Extra spokes & Chainwhip?

I always carry extra spokes but I carry a hypercracker, a
tiny tool which will get off cassettes by lever against
the bike frame. I've had to use it maybe three times in
40+ tours.

200a said:

How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
extra spokes on a long tour?

Ditto what Garry wrote- since I use a wheel with a Shimano
cassette, I carry a HyperCracker and a few spokes. I also
carry a FiberFix spoke which can be used without taking the
cassette off, in case a spoke breaks in a torrential
downpour or where it's really cold. However, with properly
built wheels I haven't had a spoke break in years.

"200a" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
extra spokes on a long tour?

Do you have these tools now? If you do and are competent
with them, then you might consider it. If not, why lug
around something you can't work?

Also, consider the extra bulk and weight of the tools. To
me, they are just heavy security blankets. I figure if I
have a problem on the road, worst case scenario, I'll call a
tow truck!

If your spokes are unusual, then it would be common sense to
stick some it.

I start out with a very well maintained bike with quality
components.

"200a" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
extra spokes on a long tour?

Touring where?

I carry a few spokes - figure for the others, hitchike if
necessary to nearest bike shop.

'Course, I've largely toured in the U.S. midwest - would
change my strategy in Mexico....

J.W.

Quoted message said:

How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
extra spokes on a long tour?

I carry extra spokes, but not freewheel tool or chainwhip.
I've had spokes break on tours, but always have been able to
ride to a shop and then have the spokes be replaced.

I've also had 4 rims crack on tour, and once had a hub go
out and once had a frame crack. On that count:
1. rim #1, Alaska Highway ~mile 500. Called nearest bike
shop, had them build a wheel and send it up.
2. rim #2, Kenora, Ontario not far out of town. Cycled to
bike shop.
3. rim #3, Corner Brook, Newfoundland. Cycled to bike shop.
4. rim #4, Outback Western Australia. Cycled ~180 miles
after cracks started appearing in the rim, to Broome, WA.
5. frame #1, Outback Western Australia, Duct Tape and cycled
~180 miles to Geraldton, WA. Flew back to USA to pick up
a replacement bicycle.
6. hub #1, North Island, NZ, walked for a while and caught a
ride with a few former Samoans in a fruit truck.

--mev, Mike Vermeulen

anonymous said:

Quoted message said:

How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
extra spokes on a long tour?

www-www-Open ↗
math.science.unitn.it/Bike/General/Packing_List.html

Quoted message said:

Do you have these tools now? If you do and are competent
with them, then you might consider it. If not, why lug
around something you can't work?

If you are not mechanically self sufficient, you are not
ready to go on a "long tour" or for that matter a typical
weekend ride in the SF Bay area where many roads are far
from assistance and many interesting roads are not open to
motor vehicles, so there is no hitch hike option.

Quoted message said:

Also, consider the extra bulk and weight of the tools. To
me, they are just heavy security blankets. I figure if I
have a problem on the road, worst case scenario, I'll call
a tow truck!

Typically, there is no cell phone signal in our area west
of the coast range (most of the interesting bicycling, or
east of the east bay hills, an uninhabited areas behind
MT. Hamilton.

mthamilton.ucolick.orghamcamOpen ↗

I suspect you don't take long day rides or go touring or you
wouldn't be so smug about the issue.

bicyclinglife.comSierraSpring.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

If your spokes are unusual, then it would be common sense
to stick some it.

All spokes are unusual when you are underway.

Quoted message said:

I start out with a very well maintained bike with quality
components.

Don't fool yourself. Bicycles have failures. Know how to
handle them.

tinyurl.comadlsOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anonymous writes:

I suspect you don't take long day rides or go touring or
you wouldn't be so smug about the issue.

Wrong again.

I also don't take a pocket calculator or a nail clipper as
you recommend. I would strongly urge anyone to learn to do
math in their head and brave the odd hangnail on the road
until help could be found.

I also agree with you about cell phone coverage. I rarely
carry one myself because coverage is spotty. I walk to a
phone or get a ride.

You could choose to carry a spare for every part on your
bike along with the tool to do every job, or, you could
choose to carry none. Most of us draw the line somewhere in
between. The air of superiority you give to where you have
drawn the line is plain silly.

