm amazed you considered it in the first place. Didn't
Vernon even attempt to persuade you not to?

"SRT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also
possibly to cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and
preferably brand new.

The bike will be used on the road.

TIA.

Thanks for all your input. I think I should elaborate on my
situation further. I live in Shetland and consequently do
not have the opportunity to try out the bikes - there are no
real bike shops up here.

Also the bike I will be looking for as well as being used
for commuting would be used as a way of maintaining my
fitness. Are these compatible?

I would appreciate further recommendations of where to
buy from and your recommendations on specific models
to look for.

Regards, SRT

On Wed, 19 May 2004 09:55:58 +0100, Richard
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less): ...

Quoted message said:

As others have said, you can buy a fair starter bike for
£200 or so. Make sure it has:

- aluminium wheel rims, not steel (which have all the
braking efficiency of a wet paper bag)
- mudguards, for that pleasantly dry riding experience.
- unless you're riding someplace hilly like Sheffield, huge
numbers of gears are not required.

But do check for what the /lowest/ gear setting is.

My experience of bike-shop folk is that they are dismissive
of the new-to-cycling adult commuter.

(Edinburgh Bike Co-op were particularly dismissive saying
"yes the lowest set are called the granny gears and you
never use them"

Which was a) wrong b) incredibly condescending

It was thro' a patch where they were refusing to replace
faulty parts under warranty on a like-for-like basis, so
I was prone to being irritated with them anyway, but
even so...

Mind you, I just went there for the first time in about 8
years (I generally use Biketrax nowadays) yesterday, so time
must have healed my wound.

Did you know that the shop staff there don't know
about Martlet?

Quoted message said:

- smooth-tread tyres, not knobbly ones.

Of course, eventually the knobblies become /really/
smooth :-)

--
Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.srOpen ↗
Symbian/Epoc wiki: html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.netOpen ↗ Smalltalk
links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
html.dnsalias.netsmalltalkOpen ↗

SRT said:

"SRT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also
possibly to cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and
preferably brand new.

The bike will be used on the road.

TIA.

Thanks for all your input. I think I should elaborate on
my situation further. I live in Shetland and consequently
do not have the opportunity to try out the bikes - there
are no real bike shops up here.

No chance of braving the public transport system (shudder)
or driving to a shop on the mainland?

Quoted message said:

Also the bike I will be looking for as well as being used
for commuting would be used as a way of maintaining my
fitness. Are these compatible?

I'd say 20 miles 5 or 6 times a week would keep you pretty
fit without any extra riding. As for a bike to keep fit on,
the way I see it is that 10 miles on my mountain bike is
going to be harder work than if I went out and bought a road
bike for the same run, so I'd get fitter on a mountain bike.
As long as you can get comfy on the bike and enjoy riding
it, it's suitable for keeping fit on IMO. A mountain bike
does have the advantage that you're not restricted to the
road, though lots of people reckon you can do milder off
road stuff on a road bike. I've never owned a road bike so
I'm not going to argue with them. I only took up cycling a
month or two back, and I'm certainly a lot fitter than I was
before, lost a fair bit of weight, and I'm not doing
anything like the miles you'd be doing just on your commute.

SRT said:

Thanks for all your input. I think I should elaborate on
my situation further. I live in Shetland and consequently
do not have the opportunity to try out the bikes - there
are no real bike shops up here.

Then I'd ideally wait until you're on the mainland before
getting one. They don't cost much on the ferry, and though
the basic cost for you is quite a bit, IMHO you'd be better
off spending the money on a trip to Edinburgh Bike Co-op's
branch in Aberdeen and making sure you get a good machine
properly fitted for you than just taking a stab in the dark.

Quoted message said:

Also the bike I will be looking for as well as being used
for commuting would be used as a way of maintaining my
fitness. Are these compatible?

Absolutely. In fact it's not so much "compatible" as
"inevitable": you will maintain fitness if you cycle about.

Quoted message said:

I would appreciate further recommendations of where to
buy from and your recommendations on specific models to
look for.

As suggested above, Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op, which has a
branch in Aberdeen. They'll do mail order too if it really
isn't feasible to get there in person, and they do the
Ridgeback I previously mentioned (Speed '04) as well as
various other Sensible But Good choices. They also have a
good range of accessories like lights, pumps, etc. and, very
importantly, they Have Clues and will be likely to sell you
what's right for you. edinburgh-bicycle.co.ukedinburgh-bicycle.co.ukOpen ↗

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

The fit may well not use a granny ring or lots of gears,
but it's easily forgotten that when first getting on or
back on a bike in an unfit state, it can be of benefit to
have lots of gears as provided by a granny ring & nine-
speed block.

