Edurance ride image.

The reason the ride felt easier is because it *was* easier: by eliminating all the normal 'spikes' in power that occur when e.g., climbing, you've reduced the physiological strain. (You've also made your workout less specific/effective, unless you've bumped up the average power to compensate.)

I live near you, and I had no idea it was so flat round here!:-)

it looks like from ~ 30 to 39 mins you were climbing a hill (low speed, and high hub torque), but it doesn't look like power was increased much (if at all). this likely occurs on other sections as well. you need to up your effort(s) on the hills.

Linz, i thought it was flat in MK ;-)

ric

Ric is right. I was climbing a hill 30-39 minutes into the ride. On one of my bikes I have a 30 front ring and 26 rear. As you can see I was trying to keep my power in the range of 160-200. Now I know that this is probably the wrong thing to do!

This hill is about 2 miles long and about 6% (ave) in gradient. I often use it as a bench mark (for what it's worth). My best time up it is about 7min 8 secs.

Training with power is extremely new to me hence my lack of doing the 'right' thing.

I obviously mis-read (or mis-understood) your writings on power training Ric. After peforming a MAP test, starting at 160 and increasing by 20W every minute - my final minute - where I reached fatigue averaged 365W. I then assumed that Zone 1 was 146-200W and did a training ride keeping in that range.

Did I miss the point or what?!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tomUK
Ric is right. I was climbing a hill 30-39 minutes into the ride. On one of my bikes I have a 30 front ring and 26 rear. As you can see I was trying to keep my power in the range of 160-200. Now I know that this is probably the wrong thing to do!

This hill is about 2 miles long and about 6% (ave) in gradient. I often use it as a bench mark (for what it's worth). My best time up it is about 7min 8 secs.

Training with power is extremely new to me hence my lack of doing the 'right' thing.

I obviously mis-read (or mis-understood) your writings on power training Ric. After peforming a MAP test, starting at 160 and increasing by 20W every minute - my final minute - where I reached fatigue averaged 365W. I then assumed that Zone 1 was 146-200W and did a training ride keeping in that range.

Did I miss the point or what?!

Basically, the average power of a long ride, which may be between 2 and 6 hours duration depending on fitness etc, should be about this level (zone 1). however, whilst riding uphill, you need to ride at a higher power. what that power is, will in part depend on how hard you want to make the session, and your fitness etc. on my longest rides i tend to ride at zone 4 to 5 uphill, depending on the duration of the hill. on my shorter harder endurance rides i'll ride at zone 5 to 6.

if i'm doing hill 'sprints' (working AWC) these will basically be all-out (but fall into the range of zone 7).

hope that helps,
ric

btw, how did you save the PT image: it's come out exceptionally clearly!?

ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by ricstern
btw, how did you save the PT image: it's come out exceptionally clearly!?

Well, seeing as cyclingforums.com limits you as to the size of post I found the best method was to re-size screen resolution to 800x600 and ALT+PRINT SCREEN then paste it into Microsoft (as a new image) Photo Editor (comes with most MS Office Versions). It is saved as a GIF.

Shame about the size limit as it does to some extent limit the true picture, per say.

I will be climbing in zone 4-5 from now on. All this trainnig in zone businesses is very confusing. Many people on Topica don't seem to like the idea but it works really well for me -> over the past week I have been seeing some great gains. Even in my Resting Heart Rate - now down to 36bpm!

Respect!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tomUK
Well, seeing as cyclingforums.com limits you as to the size of post I found the best method was to re-size screen resolution to 800x600 and ALT+PRINT SCREEN then paste it into Microsoft (as a new image) Photo Editor (comes with most MS Office Versions). It is saved as a GIF.

Shame about the size limit as it does to some extent limit the true picture, per say.

I will be climbing in zone 4-5 from now on. All this trainnig in zone businesses is very confusing. Many people on Topica don't seem to like the idea but it works really well for me -> over the past week I have been seeing some great gains. Even in my Resting Heart Rate - now down to 36bpm!

Respect!

Hi Tom

I've limited the size to 600x600. If you use 1024x768 or higher you should be able to just resize the window your viewing the graph in and press ctrl+Alt+Print Scrn and it should print the active window rather than everything thats on the screen.

cheers

It's too big to fit in one screen but here's a summary of my longest ride:

Duration: 10:16:40
Work: 5069 kJ
TSS: 535.5 (intensity factor 0.722)
Norm Power: 170
Distance: 124.393 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 807 137 watts
Heart Rate: 0 168 1 bpm
Cadence: 1 153 58 rpm
Speed: 0 49.9 12.1 mph
Torque: 0 702 213 lb-in

This is fascinating stuff, as I'm strongly considering getting a Powertap.