Back to chainwhips and etc. Several other posters have
expressed opinions and experiences similiar to mine. But I
would advise *you*, after expressing to me what you have, to
never leave home without a chainwhip, freewheel tool, an
assortment of unusual underway spokes, a nailclipper, and a
pocket calculator. You just never know!

"TM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Back to chainwhips and etc. Several other posters have
expressed opinions and experiences similiar to mine. But I
would advise *you*, after expressing to me what you have,
to never leave home without a chainwhip, freewheel tool,
an assortment of unusual underway spokes, a nailclipper,
and a pocket calculator. You just never know!

Apparently you have not read much of Jobst's posts here, or
his ride reports. If you did you would be aware that he is
quite capable of taking care of himself, in remote areas, if
he experiences most types of failures. Was not that many
years ago that his report of one of his trips in the Alps
talked about having to rebuild a hub on a bike (I think it
was his son's) along the side of the road; about all he
neglected to have along with him was some grease, but he
made do with some suntan lotion until they could get to a
town and get some grease.

I get grief when in the low lands around here for the size
of the tool bag on my bike, but I ride those same quiet
mountain roads that Jobst talks about, and carrying a few
tools so you do not have to hike 10 miles or more to where
you can get some help is a small price to pay. I think with
your attitude that you had better hope that someone like
Jobst or myself stumble upon you when you are miles from
nowhere and experience a failure; either that or get the SAG
wagon to shadow you everywhere.

- rick

"Rick Warner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently you have not read much of Jobst's posts here,
or his ride reports.

Apparently you did not read his reply to my post.

If you did you would be aware that he is quite capable of

Quoted message said:

taking care of himself,

Then why are you taking care of him now?

Quoted message said:

of failures. Was not that many years ago that his report
of one of his trips in the Alps talked about having to
rebuild a hub on a bike (I think it was his son's) along
the side of the road; about all he neglected to have along
with him was some grease, but he made do with some suntan
lotion until they could get to a town and get some grease.

I would have needed more than grease at town, but I would
have made it.

Quoted message said:

I get grief when in the low lands around here for the
size of the tool bag on my bike, but I ride those same
quiet mountain roads that Jobst talks about, and carrying
a few tools

What if someone chastised you for carrying too few tools?
How do you know you have enough? Where do you draw the line?
Do you simply have the right amount because Jobst won't
shout you down?

so you do not have to hike 10

Quoted message said:

miles or more to where you can get some help is a small
price to pay.

You forgot to add "for me". There are many others for whom
it is not a "small" price to pay offset an unlikely risk. I
am one of those.

Quoted message said:

I think with your attitude

My attitude is fine. I never questioned Jobst's competency
to make bicycle repairs or chastised him for carrying too
many tools as you imply in your post. Quite the contrary, he
questioned my ability to ride precisely because my tool bag
contained the wrong amount of tools! Funny, that makes him
guilty of the very offences you are accussing me of
committing. I won't hold my breath waiting for your reply
correcting his attitude.

that you had better hope that someone like

Quoted message said:

Jobst or myself stumble upon you when you are miles from
nowhere and experience a failure;

If I had a breakdown I would be delighted to see anyone who
was helpful. Neither one of you have given me the impression
that you would qualify. I may be wrong.

either that or get the SAG wagon to shadow you

Quoted message said:

everywhere.

No. That is not the only alternative. If you choose to
believe that you need to carry a tool kit containing more
tools than mine, fine. Please don't patronize me because I
do not agree with your selection. You speak of these lonely
roads, but what about desolate single track? I do not know a
single mountain biker that carries a chainwhip and etc., yet
you guys ride some desolate road and feel you are like Lewis
and Clark!

"TM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Rick Warner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Apparently you have not read much of Jobst's posts here,
or his ride reports.

Apparently you did not read his reply to my post.

Apparently I did. You just have such a chip on your
shoulder, for some reason, that you seem to have lost a
degree of rationality. Jobst merely pointed out that the
option of waiting for a tow truck, which you had opined was
a valid option, is not an option in many places and that if
you choose to believe that is an option that perhaps you
should stick to riding in places where services are more
readily available.

Quoted message said:

If you did you would be aware that he is quite capable of

Quoted message said:

taking care of himself,

Then why are you taking care of him now?

