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a new bike.

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
10 May 2004
Last activity
13 May 2004
Original author
Flaps
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25
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  1. So I've been doing a fair bit of travelling for work
    recently, and built up a pile of American Express "rewards"
    points paying for hotels, flights, inappropriately large
    meal and drink bills etc.

    Looking though the list, I could get a 2MP digital camera...
    nope... or an Oroton handbag.... I don't think so...
    oooh...light aircraft training flight.. damn not available
    in Victoria.

    oooh... I can get a Trek 4100est_type=search&country=aus&searchType=rewardDetail&id=3768-
    1988&seqnum=1 Done deal. I just sent off for the certificate
    I need to trade for the bike at my LBS.

    So my question to you guys is, assuming I'm starting with
    nothing , what would you recommend I pick up at the same
    time? I'll be using it mostly weekends on bike paths.. maybe
    a bit of commuting.... so I'm thinking a half decent helmet
    of course, a computer, but what else? I was reading
    somewhere that the plastic pedals that come with entry level
    Trek bikes like the 4100 should be the first to go, but I'm
    looking for your experienced and sage like advice to help me
    make up a shopping list.

    --
    Regards, Flaps.

  2. "Flaps" <flaps> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    oooh... I can get a Trek 4100


    est_type=search&country=aus&searchType=rewardDetail&id=3768-
    1988&seqnum=1

    Quoted message said:

    Done deal. I just sent off for the certificate I need to
    trade for the bike at my LBS.

    So who's the lucky [censored] then?

    BTW, there's a better picture and specs at
    trekbikes.com4100.jsp.

    Quoted message said:

    So my question to you guys is, assuming I'm starting with
    nothing , what would you recommend I pick up at the same
    time? I'll be using it mostly weekends on bike paths..
    maybe a bit of commuting.... so I'm thinking a half decent
    helmet of course, a computer, but what else? I was reading
    somewhere that the plastic pedals that come with entry
    level Trek bikes like the 4100 should be the first to go,
    but I'm looking for your experienced and sage like advice
    to help me make up a shopping list.

    I wouldn't worry about the pedals unless you want to go
    clipless (but then you also have to buy the shoes at the
    same time and they're not cheap, so it's not something to
    rush). What I would suggest, at least for the short to
    medium term, is buy a set of plastic toe-clips for about
    $10. They'll at least ensure your foot is positioned
    correctly on the pedal, thereby increasing your efficiency
    albeit not by as much as clipless.

    As well as the helmet (something around the $40 mark should
    be about right for a recreational MTBer) get a set of
    gloves. Winter weight gloves will set you back anything from
    $40-$80, summer weight ones around $15-$45. If nothing else
    they'll stop your hands ending up black from the rubber
    grips and if the palms are padded will make longer rides
    more comfortable.

    Check the saddle out carefully. It's hard to tell from
    the pictures but Bontrager saddles tend not to have
    centre cutouts, which means they can put undue pressure
    on the perineal area with adverse consequences for your
    dangly bits. Talk to the bike shop about a saddle with a
    centre cutout.

    By law you need at least minimal lighting if you want to
    ride after dusk. You can get away with seriously cheap front
    and rear lights which will do nothing more than make you
    somewhat visible to drivers for about $30-$50. If you want
    to get serious you can spend more than $600 on top-end front
    lights. But you must get something.

    You'll also want a decent lock (since I live in St Kilda I
    have two locks). I like the Kryptonite LS D-locks
    ($79/$89). Avoid the el cheapo copies. Get the longer one
    for the extra $10, the extra few centimetres will make life
    a lot easier in terms of being able to lock your bike to
    posts and stuff. I also have a cable lock, cheaper ($20-
    $40) but a bit more flexible.

    You'll need a water bottle cage ($10-$15) and a water bottle
    ($10-$12).

    You'll want a pump. A decent floor pump for home will set
    you back around $70-$90 for a model with a built-in
    gauge. A decent mini-pump for taking with you on the road
    will be around $40-$50. I have a Blackburn; a lot of
    people swear by Zefal.

