Below Steering

TheMilligans said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans
(where I wouldn't dare ride!)...I am looking forward to
riding again and am considering purchasing a Recumbent for
my commuting to and from work. I've noticed some have
steering below rather than above...seems like it would be
difficult to control in that manner....can anyone comment
on the benefits/drawbacks to below steering? Thanks. Tony

it is so COMFORTABLE that twice i have nodded off and woken
on the gravel shoulder(!!!)... the topside bars make you
hold yr hands like a squirrel holds its front paws while
begging - Ъ×

My inclination is that it is just personal preference. I
have heard recommendations to the effect that one should
find a place that allows extended test drives and choose
what you like.

That said, personally, I prefer having the handlebars in
front of me, because that's what I'm used to. I think it
gives me better control.

Henry

My $12 homebuilt recumbent:
comptune.comviewtopic.phpOpen ↗

"TheMilligans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans
(where I wouldn't dare ride!)...I am looking forward to
riding again and am considering purchasing a Recumbent for
my commuting to and from work. I've noticed

some

Quoted message said:

have steering below rather than above...seems like it
would be difficult

to

Quoted message said:

control in that manner....can anyone comment on the
benefits/drawbacks to below steering? Thanks. Tony

"Henry" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

My inclination is that it is just personal preference.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

That said, personally, I prefer having the handlebars in
front of me, because that's what I'm used to. I think it
gives me better control.

To prove Henry correct, my personal preference is for Under
Seat Steering (USS). I feel like my arms are in a more
natural position and love the way it feels with nothing but
my feet out in front of me. I feel like I'm on a magic
carpet ride. For me, the USS felt natural from the first
time I tried it (which was also my first ride on a bent of
any sort)... no adjustment period at all.

I later bought a second bent (a RANS Vivo) with above seat
steering, but after a year decided to sell it because I
never got to the point where the steering felt as natural as
my USS bent.

A drawback to USS steering is that it is less aerodynamic,
and some people think it is more difficult to walk the bike.
I'm willing to trade aerodynamics for what feels right to
me. Also, I find it is quite easy to walk my USS bent. I
simply get behind the bike and with both hands on the seat,
tip the bike up on its back wheel and walk it from directly
behind the bike. I preferred this method of walking a bike
even with the RANS Vivo. (Particularly when walking the bike
into the house or negotiating other narrow spaces.)

~ Nanc 1999 Vision R44 USS 2003 Vision R45 USS

ditto for me. USS is best!--

"Nanc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Moclc.70339$f_5.15704@lakeread01...

Quoted message said:

"Henry" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

My inclination is that it is just personal preference.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

That said, personally, I prefer having the handlebars in
front of me, because that's what I'm used to. I think it
gives me better control.

To prove Henry correct, my personal preference is for
Under Seat Steering (USS). I feel like my arms are in a
more natural position and love the

way

Quoted message said:

it feels with nothing but my feet out in front of me. I
feel like I'm on

a

Quoted message said:

magic carpet ride. For me, the USS felt natural from the
first time I

tried

Quoted message said:

it (which was also my first ride on a bent of any sort)...
no adjustment period at all.

I later bought a second bent (a RANS Vivo) with above seat
steering, but after a year decided to sell it because I
never got to the point where the steering felt as natural
as my USS bent.

A drawback to USS steering is that it is less aerodynamic,
and some people think it is more difficult to walk the
bike. I'm willing to trade aerodynamics for what feels
right to me. Also, I find it is quite easy to walk my USS
bent. I simply get behind the bike and with both hands on
the seat, tip the bike up on its back wheel and walk it
from directly behind

the

Quoted message said:

bike. I preferred this method of walking a bike even with
the RANS Vivo. (Particularly when walking the bike into
the house or negotiating other narrow spaces.)