I am not taking care of him, just pointing out that Jobst is
quite knowledgable and experienced. Your credentials are
unknown, his are quite public.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of failures. Was not that many years ago that his report
of one of his trips in the Alps talked about having to
rebuild a hub on a bike (I think it was his son's) along
the side of the road; about all he neglected to have
along with him was some grease, but he made do with some
suntan lotion until they could get to a town and get
some grease.

I would have needed more than grease at town, but I would
have made it.

Perhaps. I would wager not very easily.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I get grief when in the low lands around here for the
size of the tool bag on my bike, but I ride those same
quiet mountain roads that Jobst talks about, and
carrying a few tools

What if someone chastised you for carrying too few tools?
How do you know you have enough? Where do you draw the
line? Do you simply have the right amount because Jobst
won't shout you down?

Hard to say what is enough, but you should have sufficient
tools, and knowledge, to be able to get yourself going again
for most types of failures short of a frame or hub falling
apart. Does not take many tools.

Quoted message said:

so you do not have to hike 10

Quoted message said:

miles or more to where you can get some help is a small
price to pay.

You forgot to add "for me". There are many others for whom
it is not a "small" price to pay offset an unlikely risk.
I am one of those.

Not all that unlikely when you ride 6,000-15,000 miles a
year. You ride that much, even on quality components, you
will have breakdowns.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think with your attitude

My attitude is fine. I never questioned Jobst's competency
to make bicycle repairs or chastised him for carrying too
many tools as you imply in your post. Quite the contrary,
he questioned my ability to ride precisely because my tool
bag contained the wrong amount of tools!

No. He questioned the wisdom of long rides in remote
areas without proper equipment. And tried to get the
message across, the one you keep ignoring, that tow
trucks are not everywhere so planning that as an escape
is not a wise strategy.

Quoted message said:

If I had a breakdown I would be delighted to see anyone
who was helpful. Neither one of you have given me the
impression that you would qualify. I may be wrong.

Actually I am quite helpful on the road. I have given helped
many, given out CO2 cartridges, tubes, and patch kits to
strangers, 'fixed' a bent derailleur hanger to get a rider
back on the road - then gave them money for the phone once
they got back to civilization, and many more. I bet Jobst
has helped many folks in his years.

Quoted message said:

either that or get the SAG wagon to shadow you

Quoted message said:

everywhere.

No. That is not the only alternative. If you choose to
believe that you need to carry a tool kit containing more
tools than mine, fine. Please don't patronize me because I
do not agree with your selection. You speak of these
lonely roads, but what about desolate single track? I do
not know a single mountain biker that carries a chainwhip
and etc., yet you guys ride some desolate road and feel
you are like Lewis and Clark!

You have no idea what tools I carry, yet you seem to think
you have such knowledge. Jobst may carry a chainwhip, since
his bike has a freewheel. I have one bike left with a
freewheel, but I only ride that around town so carry just a
basic tube and patch kit on that setup. On my touring bike I
carry a very small hypercracker instead to remove/install
cassettes. And spokes and a spoke wrench. And stuff for
chain repair. And a couple of box wrenches, a couple of cone
wrenches, and an allen wrench set. The wrench for the
couplers on my bike. Small screwdriver. No one is making
this out as Lewis and Clark, just some old guys who do not
like to carry their bikes for 20 miles on their shoulders.

Most single-trackers I know of are much closer to services
than Jobst or I are on long rides. Doesn't take much to
coast back to the ski lift. And few mountain bikers will
need a chainwhip; do not know the last time I saw a mountain
bike with a freewheel being ridden other than around town.

- rick

"Rick Warner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

Apparently I did. You just have such a chip on your
shoulder, for some reason, that you seem to have lost a
degree of rationality.

The tone of my reply was consistent with the tone with which
I was addressed. Again, you keep making my points!

My original post told the op that if he did not know how to
use the tools he was considering taking to leave them home.
I think that advice is better than what Job offered, namely,
stay home. In a nutshell, this is the difference.

In a worse case scenario outside help will be available in
most cases. You wish to consider only the small percent of
the time when it will not and argue that point. I think that
portrays long rides and touring as unnessarily more
dangerous than it is and, in effect, serves to frighten
people away. I desire the opposite, namely, as many people
enjoying the struggles of the road as much as I do.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Rick Warner) said:

Jobst may carry a chainwhip, since his bike has a
freewheel.