    You may want to consider a set of plastic clip-on mud-guards
    for the winter to stop the tyres spraying surface water all
    over you. Zefal/SKS for around $25-$35.

    Then there's a tool kit (Topeak/Park Tool for about $40-
    $60), puncture kit ($6-$8), tyre levers ($5-$10) and a
    saddle bag to keep it all in ($25-$50). I also keep a Zefal
    pressure gauge in mine ($30). Chain lube goes for $10-$20.

    It's too hard to recommend clothing. Nix start at $40 and go
    up to stupid prices, jerseys start at about $50 and go up to
    even more stupid prices, and don't get me started on the
    price of decent rain gear.

    When you've sorted through that little lot we can start
    discussing some of the more esoteric gear you'll end up
    wanting. :-)

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

  3. "DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So who's the lucky [censored] then?

    yeah... and thank you for maintaining at least *some*
    control.

    Quoted message said:


    BTW, there's a better picture and specs at
    trekbikes.com4100.jsp.


    oooohhh.... purty. I was going to ask for the red one, but
    silver looks rather flash.

    Quoted message said:

    I wouldn't worry about the pedals unless you want to go
    clipless (but then

    you're probably right... I should just stick with toe-clips
    for a while. Thats what I had on my last bike up until I
    "lost" it from the garage one night a while ago. So I'll
    definitely take your advice on the Kryptonite lock
    particularly as I'd expect a shiny new bike like this one to
    attract attention at least until it gets properly scratched
    up and dirty.

    Strewth. kryptonitelock.comabtine
    tis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2736&atf=products-
    _item&pgrp=20 Maybe a little over the top. The D-clamp along
    with a "accessory cable" will probably be enough?

    Quoted message said:

    Check the saddle out carefully. It's hard to tell from the
    pictures but Bontrager saddles tend not to have centre
    cutouts, which means they can


    put

    Quoted message said:

    undue pressure on the perineal area with adverse
    consequences for your dangly bits. Talk to the bike shop
    about a saddle with a centre cutout.

    I've fathered 4 children, so accidental sterilisation from a
    poor saddle is probably a good thing. But I'll take you
    advice! I saw a Trek bike in a store a few days ago. It
    wasnt a 4100, I think it was a model or two up the tree, but
    it had a two part sadle like you describe. I'll check it out
    when I go to pick it up and upgrade if necesary.

    Quoted message said:

    It's too hard to recommend clothing. Nix start at $40 and
    go up to stupid prices, jerseys start at about $50 and go
    up to even more stupid prices,


    and

    Quoted message said:

    don't get me started on the price of decent rain gear.

    I'll get a proper pair of bike nix, but as for the rest of
    it, I *really* don't want to end up looking like some wanna-
    be w*nker ... I just want to be a comfortable weekend biker.
    Do I *have* to get a bright yellow lycra top with LOOK logos
    on it? Are they really worth it?

  4. "Flaps" <flaps> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    "DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So who's the lucky [censored] then?

    yeah... and thank you for maintaining at least *some*
    control.

    :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BTW, there's a better picture and specs at
    trekbikes.com4100.jsp.


    oooohhh.... purty. I was going to ask for the red one, but
    silver looks rather flash.

    Heh. I've got a silver Shogun and I like it heaps but I'd
    rather have had a red one. Red ones go faster.

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    while ago. So I'll definitely take your advice on the
    Kryptonite lock particularly as I'd expect a shiny new
    bike like this one to attract attention at least until it
    gets properly scratched up and dirty.

    Strewth.


    kryptonitelock.comabtinetis.ex
    e/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2736&atf=products_it-
    em&pgrp=20

    Quoted message said:

    Maybe a little over the top. The D-clamp along with a
    "accessory cable" will probably be enough?

    Over the top at $89? No way. The bike as is retails for $499
    and you're about to spend a bunch of money on it. Why save
    $50 only to lose $500?