~ Nanc 1999 Vision R44 USS 2003 Vision R45 USS

Thanks for your inputs, I am really leaning towards the USS
models...just seems to be a more natural location, I'm sure
it will take a little getting used to but in the end I think
I'll like it better.... I do notice that many of the USS
models have the seat leaning way back...looks fairly
comfortable but it would seem to me that you have to hold
your head up/forward and this would tend to cause some nech
strain....Of course this is just a guess on my part but is
that the case? Thanks again... Tony

"TheMilligans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans
(where I wouldn't dare ride!)...I am looking forward to
riding again and am considering purchasing a Recumbent for
my commuting to and from work. I've noticed

some

Quoted message said:

have steering below rather than above...seems like it
would be difficult

to

Quoted message said:

control in that manner....can anyone comment on the
benefits/drawbacks to below steering? Thanks. Tony

TheMilligans said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans
(where I wouldn't dare ride!)...I am looking forward to
riding again and am considering purchasing a Recumbent for
my commuting to and from work. I've noticed some have
steering below rather than above...seems like it would be
difficult to control in that manner....can anyone comment
on the benefits/drawbacks to below steering? Thanks. Tony

My first two bents were ASS (Above Seat Steering). Two
homebuilt models, short wheel base. I then purchased a RANS
Tailwind for my wife (still ASS), but rode it for a while as
well. Then I got a good deal on a used Linear LWB with USS
(Under Seat Steering). I loved the way it felt. It is a more
natural, more relaxed position than the "praying squirrel"
position of ASS bikes. I could easily switch between the two
styles, however, depending on what I felt like on a
particular day. My main ride is now a Burley Hepcat SWB with
USS. I love this machine as well.

It really all boils down to personal preference and what
you want to do on your bike. The Linear is a great
touring bike. Not a speed demon, but very comfortable and
stable at speeding downhill, but you had to make an
appointment to turn around. The Burley is also very
comfortable, a speed machine that is quite stable at all
speeds and much more agile and maneuverable. Some people
never get used to USS. To them, it just doesn't seem
right. You need to find a dealer that has several models
to test ride and go from there.

Landonman

Quoth "TheMilligans" <[email hidden]>:
| Thanks for your inputs, I am really leaning towards the
| USS models...just seems to be a more natural location, I'm
| sure it will take a little getting used to but in the end
| I think I'll like it better....

Note that there are different kinds. Mine (Vanguard) is a
long rod that links the left fork crown shoulder to a point
on the handlebars between the left and the center. That
point can be moved, so you can adjust the oversteer. The
bars are approximately straight, so my hands lie palm down,
thumb in. On newer Vanguards the bars turn up, and your
palms face inward, thumb up ... but the brake levers are
mounted as usual (topologically speaking), so you work them
kind of backwards with the index finger at the end of the
levers. Wind resistance is probably different, with your
arms raised a bit, and sharp turns may bring the bars to the
seat frame (don't know.) And then there are bars mounted
more or less like ordinary handlebars directly to the fork
stem (short wheelbase.)

There are other factors that affect steering a lot more,
though (from what I read anyway, the Vanguard is all I know
from experience.) Height, overall wheelbase and weight
distribution relative to wheelbase. The Vanguard is high,
with a low bottom bracket and a long wheelbase, so I
experience a very stable platform at reasonable speeds. At
slow speed, the long wheelbase means I weave pretty far when
I'm trying to steer the bike under myself to stay up. I'm on
the tall side, so the weight is all in the back; would be
kind of interesting to know what would happen to the
steering if my legs got a foot shorter and the weight
shifted forward that much. Anyway, I imagine an Tour Easy
would steer a lot more like my Vanguard than a Reynolds
Wishbone, even though the latter is USS.

| I do notice that many of the USS models have the seat
| leaning way back...looks fairly comfortable but it
| would seem to me that you have to hold your head
| up/forward and this would tend to cause some nech
| strain....Of course this is just a guess on my part but
| is that the case?

Maybe. Of course you would want to get on a couple of
representative models to see for yourself how it actually
feels, particularly before getting into anything extreme. I
wouldn't guess steering above or below would really
correlate with reclining or upright position, in principle.

Donn

I like USS and ride where I will. You seem rather easily
influenced.