Same here, but I just need the Hyperglide remover -- no
chainwhip. And a homemade 'pocket vice' to fit on the
freewheel remover, so I can get a wrench on it, or a
lever in it.

But with the freewheel, I've learned to pack a spare axle
along with the other repair stuff.

nd I don't even travel all that far afield. But a busted
axle can be so heartbreakingly crippling when you can't
replace it.

My nail clippers have been a godsend, especially for
roadside flat repairs.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

TM said:

In a worse case scenario outside help will be available in
most cases. You wish to consider only the small percent of
the time when it will not and argue that point. I think
that portrays long rides and touring as unnessarily more
dangerous than it is and, in effect, serves to frighten
people away. I desire the opposite, namely, as many people
enjoying the struggles of the road as much as I do.

Getting more people out is a laudable goal. I would argue
that it is far worse to lead someone into a false sense of
security that help is 'available in most cases' than to warn
them of the dangers of riding into unknown areas poorly
equipped. In many areas, help is not readily available and
the rider needs to have some basic repair skills and some
basic tools in order to minimize the risk of being stranded
far from nowhere without any options other than picking up
the bike and carrying it. Hefting a bike on one's shoulder
for 10 miles is much more demoralizing than to be told that
you should prepare yourself before heading out. Being told
to 'be prepared' should not be frightening to anyone.

BTW, in Jobst's case, I think that being in more remote
areas is not a small percentage of the time, it is more the
rule than the exception. I rarely see him riding near town;
if I see him on his bike it is either on some remote
mountain road, or on the way to some remote mountain road.
Read his recent ride reports of his rides in the Santa
Lucias (subject is something like Carmel Valley or
something, though he repeats in the thread on Big Sur) or
the Santa Cruz Mtns (Last Chance Road). If you want some
real fun, read the report of him, Tom Ritchey, and a bunch
of others riding to Gazos Creek (web.archive.orgwebOpen ↗
/20040515101135/geocities.comgaOpen ↗
zos.html) or the one about the ride to Waddell Creek (http:-
//web.archive.org/web/20040515101234/geocities.c-geocities.c-Open ↗
om/rayhosler/jobst/waddell.htm).

- rick

"Rick Warner" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message

Quoted message said:

Being told to 'be prepared' should not be frightening to
anyone.

You know it is quite tedious when you continue to assign
conclusions to the post in discussion that are not found in
it and then defend those conclusions like that is what this
is about. "If you are not mechanically self sufficient" is
not the same as be prepared and you know it. No where did I
advocate not being prepared. In fact, I said if you know how
to use the tools consider taking them.

Clearly then, the objectional part of my post had to be the
fact that I do not accept being mechanically self sufficient
as a prerequisite to riding. I'll say it again, you do not
have to be a bike mechanic to take a tour any more than you
have to be an auto mechanic to take a road trip.

Quoted message said:

BTW, in Jobst's case,

In this case he jumped on me and clear in his reply is the
notion that someone has to be 'mechanically self
sufficient' to take a tour. That eliminates the vast
majority of riders that I have encountered on self
supported tours not to mention those out riding long days.
It sends a message far stronger than be prepared and the
link he posted, if you read it, goes so far as to recommend
a pocket calculator and a nail clipper as essential to the
'prepared' tour or day rider. I do not agree these items
are essential and never will.

Your opinion is that hiking a bike worse than death. My
opinion is that hiking a bike is better than sitting on the
couch. I think the mistake you've made is to confuse Jobst's
opinion with 'the right and true way'. There are hundreds of
people doing things differently than both you and me and
having a ball safely.

From this day forward, however, I will have a special
question for every senior gentleman who looks to be serious
about cycling, "Pardon me, do you have a nail clipper?". The
answer to that seems to say a lot about a person!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article
<[email hidden]>, Rick

Warner said:

You have no idea what tools I carry, yet you seem to think
you have such knowledge. Jobst may carry a chainwhip, since
his bike has a freewheel. I have one bike left with a
freewheel, but I only ride that around town so carry just a
basic tube and patch kit on that setup. On my touring bike
I carry a very small hypercracker instead to remove/install
cassettes.

_ You don't need a chainwhip to remove freewheels, just a
long cresent wrench and the right freewheel tool. Chainwhips
are needed for cassette removal if you don't have a
hypercracker.