Though OTOH having 27 gears where you can get away with 3
(if they're the right ones, you really can) is just
something that a lot of people find confusing. And having a
gear system where high pressure changes have a habit of
throwing the chain, especially if you're not used to front
derailleurs and/or you don't have the highest spec bike on
the planet, is not great at all.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Gawnsoft said:

(Edinburgh Bike Co-op were particularly dismissive saying
"yes the lowest set are called the granny gears and you
never use them"

Which was a) wrong b) incredibly condescending

It was thro' a patch where they were refusing to replace
faulty parts under warranty on a like-for-like basis, so
I was prone to being irritated with them anyway, but
even so...

Mind you, I just went there for the first time in about 8
years (I generally use Biketrax nowadays) yesterday, so
time must have healed my wound.

Did you know that the shop staff there don't know about
Martlet?

It strikes me you're rather tarring everyone that works
for EBC with the same brush. Did you ask /all/ of them
about Eric the Half a Brain, did they /all/ say you never
use grannies?

I've had Saturday Staff syndrome at EBC before now, but if
you're in when it's not busy and find someone who knows
about your particular style of cycling then they are IME
very good. Don't forget they sell a wide range of bikes, and
if you get the laddish lad who's into bikes for downhill MTB
then he wouldn't have any use for grannies, wouldn't be
affected by EtHaB, or (as I found out) know a damn thing
about panniers. But that's not everyone there. And further
leaping to their defence, I've had exemplary customer
service there. When my 7 year old tourer cracked its frame
they replaced it FoC despite it being 5 years out of
warranty, and also transferred all the fits FoC /and/ gave
me a new headset FoC while they were at it.

EBC used to be my local bike shop when I stayed in
Marchmont, but I've kept going back for various things
because they earned more custom through good service. Nobody
manages 100% though, and if you can find any largeish sales
organisation that doesn't include at least one vaguely
clueless makeweight I'd be fairly surprised.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Peter Clinch said:

find confusing. And having a gear system where high
pressure changes have a habit of throwing the chain,
especially if you're not used to front derailleurs and/or
you don't have the highest spec bike on the planet, is not
great at all.

I don't know about the precise nuances of the Shimano range,
but the difference between cheapy-stuff on my cheap bike and
XT on my not-cheap bike is not major at the back, but night-and-
day at the front. I think the reason why some bikes use XT
at the back and LX at the front is that the only difference
is claimed to be weight, but an XT front mech was the most
noticable difference in the drive line between 200-quid bike
and 2000-quid bike.

ian

If you are determined to buy a really cheap new bike, be absolutely certain to avoid disc brakes and suspension (particulraly rear suspension) which will do nothing other than add weight and make cycling harder as well as failing in early course. However you deserve better than that. Just take out a mental loan against the money you will save by cycle commuting and not needing to go to a gym to get fit.

When advertising second hand bikes people seem to ascribe value by the number of gears. Even the cheapest bike can have 24 gears. What should be of interest to you is overall weight and quality of components. eg Ed bike co op courier fitted with mudguards would be a good bet. It only has eight gears but I presume you are not too hilly and by only having one chainring by the pedals weight and maintainance are reduced.

Personally, for a windy place like Shetland, i would get a bike with drop handle bars, but if you are new to cycling you may prefer a more upright style.

When you do get your new bike do make sure you keep up with basic maintainance, checking your brakes regularly, keeping your tyres inflated to the right pressure, and putting a bit of lubricant on the chain. doing these simple tasks will ensure you enjoy your cycling far more. Good luck and enjoy it.

oh,

and there is a bike buying guide here:

http://www.cyclingscotland.org/

On Wed, 19 May 2004 14:48:37 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less): ...

Quoted message said:

It strikes me you're rather tarring everyone that works for
EBC with the same brush. Did you ask /all/ of them about
Eric the Half a Brain, did they /all/ say you never use
grannies?

I'm going to deal with them seperately, as I think they're
very different issues.

(First, I'll get Martlet out of the way - it's irrelevant to
the OP of this thread after all.

I only checked with one menber of staff, but his view was
that it was not generally known in the shop - it had
never come up at any point he was around, and he reckoned
it was the sort of thing that would have become part of
staff chats.

I'll find out about the generic level of Martlet awareness
at EBC soon, as it's going to be a staff meeting issue now
(I mentioned how the Martlet bill might have the potential
for criminalising bike shop staff).

