Having running problems - help!

Dan said:

I've been running for about 18 months and now having some
serious problems. I have developed pretty serious shin
splints, some knee pain, back pain, and some soreness. I
suspect that it's all related. This started about 3 weeks
ago and has gotten progressively worse. I had to stop
running yesterday after about 2 miles due to shin pain and
stiffness.

Quoted message said:

I'm doing about 12-15 miles/week, running every other day,
mostly on trails with some steep hills. I do some road
running as well (maybe 25%).

...

imho, 12-15 miles in itself shouldn't be the contributing
factor of your problems. also, you seem to be taking a break
every other day, which is good.

but, for now, i would cut out the hills immediately. stick
to flat surfaces.

some background info that you might provide which might
be helpful:
- did you change any aspect of your running 3 weeks ago?
shoes? trails? time of the day? speed?
- your weight

others should have more suggestions for you.

jobs

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Dan) said:

I've been running for about 18 months and now having some
serious problems. I have developed pretty serious shin
splints, some knee pain, back pain, and some soreness. I
suspect that it's all related. This started about 3 weeks
ago and has gotten progressively worse. I had to stop
running yesterday after about 2 miles due to shin pain and
stiffness.

I'm doing about 12-15 miles/week, running every other day,
mostly on trails with some steep hills. I do some road
running as well (maybe 25%).

First thought was my shoes were the problem. I'm running
in the Saucony Grid Omni 3. Went to the shoe store and
tried a bunch of other shoes, but nothing felt
significantly better. The store guy was puzzled, and said
the shoes look fine. They have about 220 miles on them. He
thinks they're good for another 200 easily.

I had orthotics in the shows, which the store recommended
removing. That didn't seem to help any.

Any idea how I can diagnose this? Do I need a sports
doctor? Trainer? Foot specialist? Do I just wait it out
and hope it goes away?

Thanks for any advice.

these orthotics... were they recommended by a doctor for
overpronation? did you wear them and mention them when you
purchased these shoes? i'd just like to know if the
orthotics are necessary or not. can't recall... are the Omni
3's a stability or motion control shoe? if motion control,
then the shoes plus the orthotics may be overkill, and
causing the problems.

consider these things. a sports doctor would be a good
place to start.

Cam

Dan said:

I've been running for about 18 months and now having some
serious problems. I have developed pretty serious shin
splints, some knee pain, back pain, and some soreness. I
suspect that it's all related. This started about 3 weeks
ago and has gotten progressively worse. I had to stop
running yesterday after about 2 miles due to shin pain and
stiffness.

Have you tried backing off for a few days to let
things recover?

Quoted message said:

I'm doing about 12-15 miles/week, running every other day,
mostly on trails with some steep hills. I do some road
running as well (maybe 25%).

Are these being done easy, hard, variety of efforts/speeds?
How steep (% slope), long (vertical ht or horizontal
distance) are the hills, and are you running hard down them?
and just started doing that a few weeks ago.

Quoted message said:

Any idea how I can diagnose this?

Post your answers to jobs' questions or anything else you
can think of that changed in the last few weeks to see if
anything pops up.

Backing off and some strengthening drills may help - toe
lifts for the shins, quad drills for knees, and core for
back pain - assuming no counterindications to doing those
drills. But also knowing for sure whether it's a soft tissue
shin injury (shin splints is a generic term) or perhaps
something more serious would affect rehab and recovery.

Do I need a sports doctor? Trainer?

Quoted message said:

Foot specialist?

possibly - depends on severity of injuries and what medical
practitioners are in your area and their skills / interests.
I'd lean toward a sports doctor or PT who knows runners.
Foot specialists may not understand the interactions of feet
on rest of body, but hopefully a sports doc or PT who knows
runners would.

Quoted message said:

Do I just wait it out and hope it goes away?

If by "wait it out", you mean stop running for a few days or
a couple weeks or more until the pain subsides, and trying
to figure out what you did wrong and fix it, then that is
one option. If you mean run through it, that might not be a
good route.

You need to figure out what went wrong (find cause)
and fix that.

FWIW, I had some major AT/PF about 5 yr ago (not related to
running), got orthotics, PT fixed symptoms, and after summer
of field work it had pretty much gone away. A few years
later, I had a minor re-occurrence, but this time I was in
the process of seeing a PT for a gait analysis. He also did
some standard PT analyses and found a number of muscle
imbalances and some foot/ankle issues that were partly
structural, partly functional. He gave me a bunch of
exercises to do which improved the foot/ankle functioning
but also helped with the imbalances. He also changed my
shoes from what the running shoe store recommended.