"TheMilligans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
| I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans
| (where I wouldn't dare ride!)...I am looking forward to
| riding again and am considering purchasing a Recumbent for
| my commuting to and from work. I've noticed
some
| have steering below rather than above...seems like it
| would be difficult
to
| control in that manner....can anyone comment on the
| benefits/drawbacks to below steering? Thanks. Tony
|
|

I've owned three bents, two w/ uss and one (a Bikee RX) with
ASS. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the wonderful
"weirdness factor" these bents have in spades, especially a
uss swb like a Vision. When I first saw one of these beasts
that factor so intrigued me that I had to have one! Now, I
ride a GS GTO trike (w/USS) which, according to my wife, is
the ultimate weird hpv. I love it!

BTW, the thing that weaned me from uss swb is suddenly
realizing that I was going down a hill at 40 mph on top of
an itty-bitty 16" wheel. That first Blackbent six years ago
scared the whee out of me!

BentJay

(BentJay) said:

BTW, the thing that weaned me from uss swb is suddenly
realizing that I was going down a hill at 40 mph on top of
an itty-bitty 16" wheel. That first Blackbent six years ago
scared the whee out of me!

Well, I've gone downhill about that speed on a 20" wheel of
a Vision R42, and it certainly didn't make me want to quit.
Don't try to run 20c tires on it either. Riding USS is still
the most relaxing way to go for me.

Now sitting as stoker on a Counterpoint once and going down
a steep hill - that scared the [censored] out of me. If I can find
the insurance, I think I'll do it as a for-fee amusement
ride when I'm retired - person paying in the front, take
them down a hill where the only thing they see is their own
feet in front of them (with really no assurance they'll make
it to the bottom).

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

Quoted message said:

looks fairly comfortable but it would seem to me that you
have to hold your head up/forward and this would tend to
cause some nech strain....

Do you ever slouch in the sofa while watching TV? My USS is
very comfortable. Wouldn't change it fer nuthin. Well, maybe
for a TI Rush... No neck strain. I have the back on my R40
reclined as far as possible and it feels good to me. My
hands rest lightly and naturally on the grips. The controls
are right where they should be. Very sharp turns may be a
bit more awkward with USS, but it is no problem day-to-day.
Heel strike is a worse hazard than the steering bumping the
frame. My handle bars fit under the seat but will hit the
frame. So, in the gravest extreme I curl my wrist on the
hand disappearing under the seat, so my fingers stay in
contact with the bar. Then when I straighten out, my hand
just naturally falls back into place on the bar. But note
that this is unusual for me to have to do this.

TheMilligans said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans
(where I wouldn't dare ride!)...I am looking forward to
riding again and am considering purchasing a Recumbent for
my commuting to and from work. I've noticed some have
steering below rather than above...seems like it would be
difficult to control in that manner....can anyone comment
on the benefits/drawbacks to below steering? Thanks.

Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount a
mirror (a necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS systems.
Unless one is comfortable using a helmet/glasses mounted
mirror in the desired riding conditions, this can be a
significant disadvantage of USS. (This is one of the reasons
I sold the USS bike I had, as I was not comfortable riding
in urban traffic with just a helmet mirror, and there was no
good place to mount a mirror).

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

BentJay said:

... BTW, the thing that weaned me from uss swb is suddenly
realizing that I was going down a hill at 40 mph on top of
an itty-bitty 16" wheel. That first Blackbent six years
ago scared the whee out of me!...

I find my Sunset with its ISO 305-mm (16-inch) front wheel
to be quite stable at 50+ mph. It has a more appropriate
steering geometry and weight distribution for high-speed
handling than the Blackbent, however.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Quoth Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>: ...
| Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount
| a mirror (a necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS
| systems. Unless one is comfortable using a helmet/glasses
| mounted mirror in the desired riding conditions, this can
| be a significant disadvantage of USS. (This is one of the
| reasons I sold the USS bike I had, as I was not
| comfortable riding in urban traffic with just a helmet
| mirror, and there was no good place to mount a mirror).

Seems true to me. Mine came (from previous owner) with a
mirror bolted to the left side of the Zzipper fairing, but
it wiggled so hard I couldn't see much. I get by with a
helmet mounted mirror. Once in a while when I'm on foot, I
forget that I don't have a mirror and look over there
expecting to be able to surreptitiously glance behind me.

Donn

Quoted message said:

Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount
a mirror (a necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS
systems. Unless one is comfortable using a helmet/glasses
mounted mirror in the desired riding conditions, this can
be a significant disadvantage of USS.