    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's too hard to recommend clothing. Nix start at $40 and
    go up to stupid prices, jerseys start at about $50 and go
    up to even more stupid prices, and don't get me started
    on the price of decent rain gear.

    I'll get a proper pair of bike nix, but as for the rest
    of it, I

    I like the Netti 8-panel Pronix. I find the 6-panel Aeronix
    hard to get comfortable in, if you get my drift.

    Quoted message said:

    *really* don't want to end up looking like some wanna-be
    w*nker ... I just want to be a comfortable weekend biker.
    Do I *have* to get a bright yellow lycra top with LOOK
    logos on it? Are they really worth it?

    Indeed. I refuse to buy bike gear unless the logo is
    discreet. But you will need a decent top. Once you start
    sweating and drench your cotton T-shirt you'll understand
    the importance of wicking materials.

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

  5. "DRS" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Flaps" <flaps> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    "DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So who's the lucky [censored] then?

    yeah... and thank you for maintaining at least *some*
    control.

    :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BTW, there's a better picture and specs at
    trekbikes.com4100.jsp.


    oooohhh.... purty. I was going to ask for the red one,
    but silver looks rather flash.

    Heh. I've got a silver Shogun and I like it heaps but I'd
    rather have had


    a

    Quoted message said:

    red one. Red ones go faster.

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    while ago. So I'll definitely take your advice on the
    Kryptonite lock particularly as I'd expect a shiny new
    bike like this one to attract attention at least until
    it gets properly scratched up and dirty.

    Strewth.



    kryptonitelock.comabtinetis.ex
    e/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2736&atf=products_it-
    em&pgrp=20

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Maybe a little over the top. The D-clamp along with a
    "accessory cable" will probably be enough?

    Over the top at $89? No way. The bike as is retails for
    $499 and you're about to spend a bunch of money on it. Why
    save $50 only to lose $500?

    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's too hard to recommend clothing. Nix start at $40
    and go up to stupid prices, jerseys start at about $50
    and go up to even more stupid prices, and don't get me
    started on the price of decent rain gear.

    I'll get a proper pair of bike nix, but as for the rest
    of it, I

    I like the Netti 8-panel Pronix. I find the 6-panel
    Aeronix hard to get comfortable in, if you get my drift.

    Quoted message said:

    *really* don't want to end up looking like some wanna-be
    w*nker ... I just want to be a comfortable weekend
    biker. Do I *have* to get a bright yellow lycra top with
    LOOK logos on it? Are they really worth it?

    Indeed. I refuse to buy bike gear unless the logo is
    discreet. But you


    will

    Quoted message said:

    need a decent top. Once you start sweating and drench your
    cotton T-shirt you'll understand the importance of wicking
    materials.

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    Cycling Gloves!

    --
    Posted by news://news.nb.nu

  6. "Flaps" <flaps> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So who's the lucky [censored] then?

    yeah... and thank you for maintaining at least *some*
    control.

    Quoted message said:


    BTW, there's a better picture and specs at
    trekbikes.com4100.jsp.


    oooohhh.... purty. I was going to ask for the red one, but
    silver looks rather flash.

    Quoted message said:

    I wouldn't worry about the pedals unless you want to go
    clipless (but


    then

    Quoted message said:


    you're probably right... I should just stick with toe-
    clips for a while. Thats what I had on my last bike up
    until I "lost" it from the garage one night a while


    ago.

    Quoted message said:

    So I'll definitely take your advice on the Kryptonite lock
    particularly as I'd expect a shiny new bike like


    this

    Quoted message said:

    one to attract attention at least until it gets properly
    scratched up and dirty.

    Strewth.


    kryptonitelock.comabtinetis.ex
    e/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2736&atf=products_it-
    em&pgrp=20

    Quoted message said:

    Maybe a little over the top. The D-clamp along with a
    "accessory cable"


    will

    Quoted message said:

    probably be enough?

