CTC email

in message <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy,

you know? (') said:

On the CTC home page:

"CTC's email service was lost in the early hours of
29/04/04. Despite best efforts, we will not be able to
restore the service until early next week. To contact CTC
please phone 0870 873 0060. Thank you."

Sasser. Why do people continue to use Microsoft products?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; all in all you're just another click in the call
;; -- Minke Bouyed

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email hidden]> wrote:

: "CTC's email service was lost in the early hours of
: 29/04/04. Despite best efforts, we will not be able to
: restore the service until early next week. To contact CTC
: please phone 0870 873 0060. Thank you."

How would you tell the difference anyway? Unless their
response to email has improved markedly recently.

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Simon Brooke said:

Sasser. Why do people continue to use Microsoft products?

A lot of it comes down to "we use this because we always
have, and we don't like unfamiliar things as we suffer from
FUD". A bit like why so many people use wedgies when
recumbents would suit their needs so much better... ;-/

I'm sending this from a UNIX box, but most of the things
round here are Windows PCs. If I took Windows away from
people a lot of them would feel lost (and they'd feel that
even if they weren't), which would destroy the point of
having the PC in the first place. At least the departmental
fileserver is running NetWare so won't fall over because
there's a 'y' in the day.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Simon Brooke said:

Why do people continue to use Microsoft products?

Out of a pure and selfless desire to keep me in a job?
Just guessing.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

Arthur Clune said:

How would you tell the difference anyway? Unless their
response to email has improved markedly recently.

I usually get replies within the hour. But I am known around
the place.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

Arthur Clune said:

How would you tell the difference anyway? Unless their
response to email has improved markedly recently.

I've always received prompt replies. Was it something
you said ;-)

John B

Simon Brooke said:

Sasser. Why do people continue to use Microsoft products?

Why don't the CTC get a firewall or sign up for the monthly
MS e-mail service so they know what patches are available?

In message <4097d7f4.0@entanet>, Zog The Undeniable
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

Sasser. Why do people continue to use Microsoft products?

Why don't the CTC get a firewall or sign up for the monthly
MS e-mail service so they know what patches are available?

There's a lot they're not able to do, such as send emails as
text rather than html, or even stop them coming to my
address when I follow the opt out procedure.

--
congokid Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
congokid.comcongokid.comOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

Sasser. Why do people continue to use Microsoft products?

A lot of it comes down to "we use this because we always
have, and we don't like unfamiliar things as we suffer from
FUD". A bit like why so many people use wedgies when
recumbents would suit their needs so much better... ;-/

TBh, I continue to use Windows because it does what I want
well enough, i have a fair investment in time, programs etc.
to do various tasks, and I've tried Linux out a couple of
times - it requires more effort to get to grips with it all
than I want to invest.

I can see no reason though, except incompetence on the part
of those responsible for the problems organisations have
suffered with Sasser. (as opposed to home users, who have a
reason not to necessarily have a clue)

Patches have been out for a while, and any half decent
firewall should have been able to block it surely
--
Chris French, Leeds

In article <[email hidden]>,

Peter Clinch said:

A bit like why so many people use wedgies when
recumbents would suit their needs so much better...
;-/

Bzzt, not at all the same. Bents are costly and take up lots
of space. Not to mention fragile (from Guy's accounts of his
woes), and a potential maintenance nightmare due to use of
nonstandard parts.

If you're drawing an analogy, you got it the wrong way
round.

--
Nick Kew

Nick's manifesto: htmlhelp.com~nickOpen ↗

Nick Kew said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch

Quoted message said:

A bit like why so many people use wedgies when
recumbents would suit their needs so much better...
;-/

Quoted message said:

Bzzt, not at all the same. Bents are costly and take up
lots of space. Not to mention fragile (from Guy's accounts
of his woes), and a potential maintenance nightmare due to
use of nonstandard parts.

If you're drawing an analogy, you got it the wrong
way round.

No, I've got it the right way around, the effective monopoly
interest is spreading FUD!

