Ready to resume Long Runs and Speed?

James:

You probably know this already, but what the heck...

Be gradual. First get your base back up, don't mess with
much speed, other than the occasional 7'ish pace. This may
take two to three weeks. Never increase mileage and
intensity at the same time!

When you're used to the distance again, incorporate a few
(very mild) fartlecks of 3-5 minutes a couple of times a
week. Then gradually increase the tempo. If you do it
gradually, you'll be back to where you were after 4 weeks,
I'd guess.

I'd keep up with the ice and stretching throughout. Just a
couple of 3-5 minute sessions per day.

--Dan

(All standard disclaimers apply)

"TopCounsel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040511195102.11161.00001152@mb-
m14.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

After partly tearing my right calf where it joins the
achilles on April 3

(5

Quoted message said:

weeks ago), I have been having what I would call a fairly
successful

rehab: I

Quoted message said:

have now resumed running without heel lifts and without
post-run ice, and

I am

Quoted message said:

doing my regular runs at about 8:15 - 8:30 pace.

However, I have NOT resumed longer weekend runs, nor have
I pushed my

speed

Quoted message said:

beyond an occasional short spurt to maybe 7:00 or
7:15 pace.

Would like to do both, and I am more afraid of the speed
than the

distance,

Quoted message said:

though I know that either fatigue or extra force can put
me at risk for re-injury.

I am currently running between 5.3 - 6.6 miles more or
less 5 days a week,

and

Quoted message said:

want to get back to 45- 50/week with a run of 1/2-M
or more on

Sat./Sundays. I

Quoted message said:

want to feel comfortable running at 6:00 - 6:30 pace more
or less for

stretches

Quoted message said:

of a mile or two, as this is what I've grown used to
before injury and I

enjoy

Quoted message said:

running at that pace for part of my runs.

Suggestions from others who've torn muscles and crossed
through this

tentative,

Quoted message said:

nervous phase of needing to test the waters? The last
thing I want to do

is

Quoted message said:

rip it again. My calf no longer gives me any pain, but it
does feel

somehow

Quoted message said:

"different." I think maybe there is a healing process
(internal

scarring?)

Quoted message said:

that has altered it in some way, but not necessarily a
bad way.

Quoted message said:

Never increase mileage and intensity at the same time!

A good reminder of something I may otherwise have ignored.

Quoted message said:

When you're used to the distance again, incorporate a few
(very mild) fartlecks of 3-5 minutes a couple of times a
week. Then gradually increase

the tempo.

Get the distance fully back first, then. I think this is
probably wise, since the speed would be the more likely
reinjury risk.

Quoted message said:

I'd keep up with the ice

I know this is probably best, but once the pain died out,
I've gotten lazy about wearing the gelpack. Will try to be a
better patient.

Thanks, Dan.

Wrong Wrong Wrong. The advice you are giving here is
amateurish. It's like random [censored] and has no principle
behind it. There is a principle behind improvement and you
just don't get it. Increasing mileage and intensity at the
same time is not the point at all. It's not really
interrelated unless you are trying to increase your mileage
to 200 miles per week at which point the mileage itself can
be a big drain. Fartleck is not the way to go for maximum
improvement. That's because you cannot be as fresh as you
want to be when doing so since you are including them in
part of your long run. Secondly, by doing fartlek, you are
leaving yourself more drained for the rest of the long run
you will have to continue. That could result in injury.

There is a point to running fast and by doing so in the
middle or your run and not being as fresh as you could be
will result in not getting the most benefit out of it.
You won't run the fartlek as fast as you could if you
were fresh on a pure speed workout. That's where your
flaw lies. He will get more benefits by doing a speed
workout if he does it properly but obviously he is not
doing it properly or he wouldn't get injured all the
time. That's where his problem lies. All the other stuff
you said is just plain garbage.

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:<[email hidden]-
.earthlink.net>...

Quoted message said:

James:

You probably know this already, but what the heck...

Be gradual. First get your base back up, don't mess with
much speed, other than the occasional 7'ish pace. This may
take two to three weeks. Never increase mileage and
intensity at the same time!

When you're used to the distance again, incorporate a few
(very mild) fartlecks of 3-5 minutes a couple of times a
week. Then gradually increase the tempo. If you do it
gradually, you'll be back to where you were after 4 weeks,
I'd guess.

I'd keep up with the ice and stretching throughout. Just a
couple of 3-5 minute sessions per day.

--Dan

(All standard disclaimers apply)

"TopCounsel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040511195102.11161.00001152@mb-
m14.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

After partly tearing my right calf where it joins the
achilles on April 3

(5

Quoted message said:

weeks ago), I have been having what I would call a
fairly successful

rehab: I

Quoted message said:

have now resumed running without heel lifts and without
post-run ice, and

I am

Quoted message said:

doing my regular runs at about 8:15 - 8:30 pace.

However, I have NOT resumed longer weekend runs, nor
have I pushed my

speed

Quoted message said:

beyond an occasional short spurt to maybe 7:00 or
7:15 pace.

Would like to do both, and I am more afraid of the speed
than the

distance,

Quoted message said:

though I know that either fatigue or extra force can put
me at risk for re-injury.

I am currently running between 5.3 - 6.6 miles more or
less 5 days a week,

and

Quoted message said:

want to get back to 45- 50/week with a run of 1/2-M or
more on

Sat./Sundays. I

Quoted message said:

want to feel comfortable running at 6:00 - 6:30 pace
more or less for

stretches

Quoted message said:

of a mile or two, as this is what I've grown used to
before injury and I

enjoy

Quoted message said:

running at that pace for part of my runs.