    Quoted message said:

    Check the saddle out carefully. It's hard to tell from
    the pictures but Bontrager saddles tend not to have
    centre cutouts, which means they can


    put

    Quoted message said:

    undue pressure on the perineal area with adverse
    consequences for your dangly bits. Talk to the bike shop
    about a saddle with a centre cutout.

    I've fathered 4 children, so accidental sterilisation from
    a poor saddle


    is

    Quoted message said:

    probably a good thing. But I'll take you advice! I saw a
    Trek bike in a store a few days ago. It wasnt a 4100, I
    think it was a model or two up the tree, but it had a two
    part sadle


    like

    Quoted message said:

    you describe. I'll check it out when I go to pick it up
    and upgrade if necesary.

    Quoted message said:

    It's too hard to recommend clothing. Nix start at $40
    and go up to


    stupid

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    prices, jerseys start at about $50 and go up to even
    more stupid prices,


    and

    Quoted message said:

    don't get me started on the price of decent rain gear.

    I'll get a proper pair of bike nix, but as for the rest of
    it, I *really* don't want to end up looking like some wanna-
    be w*nker ... I just want to be a comfortable weekend
    biker. Do I *have* to get a bright yellow lycra top with
    LOOK logos on it? Are they really worth it?

    Honestly, I know some of these new cycling clothes are
    good for sweat


    shedding etc, but i think for the casual cyclist, it's
    going too overboard. When a cycling mad kid in the 70's, we
    didn't need all that stuff and we cycled all day just about
    everyday we weren't in school. Y'know, the old pair of
    jeans, T-shirt or if it's a bit cold we had denim jackets
    or parkers.

    Yeah they might've been a bit sweaty but no-one much cared
    when you're a kid. We survived many yrs without the highly
    expensive cycle clothing we have today.

    I'm not saying that it's a waste of money, the products used
    are of high quality material, but at a price, and i reckon
    untill you know if you're going to like riding the bike
    regularly, i'd hold off buying too much gear.

    It's bad enough we have to be forced in buying helmets now,
    I've had many prangs as a kid an older and never hit my head
    once, bit still I've now got used to wearing it .

    You have to understand that, some of the guys here are
    almost, if not completely fully reliant on their bikes, and
    yes the good gear is very much relevant to them, but as a
    casual rider and accasional communter, i think it'd be very
    easy to spend more on accessories, clothing that the actual
    bike is worth.

    At the bare minimum, a reasonable lock, minimum light set,1
    or 2 pairs of nicks and a helmet will suffice, anything
    other than that you can do gradually but not all at once.

    Anyway, Happy riding DJ

  7. On Mon, 10 May 2004 23:31:15 +1000, "DRS"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    *Snippage*

    Quoted message said:

    When you've sorted through that little lot we can start
    discussing some of the more esoteric gear you'll end up
    wanting. :-)

    That's a great list from DRS. Just a couple more ideas:
    - Tyres. For sealed surfaces a slick tyre is much more
    efficient than the standard knobby ones. A slick tyre
    will be fine on hard gravel too, as long as it's at least
    (say) 28mm or 30mm wide, as it will probably be on a
    mountain bike.

    - Rack. For commuting, a lot of people like to carry stuff
    on the bike rather than in a backpack (less tiring, and
    you don't get a sweaty back). But it can also be less
    convenient and less trendy :-) Your choice.

    If you're just starting to commute on the roads with
    traffic, the tips I've found most useful are at:

    bikexprt.comusa

    Good luck!

  8. Quoted message said:

    Originally posted by D&M Johnston
    Honestly, I know some of these new cycling clothes are
    good for sweat shedding etc, but i think for the casual cyclist, >it's going too overboard.

    Hear hear! or is that here here?