His overall analyses and catching other things before they
became a problem were really helpful to me. I'm still
working on strengthening some things, but I'm much better
off because of the stuff he showed me. I would've never been
able to diagnose those other issues on my own, and he likely
saved me some future down time. Given the number of issues
you've developed seemingly all at once, it sounds similar to
one of my past indiscretions. Or it could be shoes.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Jobs,

Additional info:

- No real change in my running. Time varies, but usually
afternoon running. This is not new.
- Speed is about the same. Could be runing slightly faster
than usual the last few weeks. I average about 8.5
mins/mile on shorter runs with less climb, and about 10
mins/mile on runs that have steep climbs.
- Been in the same shoes for about 4 months.
- Weight is heavy (210lbs) - this is not new. Lost
about 15lbs last year and have been at ~210 for the
last few months.

Dan

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Quoted message said:

Dan said:

I've been running for about 18 months and now having
some serious problems. I have developed pretty serious
shin splints, some knee pain, back pain, and some
soreness. I suspect that it's all related. This started
about 3 weeks ago and has gotten progressively worse. I
had to stop running yesterday after about 2 miles due to
shin pain and stiffness.

Quoted message said:

I'm doing about 12-15 miles/week, running every other
day, mostly on trails with some steep hills. I do some
road running as well (maybe 25%).

...

imho, 12-15 miles in itself shouldn't be the contributing
factor of your problems. also, you seem to be taking a
break every other day, which is good.

but, for now, i would cut out the hills immediately. stick
to flat surfaces.

some background info that you might provide which might be
helpful:
- did you change any aspect of your running 3 weeks ago?
shoes? trails? time of the day? speed?
- your weight

others should have more suggestions for you.

jobs

Cam,

The inserts were recommened by the running store that sold
me the Sauconys. The Omni 3 is a stability shoe. Was also
recommended by the store after watching me run in several
shoes and looking at my old running shoes.

I'll start checking on references for a local doc who
specializes in running.

Dan

Quoted message said:

these orthotics... were they recommended by a doctor for
overpronation? did you wear them and mention them when you
purchased these shoes? i'd just like to know if the
orthotics are necessary or not. can't recall... are the
Omni 3's a stability or motion control shoe? if motion
control, then the shoes plus the orthotics may be
overkill, and causing the problems.

consider these things. a sports doctor would be a good
place to start.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been running for about 18 months and now having
some serious problems. I have developed pretty serious
shin splints, some knee pain, back pain, and some
soreness. I suspect that it's all related. This started
about 3 weeks ago and has gotten progressively worse. I
had to stop running yesterday after about 2 miles due to
shin pain and stiffness.

I'm doing about 12-15 miles/week, running every other
day, mostly on trails with some steep hills. I do some
road running as well (maybe 25%).

First thought was my shoes were the problem. I'm running
in the Saucony Grid Omni 3. Went to the shoe store and
tried a bunch of other shoes, but nothing felt
significantly better. The store guy was puzzled, and
said the shoes look fine. They have about 220 miles on
them. He thinks they're good for another 200 easily.

I had orthotics in the shows, which the store
recommended removing. That didn't seem to help any.

Any idea how I can diagnose this? Do I need a sports
doctor? Trainer? Foot specialist? Do I just wait it out
and hope it goes away?

Thanks for any advice.

these orthotics... were they recommended by a doctor for
overpronation? did you wear them and mention them when you
purchased these shoes? i'd just like to know if the
orthotics are necessary or not. can't recall... are the
Omni 3's a stability or motion control shoe? if motion
control, then the shoes plus the orthotics may be
overkill, and causing the problems.

consider these things. a sports doctor would be a good
place to start.

Cam

Quoted message said:

Post your answers to jobs' questions or anything else you
can think of that changed in the last few weeks to see if
anything pops up.

oops. didn't see your answers to jobs before I posted.

