Continentals

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Vincent Wilcox
I had, what I consider, an impressive sidewall failure on
one of two new 406-28 Continental Grand Prix tyres I bought,
passers by remarked about thinking someone had been shot.
Ive searched with the terms Continental and Sidewall
failures and noted a significant number of these in the past
but none of recent. The tyre had less than 50miles ie. brand
new, needless to say I have returned it.

I went to a local LBS to get a replacement tyre and they
seemed to think that this may have been old stock. This
particular LBS has always been good in the past at not
stocking things that cause them headaches in terms of
returns. They also lurk on usenet so I assume they are not
bandits and have been excellent at suggesting I go direct to
source rather than from them for certain esoteric items.

The point is that this was a failure on the rear wheel which
occured on a straight and my obvious concern is that it
occurs again on the front wheel mid-corner with a truck
behind me. Is there anything I can check for to avoid this?
Or was it a one off?

Also is it just me or do you need to be Godzilla to fit
these tyres, they have bent two of my tyre levers so far.
Ive fitted many tyres in the past none have been this
difficult and I am not looking forward to the prospect of
having to repair a flat in the rain on a cold day!

Thanks for any information on this.

I regularly use Continental Grand Prix tires. I have never had trouble fitting them on the rims by hand.... no tools at all. However, I use a pair of levers to take them off.

What does your "sidewall failure" look like?

Front tires and front brakes are two of the more important safety items on your bicycle. Give them a visual check before each ride.

daveornee said:

I regularly use Continental Grand Prix tires. I have never
had trouble fitting them on the rims by hand.... no tools
at all. However, I use a pair of levers to take them off.

Ive fitted quite a few different types of tyre, wire bead,
kevlar bead but these Continentals are ludicrous. Do you eat
alot of spinach?

Quoted message said:

What does your "sidewall failure" look like?

A 2-3cm tear between the bead and the sidewall. I may have a
picture of it if and when I can get the pictures off the
phone and if they are any good.

Quoted message said:

Front tires and front brakes are two of the more important
safety items on your bicycle. Give them a visual check
before each ride.

There was nothing amiss with the tyres as they were new. I
had just inflated them to 120psi with a track pump and
checked the pressure with a pressure gauge and cleaned the
rims of sludge from a previous rainy ride. They looked fine,
they rode fine until the rear went bang.

I use Conti Gatorskins on Campag Omegas - it was incredibly
tough to get them off and even worse to get them on.

I was put onto Crank Bros Speed levers - my tyre changes go
at least 3 times as fast, and no sweating or swearing. These
things are incredible. You just need one and a normal
plastic tyre lever (i use conti tyre levers as well because
they are as tough as the tyres are to get off!).

Hope this helps,

Bow

"Vincent Wilcox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

daveornee said:

I regularly use Continental Grand Prix tires. I have
never had trouble fitting them on the rims by hand....
no tools at all. However, I use a pair of levers to take
them off.

Ive fitted quite a few different types of tyre, wire bead,
kevlar bead but these Continentals are ludicrous. Do you
eat alot of spinach?

Quoted message said:

What does your "sidewall failure" look like?

A 2-3cm tear between the bead and the sidewall. I may have
a picture of it if and when I can get the pictures off the
phone and if they are any good.

Quoted message said:

Front tires and front brakes are two of the more
important safety items on your bicycle. Give them a
visual check before each ride.

There was nothing amiss with the tyres as they were new. I
had just inflated them to 120psi with a track pump and
checked the pressure with a pressure gauge and cleaned the
rims of sludge from a previous rainy ride. They looked
fine, they rode fine until the rear went bang.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

I had, what I consider, an impressive sidewall failure on
one of two new 406-28 Continental Grand Prix tyres I
bought, passers by remarked about thinking someone had
been shot. Ive searched with the terms Continental and
Sidewall failures and noted a significant number of these
in the past but none of recent. The tyre had less than
50miles ie. brand new, needless to say I have returned it.

I went to a local LBS to get a replacement tyre and they
seemed to think that this may have been old stock. This
particular LBS has always been good in the past at not
stocking things that cause them headaches in terms of
returns. They also lurk on usenet so I assume they are
not bandits and have been excellent at suggesting I go
direct to source rather than from them for certain
esoteric items.