Suggestions from others who've torn muscles and crossed
through this

tentative,

Quoted message said:

nervous phase of needing to test the waters? The last
thing I want to do

is

Quoted message said:

rip it again. My calf no longer gives me any pain, but
it does feel

somehow

Quoted message said:

"different." I think maybe there is a healing process
(internal

scarring?)

Quoted message said:

that has altered it in some way, but not necessarily a
bad way.

You know, old Mac may be right. Rip off 20 x 400 for maximum
improvement. Now, that's running! This transitional fartleck
thing is for wusses.

Oh, and don't forget the liposuction. (But for maximum
training effect, do it the morning of your next race).
Remember, too that the brain is about 3 lbs of fat.

And don't forget that you can lose 4 lbs easy if you don't
drink for a day. As a bonus, your hematocrit will
increase...

Good luck, :-)

--Dan

"TopCounsel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040512121054.15636.00001155@mb-
m14.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Never increase mileage and intensity at the same time!

A good reminder of something I may otherwise have ignored.

Quoted message said:

When you're used to the distance again, incorporate a few
(very mild) fartlecks of 3-5 minutes a couple of times a
week. Then gradually

increase

Quoted message said:

the tempo.

Get the distance fully back first, then. I think this is
probably wise,

since

Quoted message said:

the speed would be the more likely reinjury risk.

Quoted message said:

I'd keep up with the ice

I know this is probably best, but once the pain died out,
I've gotten lazy about wearing the gelpack. Will try to be
a better patient.

Thanks, Dan.

On 12 May 2004 00:14:51 -0700, [email hidden] (macelroy)

Quoted message said:

Wrong Wrong Wrong. The advice you are giving here is
amateurish.

Stop teasing them. It's not fair!

Quoted message said:

It's like random [censored] and has no principle behind it.

Oh, there is. He'll produce a reference to a paper. That
means it *must* be ok, right Donny?

Quoted message said:

Fartleck is not the way to go for maximum improvement.

You m-a-a-a-a-y be right. I've always considered it
something of a halfway house myself. If you can't (or
won't) tolerate an appropriate mix of speedwork and LSD,
then it's better than no pace work at all. On the other
hand, IIRC Dave Bedford did very little other than LSD and
race. Though he never really 'made it' so what that tells
us I'm not too sure

Quoted message said:

He will get more benefits by doing a speed workout if he
does it properly but obviously he is not doing it properly
or he wouldn't get injured all the time. That's where his
problem lies.

Ain't that the truth. I see 'runners' tear off doing 400's
without so much as a basic warm up. I used to perform my
warm ups with the sprint guys - they at least have a
sensible approach towards injury prevention. As a rough
guide, I wouldn't consider doing a set of 400's or 800's
without having spent at least 20-30 minutes on a warm up and
the same on a cool-down. And my next day run would ALWAYS be
at a gentle pace. You may also choose to use massage the
following day. NO! NOT THAT SORT, WOBBOT!

Caroline.

"caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Ain't that the truth. I see 'runners' tear off doing 400's
without so much as a basic warm up. I used to perform my
warm ups with the sprint guys - they at least have a
sensible approach towards injury prevention. As a rough
guide, I wouldn't consider doing a set of 400's or 800's
without having spent at least 20-30 minutes on a warm up
and the same on a cool-down. And my next day run would
ALWAYS be at a gentle pace. You may also choose to use
massage the following day. NO! NOT THAT SORT, WOBBOT!

You are starting to impart useful information, Caroline.
Stop now while you still can!

Fartleck, as it becomes more disciplined, morphs into
repeats. Add more repetitions and time them and the
recovery, and they become intervals. E.g, 2 minutes hard
every 5 minutes x 8. It's a slippery slope...

--Dan

(Who warms up for 20-25 minutes before any speed, or
even a 10k)

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Fartleck, as it becomes more disciplined, morphs into
repeats. Add more repetitions and time them and the
recovery, and they become intervals. E.g, 2 minutes hard
every 5 minutes x 8. It's a slippery slope...

"Fartlek" is, as we all know, a Swedish word, should be
pronounced with long ("Italian"😉 vowels, can perhaps be best
translated as "paceplay", and refers to a special type of
longish and slowish run. The "lek" means that the bits of
"fart" are of varying pace and distance and come after
varying intervals.

IMHO if you leave out the element of play, you may have a
fine and useful training session, but it´s no longer a
genuine fartlek.

(OTOH and IMHO I think that there is not only a slippery
slope but a noman´s land between a fartlek run and an
interval session where training will be far from optimal.)

Quoted message said:

(Who warms up for 20-25 minutes before any speed, or
even a 10k)

Anders (who warms up and cools down even for a M-pace run,
and does a few strides also before repeats of 2000 m)

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fartleck, as it becomes more disciplined, morphs into
repeats.

Add more

Quoted message said:

repetitions and time them and the recovery, and they
become

intervals. E.g,

Quoted message said:

2 minutes hard every 5 minutes x 8. It's a slippery
slope...

But a great way to ease into speed without going to track
and being compelled to "measure."

--
Doug Freese "Training is not scientifically tested, It's
just trial and error."
Dr. David Costill [email hidden] (remove the NOBS)

In article said:

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message .-"]news:[email hidden].-
earthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fartleck, as it becomes more disciplined, morphs into
repeats.

Add more repetitions and time them and the recovery, and
they become intervals. E.g, 2 minutes hard every 5
minutes x 8. It's a slippery slope...

But a great way to ease into speed without going to track
and being compelled to "measure."

Indeed. One of the interesting observations Daniels makes is
that simply doing intervals by time as opposed to doing them
on a track, and in the process, removing the burden of
precise measurement, makes for a less stressful workout. The
workout is almost exactly the same (3-5 min at I pace
instead of 800-1200m at I pace), the only difference is the
availability of precise measurements.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