I ride a USS Vision, and mounting a mirror on the handlebars
has not been a problem at all. See a pic at
bentonbicycling.tripod.comid2.htmlOpen ↗

I have seen mirrors mounted on other style USS handlebars,
as well. The only USS bars on which I have never seen a
mirror mounted are the flat, straight handlebars that Donn
Cave described on his Vanguard (also used on Linear USS)...
not to say it can't be done.

~ Nanc 1999 Vision R44 USS 2003 Vision R45 USS

Donn Cave said:

Quoth Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>: ...
| Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to
| mount a mirror (a necessity on a recumbent) compared to
| OSS systems. Unless one is comfortable using a
| helmet/glasses mounted mirror in the desired riding
| conditions, this can be a significant disadvantage of
| USS. (This is one of the reasons I sold the USS bike I
| had, as I was not comfortable riding in urban traffic
| with just a helmet mirror, and there was no good place
| to mount a mirror).

Seems true to me. Mine came (from previous owner) with a
mirror bolted to the left side of the Zzipper fairing, but
it wiggled so hard I couldn't see much. I get by with a
helmet mounted mirror. Once in a while when I'm on foot, I
forget that I don't have a mirror and look over there
expecting to be able to surreptitiously glance behind me.

With a handlebar mounted mirror, I am able to determine the
relative position (distance and bearing) of vehicles behind
me. With a helmet mounted mirror I am not able to judge
bearing very well. Therefore, for me a helmet mounted is
acceptable for riding on rural roads where all overtaking
traffic will pass on my left, but is not adequate for
situations where I need to make lane changes (e.g. to get
into a left-turn lane).

Others who are comfortable with just a helmet mounted mirror
in all their regular riding situations will not find the
lack of good mirror mounting locations on most USS systems
to be a disadvantage.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Tom Sherman said:

Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount
a mirror (a necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS
systems. Unless one is comfortable using a helmet/glasses
mounted mirror in the desired riding conditions, this can
be a significant disadvantage of USS.

There was (is?) a guy that was one of the early recumbent
riders that made (makes?) great mirrors that attach rather
firmly to the helmet and gives a great view (you can
literally bang the helmet against the wall until it is
dinged up and the mirror is still in place). His first name
was Charlie and we used to pick up the helmet mirrors at the
old LAW/LAB GEARs.

(Charlie also did a whole thing with toeclips made from
plastic milk bottles, but I wasn't quite willing to do the
Whole Earth catalog thing.)

Now that I am riding a DF again, I need to get his name and
see if I can get another one for the helmet I use for
commuting. The mount is not designed to be easily moved or
altered, so the angle is all wrong to ride on the DF - and
after Charlie's mirrors, no other will suffice.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

On Tue, 4 May 2004 06:02:18 -0500, "Nanc" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I ride a USS Vision, and mounting a mirror on the
handlebars has not been a problem at all. See a pic at
bentonbicycling.tripod.comid2.htmlOpen ↗

I had one mounted similarly, but a series of very minor
mishaps had me reassembling it until I gave up - the mirror
seems out there to be dinged in my experience. OTOH, I'm
happy with the helmet mirror, so it was easy to give up.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

I think I would be concerned about two things for commuting
on a recumbent (assuming a somewhat urban environment):
maneuverability on and off the bike. I find the recumbent a
bit more work to commute on than a DF, but worth it.

It is nice to be able to turn on a dime (more like a silver
dollar on a recumbent) to reach cross walk buttons, get
through vehicle barrios etc. It is also nice to be able to
grab the handlebars to maneuver through a building while
walking. Narrow is very good.

It might be nice to be able to convert, as most bents
probably can be. No reason to live with something if you
change your mind or want to experiment.

John

"TheMilligans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans
(where I wouldn't dare ride!)...I am looking forward to
riding again and am considering purchasing a Recumbent for
my commuting to and from work. I've noticed

some

Quoted message said:

have steering below rather than above...seems like it
would be difficult

to

Quoted message said:

control in that manner....can anyone comment on the
benefits/drawbacks to below steering? Thanks. Tony