(Yes, 'bents are costly, granted, but taking up lots of
space depends on the configuration, and there are plenty
that are quite compact (check out the Grasshopper, for
example). As for fragile, I have yet to hear of any major
failures on HP Vels, including Darth Ben's which he used to
take for Big Air stunt jumping (yes, really, there are
pictures in the shop). Anyone ever cracked a frame on an
upright? I have. Nonstandard parts on mine would be the
seat, chain idler, handlebars and, errrrr, that's about it,
and seat and handlebars aren't exactly maintenance hogs.
There is the frame, but as far as maintenance goes the fact
that it's CroMo rather than Al makes it a damn sight more
maintainable than a lot of uprights.)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

chris French <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I can see no reason though, except incompetence on the
: part of those responsible for the problems organisations
: have suffered with Sasser. (as opposed to home users, who
: have a reason not to necessarily have a clue)

Spoken like someone who's never had to deal with a large
network. See .sig below.

Firewalls stop only the outside. User's bring in laptops.
Machines can't be patched either because the patch crashes
the machine (a particular problem with this patch) or
because some stupid vendor won't certify VitalBigSoftware
(tm) on anything other than NT SP4 (yes, really).

Security is never simple.

Arthur

--
Dr. A. Clune, Systems Security Advisor, Computing Service,
University of York, UK, YO10 5DD. 01904 433129
[email hidden]

PGP Public Key - clune.orgpubkey.txtOpen ↗

Nick Kew said:

Bents are costly and take up lots of space. Not to mention
fragile (from Guy's accounts of his woes), and a potential
maintenance nightmare due to use of nonstandard parts.

Mostly standard parts actually - either bog standard or standard-for-a-
bent, and not that hard to source (e.g. Flevobike idlers).
And not that expensive (comparable to a custom tourer). And
they don't take up that much space (fits in the bike space
on a Virgin Voyager no problem). And most aren't fragile,
mine has a design flaw which they have now corrceted; it
shared this with the Baron which is also now corrected.
Plenty of people broke frames in the early days of aluminium
bikes, after all.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

chris French said:

Patches have been out for a while, and any half decent
firewall should have been able to block it surely

Patches are only half the story. When you have machines
being built to match customer specifications (which includes
an ever changing list of patches and service packs) it is
not always easy to keep up. And the virus often gets through
the firewall via email.

I have a port scanner which alerts me to intursion attempts.
The period between patching every machine in the place and
getting a new virus is usually about two days.

The problem is that Windows is fundamentally flawed. The
fact that it can be patched is like saying an unsafe car is
OK because the garage can post out new parts as the recalls
are announced.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

chris French <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

Sasser. Why do people continue to use Microsoft
products?...

TBh, I continue to use Windows because it does what I want
well enough... I can see no reason ... for the problems
organisations have suffered with Sasser.... Patches have
been out for a while, and any half decent firewall should
have been able to block it surely

although the patch seems to make windows 2000 boxes fail to
authenticate with an NT4 domain which is why my org hasn't
deployed it yet but the firewall and av software is holding
the fort for now

best wishes james

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden]=20 says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bzzt, not at all the same. Bents are costly and take up
lots of space. Not to mention fragile (from Guy's
accounts of his woes), and a potential maintenance
nightmare due to use of nonstandard parts.
=20
If you're drawing an analogy, you got it the wrong way
round.

=20
No, I've got it the right way around, the effective
monopoly interest is=

=20

Quoted message said:

spreading FUD!
=20
(Yes, 'bents are costly, granted, but taking up lots of
space depends on=

=20

Quoted message said:

the configuration, and there are plenty that are quite
compact (check=20 out the Grasshopper, for example). As
for fragile, I have yet to hear=20 of any major failures
on HP Vels, including Darth Ben's which he used to=

=20

Quoted message said:

take for Big Air stunt jumping (yes, really, there are
pictures in the=20 shop). Anyone ever cracked a frame on
an upright? I have. Nonstandard parts on mine would be the
seat, chain idler, handlebars=20 and, errrrr, that's about
it, and seat and handlebars aren't exactly=20 maintenance
hogs. There is the frame, but as far as maintenance
goes=20 the fact that it's CroMo rather than Al makes it a
damn sight more=20 maintainable than a lot of uprights.)

The main points are:

Cost of switch from M$ Windoze variant to Linux: pence. Even
if you buy=20 a Suze / similar distribution your costs are
negligible and you get to=20 keep the same hardware. There
is retraining involved.

Cost of switch from Upright to Recumbent. Starts at =A3500
(No=20 suspension). Normal basic price for bike is around
=A31500 + extras. There=
=20
is retraining involved.