    My two t-shirts were fine this morning.. the more sweat the
    merrier! 🙂

    Yeah I own a bit of funky gear but for commuting I'm 99%
    of the time in t-shirts and nicks. I held out on lycra as long
    as possible but when you get to be doing >80k rides on an
    mtb.. chaffing in boxers or jocks is ridiculous! so I bit the bullet
    and bought nicks. I can still ride around in t-shirt/jumper and
    jeans but for anything over 20k's I'd go nix. The only reason
    I got a jersey in the first place was so I could carry stuff on
    long rides without having to take a whole backpack.. and then
    I started racing...

    hippy

  9. hippy said:

    I can still ride around in t-shirt/jumper and jeans but
    for anything over 20k's I'd go nix.

    Oh no! I just had the image of a (not the) fat hippy riding
    wearing nix.

    Please spell it "knicks" :-)

    cogsci.princeton.educgi
    bin/webwn?stage=1&word=nix

  10. Drs has given a great list. Not much to add.
    Clothing depends on the distance you'll be riding. I commute 9km into the city each day in normal office attire. In winter I'm the only one in the building still dressed in shorts! See how it feels before buying cycling attire.

    I did without a cycle computer for a long time, but eventually surrcombed last month and found I'm quite enjoying monitoring my 'performance'. I spent $50 on a Sigma Sport BC800 - my son picked up a computer from Kathmandu for $17 which works just as well.

    Minimal front and rear lights will cost at least $40 and more like $60-70.

    Shiny new bike...don't scimp on the bike lock. Anyone with a couple of tools can break a cable lock in about 30 seconds. Chain and hardened padlock takes a bit longer. D locks take a lot more work to break. If you have quick release wheels, you may want to get a cable lock to ensure they stay with the bike when you lock the frame using the D-lock. Nothing worse than coming back to find your bike has only one wheel!

    Water bottle and cage are necessity. And my personal preference is to carry my loads in panniers on a rack at the rear. Commuting I generally ride with just one rear pannier which I have attached a shoulder strap for ease of carrying when I park the bike.

    Takver

  11. just thought of somethings to add to your list its not my
    money so here goes patch kit CO2 inflator (if you are riding
    to work and get a flat these things are great, to tight to
    use them myself) frame pump spare tube dicide how you are
    going to clean and oil your chain, buy what you need to do
    it the way you like

    stu

  12. thanks for all the great advice guys... now all I have to do
    is bide my time until I can pick up the bike....

    Aparently Amex mail me the certificate, I then go to my
    local Trek dealer (one happens to be just 5 minutes away
    from where I work) , who will fit me to a frame size and
    order it from Trek in Sydney who then ships it down to
    Melbourne. So it aint going to be here any time real soon...
    probably be at least another week or two.

    I'll let you know how it goes after I get the first ride in.

    Flaps.

  13. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Originally posted by Mike
    hippy wrote:
    I can still ride around in t-shirt/jumper and jeans but
    for anything over 20k's I'd go nix.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh no! I just had the image of a (not the) fat hippy riding
    wearing nix.

    Quoted message said:

    Please spell it "knicks" :-)

    hehe lol.. ah yes, I see your point. I'll try to wear knicks
    from now on - a little more pleasing to the eye I'm sure!

    hippy

  14. "Andrew Reddaway" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 10 May 2004 23:31:15 +1000, "DRS"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    *Snippage*

    Quoted message said:

    When you've sorted through that little lot we can start
    discussing some of the more esoteric gear you'll end up
    wanting. :-)

    That's a great list from DRS.

    Thank you, thanyouverymuch. For bonus points, who can spot
    the important item I left out (no, it's not a rack)?

    Quoted message said:

    Just a couple more ideas:
    - Tyres. For sealed surfaces a slick tyre is much more
    efficient than the standard knobby ones. A slick tyre
    will be fine on hard gravel too, as long as it's at
    least (say) 28mm or 30mm wide, as it will probably be
    on a mountain bike.

    Absolutely. I have a hybrid with 700 wheels and funnily
    enough it's harder to get fat slicks for 700s than it is for
    26" or 27" wheels. It's highly irritating. I'm seriously
    thinking about importing some Avocet FasGrips from Sheldon
    Brown. They're the only slick I've found that goes up to
    700x35. Most manufacturers sem to thinks slicks should stop
    at 700x25.