The point is that this was a failure on the rear wheel
which occured on a straight and my obvious concern is that
it occurs again on the front wheel mid-corner with a truck
behind me. Is there anything I can check for to avoid
this? Or was it a one off?

Also is it just me or do you need to be Godzilla to fit
these tyres, they have bent two of my tyre levers so far.
Ive fitted many tyres in the past none have been this
difficult and I am not looking forward to the prospect of
having to repair a flat in the rain on a cold day!

Thanks for any information on this.

Do you have thick rim tape and box section rims like Mavic
MA2? Some Continentals do tend to be a bit tight and require
a knack (my experience is with their touring tyres but I
have read other peoples reports also). If you needed a lot
of force to mount the tyre maybe you damaged it then.

Bruce Graham said:

Do you have thick rim tape and box section rims like
Mavic MA2? Some Continentals do tend to be a bit tight
and require a knack (my experience is with their touring
tyres but I have read other peoples reports also). If you
needed a lot of force to mount the tyre maybe you damaged
it then.

The rims are Alex DA16 and I am using Velox rim tape. I
could mount the previous Schwalbe Marathon slicks with very
little effort. The GPs seem to take me about 5-10minutes
with equal amounts of levering/swearing. I cant see the
levers lasting another session.

Bow said:

I use Conti Gatorskins on Campag Omegas - it was
incredibly tough to get them off and even worse to get
them on.

I was put onto Crank Bros Speed levers - my tyre changes
go at least 3 times as fast, and no sweating or swearing.
These things are incredible. You just need one and a
normal plastic tyre lever (i use conti tyre levers as well
because they are as tough as the tyres are to get off!).

Hope this helps,

Bow

Will look into this. Thanks.

Vincent Wilcox said:

Bruce Graham wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you have thick rim tape and box section rims like
Mavic MA2? Some Continentals do tend to be a bit tight
and require a knack (my experience is with their touring
tyres but I have read other peoples reports also). If you
needed a lot of force to mount the tyre maybe you damaged
it then.

The rims are Alex DA16 and I am using Velox rim tape. I
could mount the previous Schwalbe Marathon slicks with
very little effort. The GPs seem to take me about 5-
10minutes with equal amounts of levering/swearing. I cant
see the levers lasting another session.

I used to have this problem with some Conti Avenue slicks on
my MTB. Getting a flat was a half hour ordeal, usually
involving blood loss. Fast tires, but too much of a pain to
deal with, so I got rid of them.

I also once helped a fellow cyclist having similar troubles
w/ some Conti road tires.

This seems to be a common complaint. Sidewall cuts and
fabric coming apart seems to be a problem with Contis too.
So why do people keep buying them?

Matt O.

Bow said:

I use Conti Gatorskins on Campag Omegas - it was
incredibly tough to get them off and even worse to get
them on.

Yup, Omegas are probably the worst rim for tyre fitting.
Apart from that they are (or were) one of the best rims out
there in terms of strength and weight.

Vincent Wilcox said:

I had, what I consider, an impressive sidewall failure on
one of two new 406-28 Continental Grand Prix tyres I
bought, passers by remarked about thinking someone had
been shot. Ive searched with the terms Continental and
Sidewall failures and noted a significant number of these
in the past but none of recent. The tyre had less than
50miles ie. brand new, needless to say I have returned it.

Conti GP sidewalls are very vulnerable to the flints around
here. A 2" gash isn't unusual, which of course wrecks the
tyre and often the tube.

Quoted message said:

I went to a local LBS to get a replacement tyre and they
seemed to think that this may have been old stock. This
particular LBS has always been good in the past at not
stocking things that cause them headaches in terms of
returns. They also lurk on usenet so I assume they are
not bandits and have been excellent at suggesting I go
direct to source rather than from them for certain
esoteric items.

The point is that this was a failure on the rear wheel
which occured on a straight and my obvious concern is that
it occurs again on the front wheel mid-corner with a truck
behind me. Is there anything I can check for to avoid
this? Or was it a one off?

Keep out of road debris or don't use Continental GPs :-)

Quoted message said:

Also is it just me or do you need to be Godzilla to fit
these tyres, they have bent two of my tyre levers so far.
Ive fitted many tyres in the past none have been this
difficult and I am not looking forward to the prospect of
having to repair a flat in the rain on a cold day!