In the OS change, the costs are a small proportion of the
original=20 purchase price of the machine + retraining
time. In the case of the=20 bent, the costs are quite
possibly in excess of 3 times the original=20 purchase
price of the upright.

While you may be able to source bent parts from your bent
shop, how many=20 of them are there. I count 5 LBSes within
easy walking distance of my=20 flat. There are at least
three within 5 miles of the rural village where=20 my
parents live. I haven't tried, but I doubt that some of
these could=20 be trusted to order the correct spares for a
bent, even if they could=20 source them in the first place.

Cracked a frame on an upright? No. I used to take my first
road bike on=20 trails with my mates and rode it through
potholes which blurred my=20 vision.

If you have USS, how does the linkage mechanism work. Is it
possible to=20 repair or replace this with easily located
equipment. Guy... why has it=20 taken so long to get your
Stinger back on the road?

Don't get me wrong. I like bents. I have some mad plans
rattling round=20 my head to make one. But I'd never try and
claim that the move from=20 upright to bent is even close to
the move from Windoze to Linux.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

In the OS change, the costs are a small proportion of the
original purchase price of the machine + retraining time.
In the case of the bent, the costs are quite possibly in
excess of 3 times the original purchase price of the
upright.

But are quite possibly not. An Ultra Galaxy or serious
Thorn, Roberts etc. will cost you a similar sort of amount
to various recumbent tourers. I can easily source a serious
upright racer that costs more than a Baron but doesn't go as
fast on the flats into a headwind with the same power input.

Quoted message said:

While you may be able to source bent parts from your bent
shop, how many of them are there. I count 5 LBSes within
easy walking distance of my flat. There are at least three
within 5 miles of the rural village where my parents live.
I haven't tried, but I doubt that some of these could be
trusted to order the correct spares for a bent, even if
they could source them in the first place.

When I had my Orbit regeared with a triple, it was done in
the LBS using standard parts. What generally wears out on
bikes? Is it the seat or frame, or the transmission? Non
standard transmission parts on my transmission are a chain
idler, and the bike still works if it's worn out, it's just
a bit noisy. FUD again. Work I've had done on the SMGT was a
wheel fine truing, done at the LBS, and HS-33s fitted. I did
have that done at Kinetics but there's nothing particularly
magic about HS-33s that the local shop couldn't have done
it, mounting as they do on the standard brake bosses my bike
comes with.

Quoted message said:

If you have USS, how does the linkage mechanism work.

FUD. I do have USS. There is no linkage mechanism aside from
a standard handlebar stem.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible to repair or replace this with easily
located equipment. Guy... why has it taken so long to get
your Stinger back on the road?

It isn't possible to repair the steering linkage on my bike
because there is no such thing. It has taken Guy's bike so
long to get back on the road because it needed a new frame.
When I cracked the frame on my upright it took a while to
get it back on the road, because new frames don't just
appear out of nowhere. Frames going is very little to do
with whether a bike is recumbent or upright.

Quoted message said:

Don't get me wrong. I like bents. I have some mad plans
rattling round my head to make one. But I'd never try and
claim that the move from upright to bent is even close to
the move from Windoze to Linux.

I wasn't really saying it was, I was saying that
conservatism and FUD are principle reasons for people not to
consider moving away from Windows just as they're principle
reasons not to move away from upright bikes. Also note that
"a principle reason" is not the same thing "the reason", and
if you thought it was meant to be a complete, serious and
direct analogy you were reading a bit much into a joke
getting things back on cycling...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jon Senior jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove said:

Just needs wings. Apparently, someone has done the maths,
and concluded that it is possible to build a HP
Helicopter. The only requirement is a person capable of
producing 400W for 45 seconds (The time constraint is
required to prove that the vehicle is airbourne and not
just bouncing!).

Nah. It wants a bigger vehicle that can pool the energy of
several people, at significantly less output per-person.
That way even a middle-aged, pot-bellied lump like me can
have a go:-)

--
Nick Kew

Nick's manifesto: htmlhelp.com~nickOpen ↗

Simon Brooke said:

Sasser.

We've just rid ourselves of this turbulent er, worm here at
the Nut Mines. It arrived late on Friday morning. Still, if
the Evil Squirrels /will/ make half the network support team
redundant, eh...

Quoted message said:

Why do people continue to use Microsoft products?

It's called "Corporate Policy". Or something.

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================