_ Booekr C. Bense

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<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Quoted message said:

_ You don't need a chainwhip to remove freewheels, just a
long cresent wrench and the right freewheel tool.
Chainwhips are needed for cassette removal if you don't
have a hypercracker.

_ Booekr C. Bense

Who said anything about needing the chainwhip for removal? I
sure did not. You need the chainwhip to get the freewheel
back on tightly. And chainwhips are not needed for cassette
removal, even if you do not have a hypercracker (but why
would you not have a hypercracker? Small and light). My
Stein freehub wrench holds the cassette tightly while I use
the removal tool and crescent wrench to loosen the cassette
lockring when I am in the shop. Only thing I use chainwhips
for these days are tightening on the freewheels and taking
cogs off freewheels.

- rick

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]-
rd.edu> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Quoted message said:

_ You don't need a chainwhip to remove freewheels, just
a long cresent wrench and the right freewheel tool.
Chainwhips are needed for cassette removal if you don't
have a hypercracker.

_ Booekr C. Bense

Who said anything about needing the chainwhip for removal?
I sure did not. You need the chainwhip to get the
freewheel back on tightly.

Pedaling does that just fine for me.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

On 18 May 2004 11:24:19 -0700, [email hidden] (Rick

Warner) said:

Who said anything about needing the chainwhip for removal?
I sure did not. You need the chainwhip to get the freewheel
back on tightly.

Why? Pedalling doesn't tighten it enough?

Quoted message said:

And chainwhips are not needed for cassette removal, even if
you do not have a hypercracker (but why would you not have
a hypercracker? Small and light). My Stein freehub wrench
holds the cassette tightly while I use the removal tool and
crescent wrench to loosen the cassette lockring when I am
in the shop. Only thing I use chainwhips for these days are
tightening on the freewheels and taking cogs off
freewheels.

How does your stein freehub wrench compare in volume and
mass to a chainwhip? If it's not lighter, I'd prefer the
chainwhip...more versatile. I'm sure there are some very
lightweight chainwhips out there, and if not, a homemade one
would be easy to do lightly. Anyway, I thought this thread
was about equipment for touring, not tools in shops...
--
Rick "Whip that unruly chain into line!" Onanian

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 18 May 2004 11:24:19 -0700, [email hidden]

(Rick Warner) said:

Who said anything about needing the chainwhip for
removal? I sure did not. You need the chainwhip to get
the freewheel back on tightly.

Why? Pedalling doesn't tighten it enough?

Not when the bike is in the stand and the wheel on the
bench. Read carefully, digest the entire thread, do not leap
to conclusions, etc. etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And chainwhips are not needed for cassette removal, even
if you do not have a hypercracker (but why would you not
have a hypercracker? Small and light). My Stein freehub
wrench holds the cassette tightly while I use the removal
tool and crescent wrench to loosen the cassette lockring
when I am in the shop. Only thing I use chainwhips for
these days are tightening on the freewheels and taking
cogs off freewheels.

How does your stein freehub wrench compare in volume and
mass to a chainwhip? If it's not lighter, I'd prefer the
chainwhip...more versatile.

Who cares about size in the shop? The Stein tool is much
easier to use when dealing with a very tight lockring,
the old 'squeeze the wrenches together' trick, sinilar
to squeezing the wrenches together to loosen a tight
headset locknut.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I thought this thread was about equipment for
touring, not tools in shops...

Right you are, but I was not the person that inferred, quite
incorrectly and without any evidence to support such an
incorrect assumption, that if I mentioned someone carrying a
chainwhip that I must be talking of freewheel removal. If
you bothered to read the thread you would see I was merely
pointing out the error of the poster's ways. Now if you go
back to the original thread, read the whole thing, you will
see I said that I do not carry a chainwhip. I said, also,
that I do not ride a freewheel on tour. I merely pointed out
that one poster *might* carry one since I knew he does tour
with a freewheel. My chainwhip stays in the shop, and gets
little use. I enumerated the tools I take on tour, tools now
set aside to be packed and schlepped to Italy in the near
future, where I hope to use a few tools for
assembly/disassembly but that some tools (e.g., spoke wrench
and cassette cracker) sit in the bags and do not see the
light of day for the next month.

- rick