There are some bad tyre/rim combinations. The worst I've
found yet are the (otherwise rather lovely) Campag Omega semi-
aero rims and Specialized Turbo-S folding tyres. I'm ashamed
to say I had to use a tyre lever to fit them because the
Omegas have a very shallow rim bed and the tyre beads are
completely unstretchable.

Vincent Wilcox <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Bruce Graham said:

Do you have thick rim tape and box section rims like
Mavic MA2? Some Continentals do tend to be a bit tight
and require a knack (my experience is with their touring
tyres but I have read other peoples reports also). If
you needed a lot of force to mount the tyre maybe you
damaged it then.

The rims are Alex DA16 and I am using Velox rim tape. I
could mount the previous Schwalbe Marathon slicks with
very little effort. The GPs seem to take me about 5-
10minutes with equal amounts of levering/swearing. I cant
see the levers lasting another session.

The Continentals are a lot smaller section that the
Marathons (28mm
vs. 37mm), so there's less sidewall to flex. That, plus the
fact that your Continentals are about the narrowest 20"
tires around, plus having a narrow rim, plus using thick
Velox rim tape would make mounting the tire a chore.

If it continues to be a problem, I would replace the rim
tape with something thinner. In extreme cases, a couple
layers of fiberglass reinforced strapping tape has
worked for me.

Jeff

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Vincent Wilcox said:

Bruce Graham wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you have thick rim tape and box section rims like
Mavic MA2? Some Continentals do tend to be a bit tight
and require a knack (my experience is with their
touring tyres but I have read other peoples reports
also). If you needed a lot of force to mount the tyre
maybe you damaged it then.

The rims are Alex DA16 and I am using Velox rim tape. I
could mount the previous Schwalbe Marathon slicks with
very little effort. The GPs seem to take me about 5-
10minutes with equal amounts of levering/swearing. I
cant see the levers lasting another session.

I used to have this problem with some Conti Avenue slicks
on my MTB. Getting a flat was a half hour ordeal, usually
involving blood loss. Fast tires, but too much of a pain
to deal with, so I got rid of them.

I also once helped a fellow cyclist having similar
troubles w/ some Conti road tires.

This seems to be a common complaint. Sidewall cuts and
fabric coming apart seems to be a problem with Contis too.
So why do people keep buying them?

Marketing. Continental and Michelin are the best at that
game. In contrast, take a look at Avocet. On this newsgroup
Avocet has a great reputation, especially their tires.
Further, at one point, Avocet had arguably one of the
largest share of the cyclocomputer market. Yet, maybe
because of their "direct dealing only" way of selling its
products, and the apparent lack of any other marketing, if
you go into just about any bike shops or do an internet
search, Avocet seems to be almost nonexistent.

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:29:29 +1000, "Bow" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I was put onto Crank Bros Speed levers - my tyre changes go
at least 3 times as fast, and no sweating or swearing.
These things are incredible. You just need one and a normal
plastic tyre lever (i use conti tyre levers as well because
they are as tough as the tyres are to get off!).

I have a couple Speed levers, but they don't seem any
good on tight fits. How do you use them when the tire is
too tight?
--
Rick Onanian

bfd said:

Marketing. Continental and Michelin are the best at that
game. In contrast, take a look at Avocet. On this
newsgroup Avocet has a great reputation, especially their
tires. Further, at one point, Avocet had arguably one of
the largest share of the cyclocomputer market.

I agree about the tires, but Avocet's computers are
notoriously fragile, and they've deserved to lose that
market share.

"bfd" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marketing. Continental and Michelin are the best at that
game. In contrast, take a look at Avocet.

My observations : Germany loves Continentals with Vittoria
not close in second ; France loves either Michelin or
Hutchinson, with Vittoria next ; Italy seems to think
Vittorias are best, and Continental is, I believe, the next
favorite. Note, that all of these are ACTUAL manufacturers,
located physically in Europe.

Quoted message said:

On this newsgroup Avocet has a great reputation,
especially their tires.

On the other hand, I have never seen an Avocet tire for sale
in Europe. Maybe I didn't look too hard, but I think I would
have noticed. After all I was a fan of Barums, while they
still existed, so I am not chauvinistic or snobbish about
tire selection.