Dan said:

- No real change in my running. Time varies, but usually
afternoon running. This is not new.
- Speed is about the same. Could be runing slightly faster
than usual the last few weeks. I average about 8.5
mins/mile on shorter runs with less climb, and about 10
mins/mile on runs that have steep climbs.
- Been in the same shoes for about 4 months.
- Weight is heavy (210lbs) - this is not new. Lost about
15lbs last year and have been at ~210 for the last few
months.

dan,

sorry but i don't see anything unusual in the above info. i
guess your best option would be to go see a sports doctor,
as cam suggested.

of course, eliminate the hills for the time being. maybe you
could also try taking a break for a week and then try to
restart slowly.

good luck, jobs

Dan,

Just a thought - The Omni 3 comes in two flavors, one with
moderate stability, one with "ultimate stability", which is
meant for the heavier runner. Which are you in? I wear the
moderate stability flavor, at even at my small size/ light
weight, find that mine, which have about 250 miles on them,
need to be replaced. (I'm rough on all shoes.)

Margaret

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cam,

The inserts were recommened by the running store that sold
me the Sauconys. The Omni 3 is a stability shoe. Was also
recommended by the store after watching me run in several
shoes and looking at my old running shoes.

I'll start checking on references for a local doc who
specializes in running.

Dan

Quoted message said:

these orthotics... were they recommended by a doctor for
overpronation? did you wear them and mention them when
you purchased these shoes? i'd just like to know if the
orthotics are necessary or not. can't recall... are the
Omni 3's a stability or motion control shoe? if motion
control, then the shoes plus the orthotics may be
overkill, and causing the problems.

consider these things. a sports doctor would be a good
place to start.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been running for about 18 months and now having
some serious problems. I have developed pretty serious
shin splints, some knee pain, back pain, and some
soreness. I suspect that it's all related. This
started about 3 weeks ago and has gotten progressively
worse. I had to stop running yesterday after about 2
miles due to shin pain and stiffness.

I'm doing about 12-15 miles/week, running every other
day, mostly on trails with some steep hills. I do some
road running as well (maybe 25%).

First thought was my shoes were the problem. I'm
running in the Saucony Grid Omni 3. Went to the shoe
store and tried a bunch of other shoes, but nothing
felt significantly better. The store guy was puzzled,
and said the shoes look fine. They have about 220
miles on them. He thinks they're good for another 200
easily.

I had orthotics in the shows, which the store
recommended removing. That didn't seem to help any.

Any idea how I can diagnose this? Do I need a sports
doctor? Trainer? Foot specialist? Do I just wait it
out and hope it goes away?

Thanks for any advice.

these orthotics... were they recommended by a doctor for
overpronation? did you wear them and mention them when
you purchased these shoes? i'd just like to know if the
orthotics are necessary or not. can't recall... are the
Omni 3's a stability or motion control shoe? if motion
control, then the shoes plus the orthotics may be
overkill, and causing the problems.

consider these things. a sports doctor would be a good
place to start.

Cam

Wanted to post an update and thank all of you for your help.
Had some connectivity issues and could not post sooner.

Someone above asked about me running faster downhill -
guilty. I've been tracking my times and want to see some
progress. No doubt I was trying to make up some time going
downhill. For now the timer is put away.

Someone also asked about the slope: it varies, but I can
have a few hundred yards of 8-10% slope on my runs. Most is
less steep, but some areas can average7% for up to 1/2 mile.

Went to another running store in Portland and was told that
my Saucony Omni 3 shoes were worn out. They guy watched me
run, and then looked over the shows. He said they were done.
Based on how they feel this is very believable. He put me in
a pair of brooks stability shoes which felt good, but he
didn't have them in widths, which I need.

I went back to the place where I bought the Sauconys, and
picked up a different pair of Brooks shoes they had in my
size. So far they are ok, but not great. And they had
absolutely no comment about the Omni 3s wearing out so
quickly. I didn't expect any more than a "it happens"
comment, but they seemed to avoid the whole issues.

I stopped running for week, then started back in the new
Brooks (can't remember which model). They are a stability
show, with a much wider sole than the Saucony had, esp in
the middle of the shoe. Did 2 miles on a treadmill that
went ok. Some minor pain or discomfort on the inside of my
right heel. Then did 2 miles on a dirt road - same thing.
The other day I did 3 miles on a 3-4% incline. Ok going
up, but I really need to watch my speed coming down to
avoid any pain.

So the new shoes are helping, but are not ideal. Not sure
how to describe it, but the feel less "nimble" when I'm
running, which is not surprising given how they look. The
inserts with these shoes did not work well. Some knee pain
after doing 1 mile downhill, and the inner heel pain I
mentioned above when running up.

