eggs and milk r bad

Vaine said:

Quoted message said:

and eggs are produced from birds which suffer terribly.

No, they are not. You've apparently been watching
propaganda video taken of the

I, for one never watched a propaganda film about chickens
and eggs. However, I used to have a friend whose family
owned a chicken farm where the chickens were... well, I
wouldn't want to be one of those birds, that is for sure.

When they got past the chick stage, the farmer would do this
nasty procedure called debeaking where they would use a red
hot blade to cut off the front half on the bird's beak, then
they would stick it in a cage of about 180 square inches
along with another bird where it would spend the rest of its
life, at least until she would be shipped to the
slaughterhouse. In that close of confinement, the birds
would get on each other's nerves and they would often fight.
That is why they debeaked them, so as to prevent them from
injuring each other, since the less aggressive bird had no
place to run. I saw those things with my own eyes. I even
smelled the smell of the smoke that came from the beak of
the bird as it was removed with the red hot blade. If that
somebody's idea of being kind to animals, I pity him. As far
as I am concerned, that is animal cruelty. By the way, I am
definitely not a PITA type.

Some chicken farms actually let the bird's feet touch the
ground. I understand that is relatively common for some
reason here in Washington State, but it is not always the
case, by any means, throughout the country, as I witnessed
in person at, admittedly, only one chicken farm. However, I
did read that this was sort of an industry standard, at
least in Florida, where I witnessed it.

While the birds may not suffer TERRIBLY, they don't lead any
kind of real life couped up in those tiny cages. However, I
suppose that the word "terribly" can be interpreted as
meaning different things to different people. We may have
different opinions on this. We cannot ask the chicken
because all she will do will be to cluck in response. If she
could answer, then she would be the expert.

By the way, you also mentioned veal. Again, when I was in
Florida I worked for a couple years at a slaughterhouse
where they only handled cattle. Though some of the calves
were up to a year old when slaughtered, many of the calves
slaughtered for veal were so young that, not only were they
born at the slaughterhouse, but when they died, their
umbilicus was still bleeding. After seeing as many calves as
I did die that young, I lost all taste for veal for just
about the rest of my life.

--
Andy Rugg - The Cheerful Pickle To email me, please remove
"postheap" from my email address. Thanks.

Vain said:

usual suspect posted on alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian

Nice, cross-posting. I'll paste in my replies from aaev. Now
on to my remarkable prose...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Diary products and eggs aren't byproducts of the farming
industry as I used to believe. Milk keeps the veal
industry alive

Good. The demand for veal is increasing again.

Quoted message said:

and eggs are produced from birds which suffer terribly.

No, they are not. You've apparently been watching
propaganda video taken of the most extreme cases of abuse.
Such cases are not the norm in agriculture, and in most
cases the videos you've seen have been used to prosecute
bad operators.

"Birds which suffer terribly" don't lay good eggs. Stop
pretending that farmers don't care about good products --
those are the ones that make them the most money.
nda.agric.zadefault.htmOpen ↗ w-w-Open ↗
ww.sp.uconn.edu/~mdarre/poultrypages/diseasefactsheet.html
ulisse.cas.psu.eduComeggs.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Adding these two products to my -no- list improves
my health

Not necessarily. Where do you get your calcium, zinc,
iron, B12, etc.? Are you getting all the essential
amino acids?

Quoted message said:

and ensures I don't have anything to do with the animal
side of farming at all.

It doesn't mean you have no blood on your hands. Many more
animals die as a result of your vegan diet than would if
you were to eat a diet of homegrown vegetables and grazed
ruminants (including game).

eesc.orst.eduvegan.htmlOpen ↗

The reality of your "cruelty-free" diet:
bds.org.ukLaurentperrier.htmOpen ↗

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heres my reply "> Adding these two products

Quoted message said:

to my -no- list improves my health

Not necessarily. Where do you get your calcium, zinc,
iron, B12, etc.? Are you getting all the essential
amino acids?"

Most farmers inject hormones into cows and hens to give a
better "crop" of eggs and milk.

Liar, at least with respect to your claims about the use of
hormones in poultry.