    Quoted message said:

    - Rack. For commuting, a lot of people like to carry
    stuff on the bike rather than in a backpack (less
    tiring, and you don't get a sweaty back). But it can
    also be less convenient and less trendy :-) Your
    choice.

    True, but it can also make the rear of the bike unstable and
    unresponsive. I'm not necessarily a rack fan. YMMV.

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

  15. "takver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Drs has given a great list. Not much to add. Clothing
    depends on the distance you'll be riding. I commute 9km
    into the city each day in normal office attire. In winter
    I'm the only one in the building still dressed in shorts!
    See how it feels before buying cycling attire.

    And then you'll never go back. I might have ridden in T-
    shirts and jeans when I was a kid but I was too youing to
    know any better. I simply hate riding in street clothes
    these days. It's so heavy and constricting.

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    Minimal front and rear lights will cost at least $40 and
    more like $60-70.

    Not for minimal. You can get low end Cateye and Pioneer
    front and rear lights for $15 each.

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

  16. "Flaps" <flaps> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    thanks for all the great advice guys... now all I have to
    do is bide my time until I can pick up the bike....

    Aparently Amex mail me the certificate, I then go to my
    local Trek dealer (one happens to be just 5 minutes away
    from where I work) ,

    Have you been to the shop and talked with the people there?
    Would you want to entrust your pride and joy to their
    hands, especially in the first year when you'll most
    probably get free services? Not all bike shops are created
    equal. Just a thought.

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

  17. "DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Have you been to the shop and talked with the people
    there? Would you


    want

    Quoted message said:

    to entrust your pride and joy to their hands, especially
    in the first year when you'll most probably get free
    services? Not all bike shops are


    created

    Quoted message said:

    equal. Just a thought.

    yeah... dropped in yesterday to check em out. Its a small
    shop, but they have a pretty full range of trek bikes there
    and more importantly the guy I talked to seemed pretty
    genuine, interested and helpful. And yes, they do include
    the first 2 services free and discounts on gear.

    I hope it works out, 'cause the next nearest Trek dealer for
    me is all the way into City...

  18. "DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Minimal front and rear lights will cost at least $40 and
    more like $60-70.

    Not for minimal. You can get low end Cateye and Pioneer
    front and rear lights for $15 each.

    you want real minimal? Try the "no excuse" headlight from
    bikexprt.comchapter8a.htm

  19. "Flaps" <flaps> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    "DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Minimal front and rear lights will cost at least $40 and
    more like $60-70.

    Not for minimal. You can get low end Cateye and Pioneer
    front and rear lights for $15 each.

    you want real minimal? Try the "no excuse" headlight from
    bikexprt.comchapter8a.htm

    Heh. Someone in rec.bicycles.tech was talking about
    something similar, only using a Cateye mount. Me, I'd rather
    spend $15.

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

  20. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Drs
    "I have a hybrid with 700 wheels and funnily
    enough it's harder to get fat slicks for 700s than it is for
    26" or 27" wheels. It's highly irritating. I'm seriously
    thinking about importing some Avocet FasGrips from Sheldon
    Brown. They're the only slick I've found that goes up to
    700x35. Most manufacturers sem to thinks slicks should stop
    at 700x25.

    huh?

    what about the half-a-dozen models Continental make?
    Gatorskins, tour-models, etc ???
    Cecil may not stock em (surprisingly, they are really going off the boil IMHO) but SHM and most others will
    StKilda Cycles should be fairly heavily oriented in this regard to, i woulda thawt (or something like... http://www.cecilwalker.com.au/category245_1.htm which go up to 38mm)

    and as for Flap's nice dilemna ,youre all forgetting the most important thing of all!
    Some form of coffee-money-carrying device for post (or halfway) reward scheme😄 😄 😄

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