Now for the staff condescension.

Quoted message said:

I've had Saturday Staff syndrome at EBC before now, but if
you're in when it's not busy and find someone who knows
about your particular style of cycling then they are IME
very good.

It wasn't Saturday Staff Syndrome, quite the reverse.

It was relatively 'senior' staff - I got referred to him by
junior staff because it was during my warranty hassles.

(If you /really/ want, I'll tell you exactly who by email,
and you can judge for yourself).

First of all, my long term boycott of the shop was for them
not honouring the warranty with like-for-like replacements
of faulty parts, (back in '94 when I went from adult non-
cyclist to commuter cyclist), not for condescension.

But when I originally bought my bike there, I did feel a
bit like I was dealt in a rather 'what do you mean, you
don't know what bike you want?' when I went in with my 'I'd
like a bike for urban commuting. I've not cycled for 10
years.' query.

I had put this down to the fact that I was a bit
intimidated.

But on taking friends and wife for the same experience, I
began to feel that it wasn't just me.

The 'granny gear' incident was imv, betrayed a mentality
that was not geared to dealing with adult 'returners', just
symptomatically thoughtless, imo, betraying a 'we sell bikes
here - to cyclists' attitude. One that forgets what it was
like to go from adult non-cyclist to adult cyclist.

So not Saturday Staff syndrome. What I'm describing is, IMO,
the opposite effect. Quite the reverse.

The more experienced the cyclist, the better the staff will
be for them.

Quoted message said:

Don't forget they sell a wide range of bikes, and if you
get the laddish lad who's into bikes for downhill MTB then
he wouldn't have any use for grannies, wouldn't be
affected by EtHaB, or (as I found out) know a damn thing
about panniers. But that's not everyone there.

Exactly. So 'we call the bottom gears granny gears because
only a granny would ever need to use them' to a new cyclist
who is using their granny gears a lot is a bit
condescending.

Principally becuase it betrays the assumption that anyone in
the shop should already be 'into bikes', as you put.

'By people who are into bikes, for people who are into
bikes.' is exactly the attitude I think it betrays, and that
is true of many bike shops.

Quoted message said:

And further leaping to their defence, I've had exemplary
customer service there. When my 7 year old tourer cracked
its frame they replaced it FoC despite it being 5 years out
of warranty, and also transferred all the fits FoC /and/
gave me a new headset FoC while they were at it.

I'm glad you did. Me, I spent months on the warranty
hassles, and if I'd had anything like that level of service
I would not be grumbling.

My parts were not replaced despite /still being under
warranty/.

(I had thumb-shifters. I had deliberately chosen their own-
brand mid-range or mid-range+ because the range one below it
had thumb shifters. They failed after a few months.

EBC would only replace them with the top of bar shifters
from the range below. The statement made 'but it would be
more expensive for us to get in the type that have broken'
was the one that really stuck in my craw.

Or if they'd offered some minor compensation to cover for
the fact that they were downgrading the bike I'd bought from
them, I suspect i'd have been easily 'bought off'.

Quoted message said:

EBC used to be my local bike shop when I stayed in
Marchmont, but I've kept going back for various things
because they earned more custom through good service.
Nobody manages 100% though, and if you can find any
largeish sales organisation that doesn't include at least
one vaguely clueless makeweight I'd be fairly surprised.

Pete.

--
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"Gawnsoft" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'll find out about the generic level of Martlet awareness
at EBC soon, as it's going to be a staff meeting issue now
(I mentioned how the Martlet bill might have the potential
for criminalising bike shop staff).

You do know it isn't actually Martlet? (just checking -
people often get thrown by such minor errors/jokes)

cheers, clive

Richard said:

As others have said, you can buy a fair starter bike for
£200 or so. Make sure it has:

- aluminium wheel rims, not steel (which have all the
braking efficiency of a wet paper bag)
- mudguards, for that pleasantly dry riding experience.
- unless you're riding someplace hilly like Sheffield,
huge numbers of gears are not required.
- smooth-tread tyres, not knobbly ones.

A Raleigh Chopper fits that spec (they now have alloy
rims - I checked in Halfords)! You'll be the hippest cat
in the 'hood.

SRT said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also
possibly to cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and
preferably brand new.

The bike will be used on the road.

TIA.

If you look here

groups.google.co.ukgroupsOpen ↗
8&selm=j8sa00pasno24s47mf9mhs6r01shvvl303%404ax.com&rnum=1

You'll find some advice to a novice rider that I posted a
while ago.