TomUK, you are a powerhouse!

I wonder, when you are training by power, do you really ignore HR? That would sure be a change as under the CTS coaching plan, I have strict HR ceilings to obey (with exceptions). Power-based training could result in much higher HRs if for whatever reason my ticker is running hot on a given day. If training by HR on that same day, I would be understressing myself.

Yes, you really do ignore HR as bizarre as it may feel. It takes some getting used to.

To be honest, I serverely doubt that Armstrong trains by heart rate. CTS would like you to believe he does but I question that. Part of Armstrong's stratergy is to convince the other riders he is doing something quiet different to what he actually is.

Remember the Alps in 2001?

Don't believe everything you read. Lest especially don't beleive everything Tony robins writes!!

Take care..and train with power!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tomUK
Todays ride....

Also, anyone out there with a powertap: what's the longest ride you've managed and what was you average watts for that period.

Cheers,
Tom.

Longest ride this year so far:

Entire ride (174w):
Duration: 3:35:20
Work: 2253 kJ
TSS: 301.8 (intensity factor 0.917)
Norm Power: 225
Distance: 64.838 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1131 174 watts
Heart Rate: 3 251 127 bpm
Cadence: 40 138 93 rpm
Speed: 2.4 37.5 18.1 mph
Torque: 0 511 70 lb-in

Note that the HR is not mine as I don't wear an HR strap while riding. Probably a combination of my buddies and interference.

Also note that TSS and IF may be a bit off as I bumped my threshold up 5w shortly after this ride.

p.s. Squint - very interesting that while your max power and ave power are lower than my ride, your max and avg torque are way higher - what a masher.

Suddenly this makes even more sense to me. Although this isn't a perfect analogy... you don't use HR as a gauge for intensity when lifting weights, you use the weight on the bar as your guide. Same idea here, I think?

CTS definitely encourages training by power. It's prohibitively spendy for many, though.

And hey, I LOVE the idea of being able to leave my HR at home if I feel like it! My Ciclosport HAC4 craps out when I wear just a jersey and exceed speeds of 20mph or so anyway (I think the wind weakens the signal at the chest/belt point).

Now if only Powertaps would get out of backorder!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Aztec

Now if only Powertaps would get out of backorder!

not sure where you're located, but i can get a Power Tap to you in a few days (depending on where you are).

ric

I am training for my first ironman, IM Canada, August 29th and have been training with a PT for a year now. My longest ride this year was 7 hours, 10 minutes, but my logest ride with my powertap has been 4:30. Two weeks ago I did a hard 4 hour, 10 minute ride where I averaged 242 watts, but I did it the "hard" way. I would ride a moderate effort for 40 minutes then 20 minutes at what I think I would ride for a half IM(56 miles). I chose 270 watts to do the hard efforts at. I actually modified the ride a bit depending on terrain, but it went like this: moderate effort for 40 min. then average 270 watts between :40 and 1:00, 1:40 and 2:00, 2:40 and 4:10, and 3:40 and 3:55. It was a pretty tough ride. BTW, according to my experience I would have averaged between 23.2 and 23.6mph depending on aerodynamics and conditions. That would get me a 100mile time of 4:15 or so and a 112 mile IM split of 4:46-4:50. Kevin

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tomUK
Todays ride....
I really would like to know why when training with Power PE seems so much less than when training with HR, even though I have the same average HR.

Also, anyone out there with a powertap: what's the longest ride you've managed and what was you average watts for that period.

Cheers,
Tom.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by ricstern
not sure where you're located, but i can get a Power Tap to you in a few days (depending on where you are).

ric

I am in California. I'm not worried about shipping price. It's the rather unfavorable $/GBP rate these days. Ouch!

If I wait, I can get the Pro version w/ 24 hole hub, etc., for $850. But.... the length of the wait is uncertain. Supposedly Cycleops is having trouble getting certain components for it. Hmmph.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Aztec
I am in California. I'm not worried about shipping price. It's the rather unfavorable $/GBP rate these days. Ouch!

If I wait, I can get the Pro version w/ 24 hole hub, etc., for $850. But.... the length of the wait is uncertain. Supposedly Cycleops is having trouble getting certain components for it. Hmmph.

yes it'd be more due to $/£ exchange rates. sorry about that.

the issue has been resolved now, and they're working through the backorders (which is why i have some). hopefully you won't have to wait to long now.

ric

Thanks for offering to help, Ric.

I really am excited about using one. I mentioned in another thread how my power dropped off during an interval session I was doing the other day. I can't wait to be able to measure/monitor that quantitatively.

Any good references for training with power?