Maybe if Avocet actually made things (I am under the
impression that its all design and engineering, with no
fabrication), there would be more selling, not just
marketing. After all, selling someone else's products is
"marketing" at a fundamental level. Of course, if there
really are Avocet factories, profuse apologies.
--
Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR

Bill McCready of santana talk about this in the santana
catalog the first continentals he would use on his tandems
is called a gatorskin it has a extra ply with a checker
board pattern that you can see on the outside of the tire.
He also uses it on his triples. One thing about santana is
every one of his customers can afford to sue him so he tends
to be consurvative about what he specs. If it works for you
let us know.

SMMB said:

My observations : Germany loves Continentals with Vittoria
not close in second ; France loves either Michelin or
Hutchinson, with Vittoria next ; Italy seems to think
Vittorias are best, and Continental is, I believe, the
next favorite. Note, that all of these are ACTUAL
manufacturers, located physically in Europe.

Vittorias are not made in Italy, but Thailand. Velonews just
did a big story on
it.

Matt O.

"SMMB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Bruce Graham" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le
message de :
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Do I get points for 3 out of 4 ?

Quoted message said:

No, at least some

SOME, yes ....

Quoted message said:

Continentals are now made in Thailand. At least the
price reduced at the same time at my LBS. (Top Touring).

Sorry, but I will claim the points - and more. Vittoria
has been absent from its original manufacturing home only
around two years.

But the original question was about the sales popularity
of major brands compared to Avocet. My comment stands,
that the bands that sell so well, and are complained of,
remain manufacturers, not marketers, branding concerns,
dream weavers. Unless I am also wrong that Avocet does not
manufacture, I think the point is properly made.

This is true, Avocet does not manufacture its own tires. It
designs and contracts out the actual built. The older Avocet
black with tan sidewall Fasgrip tires were former made by
IRC in Japan. The newer all-black, "carbon 12" Fasgrip tires
are now made in Korea. Despite the fact that Avocet never
manfactured its own tires, at one point, and especially on
this newsgroup, Avocet had a very good share of the bicycle
tire market. Now, compared to other companies like Michelin,
Continental, Vittoria, Hutchinson, Tufo, Veloflex and
Vredestein and others, its share is just about nothing. The
same could be said for its saddles and cyclocomputers. Is
this because it doesn't manufacture its own tires? I doubt
it. I think its more just poor marketing and distribution
philosophy.

Quoted message said:

My own complaint is the unitizing of wheels for sale -
hard to get those rims you want to build wheels, as Campy,
FIR, FRM, Rigida, etc., are all pushing the packages and
at a very high premium for what you get.

Again, more marketing. The companies you named plus
arguably the "king of boutiques", Mavic have all found that
putting together a "boutique wheelset" is alot more
profitable than selling just a rim. I have just gone thru
this same "game" as one of my buddies is builting up a new
bike and bought into and really, really, wanted the Campy
Neutron wheelset. However, the longer he delayed, the
higher the price got as supply got shorter and the euro to
US dollar ratio got worse. Now that the Neutrons supposedly
"wholesale" price is something like $625/retail over $700,
he's thinking differently and has now borrowed one my
handbuilt rear wheels (Ritchey OCR rim/Chorus hub/DT db
spokes) to try out....

Quoted message said:

bfd said:

On this newsgroup Avocet has a great reputation,
especially their tires.

Avocet tires are made by IRC. If you like Avocet tires, you
might also like other IRC tires.

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

"charles ramsey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Bill McCready of santana talk about this in the santana
catalog the first continentals he would use on his tandems
is called a gatorskin it has a extra ply with a checker
board pattern that you can see on the outside of the tire.
He also uses it on his triples. One thing about santana is
every one of his customers can afford to sue him so he
tends to be consurvative about what he specs. If it works
for you let us know.

The Ultra Gatorskins are hugely controversial. They manage
to polarise users like few other tyres, as attested by user
reviews at sites like Bikemagic and RoadBikeReview, so much
so that one well-known and reputable Conti dealer here
refuses to recommend them. It's a shame, they're such a nice
looking tyre.

Ultra Gatorskin: conti-conti-Open ↗
online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/t-
ires/race/ultra_gatorskin/ultra_gatorskin_en.html Duraskin:
conti-conti-Open ↗
online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/general/-
innovation/duraskin_en.html

--

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