The US Department of Agriculture (USDA) prohibits the
use of hormones in the raising of hogs or poultry in
the United States. Therefore all pork and poultry
products that carry the “no hormones administered”
label only represent the regulations that are already
in place for pork and poultry and should not be taken
to mean that the manufacturer is doing anything beyond
USDA requirements for conventional pork and poultry
products. eco-eco-Open ↗
labels.org/label.cfm?LabelID=114

Quoted message said:

These hormones cause medical problems for these animals,

Not in ALL animals to which they're administered.

Quoted message said:

most of the "side effects" result in shortened life,
extreme fatique, nerve damage, nausea, and Anemia(lowered
rate of red blood cells in the body and lowered ratio of
oxygen, happens to a women with aids, farmers must
administer HIV medicine to counter this effect.)

Ipse dixit. Where did you get this disinformation?

Quoted message said:

These hormones, transfer to the human body after
digesting the milk, eggs.

chickens are not given hormones. Ever!!!

Somatotropin, a growth hormone, is a new animal drug
under investigation for use in lactating dairy cows.
The specific form of the drug is bovine somatotropin
(BST), which is prepared by micro-biological
fermentation, a process of bioengineering. When BST is
administered to lactating cows to improve productivity,
the natural levels of the hormone (six parts per
billion) in the milk have remained essentially
unchanged. Milk from cows treated with BST has been
declared safe for human consumption and, under proper
herd management, BST will enhance milk production. ces.uga.eduB1084Open ↗
W.HTML#Hormones

Despite FDA approval in 1985, several consumer groups
have expressed concern over the unforeseen medical
problems, traces of antibiotics in milk and meat
products and the effect of the increase of insulin-like
growth factor (IGF-1). Some consumers doubt the
credibility of government organizations, thus doubting
FDA reports. Another health concern pertains to penicillin-
based drugs (bactum-lactam), the most commonly used, to
treat mastitis. The FDA will have to monitor the
illegal use of these drugs to prevent allergic
reactions in humans. IGF-1 is present in the human
dietary process and is identical to cow IGF-1. Both
rbST and IGF-1 are orally inactive. Consumers fear the
potential carcinogenic affects of higher concentrations
of IGF-1 in
milk. IGF-1 stimulates intestinal cell growth, thus
increased the risk of abnormal intestinal growth.
The levels of IGF-1 are 100-1000 times lower than
endogenous blood levels in humans, therefore, if
IGF-1 is not completely digested, there will be
insignificant physiological effects on humans and
infants. american.edubst.htmOpen ↗

BST Human Safety is Verified by Five Independent
Authorities
msue.msu.edu11119206.htmlOpen ↗

Etc.

Quoted message said:

Even in this small amount, they may harm a women while on
her period causeing many health problems, and men by
lowering sperm count.

According to whom?

Quoted message said:

The second thing-- "Where do you get your calcium, zinc,
iron, B12, etc.? Are you getting all the essential amino
acids?" I get all them at twice the needed rate and more
from a pill that is free of any products from animals.

Guess you're not a "back to nature" type. Pills aren't
very natural.

Quoted message said:

"It doesn't mean you have no blood on your hands. Many
more animals die as a result of your vegan diet than
would if you were to eat a diet of homegrown vegetables
and grazed ruminants (including game)."

That site that you got that from is [censored], more
animals live because of crops being grown,

Not when they're harvested. When the cover (grains, legumes,
vegetables) is cleared, the animals are vulnerable to
predation. Don't just watch the buzzards circling over the
fields, watch the hawks and other birds of prey, too.

Quoted message said:

most farmers allow these rats and rabbits ect, to graze
on the crop,

Do they? Then why do they put out poisons and traps?

Quoted message said:

the farmers industrial and small, see it as free natural
feralizer, although there is a heightened loss of flies
because of the rodents, the ratio of vegan to normal meat
dieters animal death is aboot 30-to-10,000 the 30 is
natural while the 10k is separated aboot 9.6k non-natural
to 300 semi-natural 100 natural.

According to whom? You pulled this out of your smelly ass.

Quoted message said:

So vegan"ism" is better for the world.

Only for some cows and pigs. Not for mice, birds, snakes,
frogs, turtles, skunks, rats, deer....

<...>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The reality of your "cruelty-free" diet: bds-bds-Open ↗
.org.uk/Research/Silage/Laurentperrier.htm