Also trying to get a referral to a running specialist via my
HMO PCP - not sure it will happen. If not, I'll have to pay
out of pocket.

Last question (if any of you are still with me): Where do
you all shop for shoes. I tried 2 different running
specialty stores, and while they were moderately to very
helpful, they are constrained by their limited inventory. Is
there a place that typically has knowledgeable people and
really big inventory?

Dan

Quoted message said:

I've been running for about 18 months and now having some
serious problems. I have developed pretty serious shin
splints, some knee pain, back pain, and some soreness. I
suspect that it's all related. This started about 3 weeks
ago and has gotten progressively worse. I had to stop
running yesterday after about 2 miles due to shin pain and
stiffness.

I'm doing about 12-15 miles/week, running every other day,
mostly on trails with some steep hills. I do some road
running as well (maybe 25%).

First thought was my shoes were the problem. I'm running
in the Saucony Grid Omni 3. Went to the shoe store and
tried a bunch of other shoes, but nothing felt
significantly better. The store guy was puzzled, and said
the shoes look fine. They have about 220 miles on them. He
thinks they're good for another 200 easily.

I had orthotics in the shows, which the store recommended
removing. That didn't seem to help any.

Any idea how I can diagnose this? Do I need a sports
doctor? Trainer? Foot specialist? Do I just wait it out
and hope it goes away?

Thanks for any advice.

Margaret,

Not sure which flavor of the Omni 3 I have. Went to the
Saucony web site and it was not clear how to differentiate.
I was told by another shoe store that they are worn out.

Thanks, Dan

Quoted message said:

Dan,

Just a thought - The Omni 3 comes in two flavors, one with
moderate stability, one with "ultimate stability", which
is meant for the heavier runner. Which are you in? I wear
the moderate stability flavor, at even at my small size/
light weight, find that mine, which have about 250 miles
on them, need to be replaced. (I'm rough on all shoes.)

Margaret

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cam,

The inserts were recommened by the running store that
sold me the Sauconys. The Omni 3 is a stability shoe.
Was also recommended by the store after watching me run
in several shoes and looking at my old running shoes.

I'll start checking on references for a local doc who
specializes in running.

Dan

Quoted message said:

these orthotics... were they recommended by a doctor
for overpronation? did you wear them and mention them
when you purchased these shoes? i'd just like to know
if the orthotics are necessary or not. can't recall...
are the Omni 3's a stability or motion control shoe?
if motion control, then the shoes plus the orthotics
may be overkill, and causing the problems.

consider these things. a sports doctor would be a good
place to start.

Quoted message said:

> I've been running for about 18 months and now having
> some serious problems. I have developed pretty
> serious shin splints, some knee pain, back pain, and
> some soreness. I suspect that it's all related. This
> started about 3 weeks ago and has gotten
> progressively worse. I had to stop running yesterday
> after about 2 miles due to shin pain and stiffness.
>
> I'm doing about 12-15 miles/week, running every
> other day, mostly on trails with some steep hills. I
> do some road running as well (maybe 25%).
>
> First thought was my shoes were the problem. I'm
> running in the Saucony Grid Omni 3. Went to the shoe
> store and tried a bunch of other shoes, but nothing
> felt significantly better. The store guy was
> puzzled, and said the shoes look fine. They have
> about 220 miles on them. He thinks they're good for
> another 200 easily.
>
> I had orthotics in the shows, which the store
> recommended removing. That didn't seem to help any.
>
> Any idea how I can diagnose this? Do I need a sports
> doctor? Trainer? Foot specialist? Do I just wait it
> out and hope it goes away?
>
> Thanks for any advice.

these orthotics... were they recommended by a doctor
for overpronation? did you wear them and mention them
when you purchased these shoes? i'd just like to know
if the orthotics are necessary or not. can't recall...
are the Omni 3's a stability or motion control shoe?
if motion control, then the shoes plus the orthotics
may be overkill, and causing the problems.

consider these things. a sports doctor would be a good
place to start.

Cam

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Margaret,

Not sure which flavor of the Omni 3 I have. Went to the
Saucony web site and it was not clear how to
differentiate. I was told by another shoe store that they
are worn out.

Thanks, Dan

My Omni 3 has a logo near the instep on the medial (inner)
side - CRM in an oval with an M right next to it. I'll bet
the Ultimate has a U. If you purchase your replacements from
the Roadrunnersports.com site, you'll have a choice on sizes
in moderate or ultimate stability.

Margaret