Brooks saddles - comparison?

Mark H. said:

The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it.
Countless hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past
10 year's newsgroup posts about Brooks saddles, plus the
various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks saddles,
but...how to choose?

There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of
the lovers, some found them comfortable right out of the
box, others only after a couple thousand miles...some
wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some
need a wide platform, some narrow...some models are
recommended for the more "aggressive" rider, then
not...and so on, but...

Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides
(training/recreational) every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm
"average" build; my "sit bones" not wide, accommodating
any of the Brooks models, I believe.

Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What
about the B-17, Team Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty
memory cells may recall, some decades ago with my vintage
10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.

I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis
between the models, what have I missed?
Testimonials/advice about how folks came to choose their
particular model are very much welcome.

I presently have Brooks Pro on two bikes, Swifts on two
bikes, B-17 on one, Pro S on one. None of them are
uncomfortable - I've sat on all of them for brevets of
several hundred kilometres without discomfort. I found the
wider ones - the B-17 and Pro S - more immediately
comfortable. First ride out of the box they feel good. The
Pro and Swift seem to take a couple of months of use to
reach the same point.

I'm 178cm and 65kg, so fairly skinny.

Nick

I have the B17 Titanium. Almost immediately comfortable.
It's black and lighter than the standard. I think it looks
fine on a road bike. Have a traditional honey B17 on my mtb.
Very happy with both. BTW, only used proofhide as
recommended by Brooks.

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it.
Countless hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past
10 year's newsgroup posts about Brooks saddles, plus the
various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks saddles,
but...how to choose?

There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of
the lovers, some found them comfortable right out of the
box, others only after a couple thousand miles...some wave
a can of Proofide at them every year or two,

some

Quoted message said:

soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some
need a wide platform, some narrow...some models are
recommended for the more "aggressive" rider, then
not...and so on, but...

Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides
(training/recreational) every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm
"average" build; my "sit bones" not wide, accommodating
any of the Brooks models, I believe.

Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What
about the B-17,

Team

Quoted message said:

Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may
recall, some

decades

Quoted message said:

ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle
friendly.

I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis
between the models, what have I missed?
Testimonials/advice about how folks came to choose their
particular model are very much welcome.

Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dg
[B]I have the B17 Titanium. Almost immediately comfortable.
It's black and lighter than the standard. I think it looks
fine on a road bike. Have a traditional honey B17 on my mtb.
Very happy with both. BTW, only used proofhide as
recommended by Brooks.

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it.
Countless hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past
10 year's newsgroup posts about Brooks saddles, plus the
various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks saddles,
but...how to choose?

Nick Payne said:

I presently have Brooks Pro on two bikes, Swifts on two
bikes, B-17 on one, Pro S on one. None of them are
uncomfortable -

I have been thinking of getting a swift I am a big guy and
need a narrow saddle to keep my crotch from rubbing. I have
the team pro but it is pretty wide.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes
at reasonable prices See knight-toolworks.comknight-toolworks.comOpen ↗ For
prices and ordering instructions.

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

...how to choose?

...

Quoted message said:

Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What
about the B-17, Team Pro? And why? ... I haven't found
much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how
folks came to choose their particular model are very much
welcome.

In my experience the variation between Brooks saddles even
within a specific model is a bigger factor than the
difference between models. I've had Brooks Pro's, B17's, and
B72's, and each and every saddle was unique, both in shape
and thickness of the leather.

My first Brooks, a B17 narrow, I bought in 1979. I still use
it on a daily basis commuting. The leather on that saddle is
fairly soft. I bought another B17 narrow saddle about 10
years ago. The leather on that saddle was substantially
thicker, and I gave up trying to get it to break in after
two years of putting it on my commuting bike for a few
weeks, taking it off for a few weeks, and so on. I have
three Brooks Pro's and those have been generally comfortable
but I suspect this is by chance rather than the fact that
they are Pro's vs. B17's. I had two B72's on two different 3
speeds (upright bars) and with these one saddle had much
thicker leather than the other. Again, the one with the
thicker leather I found less comfortable than the one with
thinner leather.

I would encourage you to try out a Brooks saddle-a good bike
shop will let you do that if you're careful and don't
scratch up the saddle. If the first one isn't comfortable
after a few days of at least moderate length rides (say 30
miles) try a different one. What it comes down to is that
what is comfortable for one person may not be comfortable
for the next, and there is a substantial variation between
each Brooks saddle.

Note too that if you want your saddle to last it will take
some care. These saddles will be damaged if left out in the
rain or if you ride in the rain without fenders (mudguards).
If you have a bike without fenders at least put a plastic
bag over the saddle and tie the bag tight around the
seatpost to keep it from getting soaked. I apply Proofhide
on occasion and have found that with these precautions
(along with not messing with the adjustment at the front of
the saddle) these saddles last a long time. I know that some
day I may wear out my first Brooks saddle, but with 25 years
of nearly daily use commuting, racing, and touring, and more
use still left I consider that to be a good value.

Sheldon Brown has a nice write up on leather saddles at
sheldonbrown.comleather.htmlOpen ↗

Bill Putnam

Mark H. said:

Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides
(training/recreational) every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm
"average" build; my "sit bones" not wide, accommodating
any of the Brooks models, I believe.

Should I try the Swift?

No one will be able to give you *the* perfect answer. It's
too dependent on the individual butt shape, riding position,
and personal preference.

Regarding the Swift, I have one. I'm very similar in size,
just slightly taller and lighter than you. I find the Swift
to be a bit on the narrow side, but still fairly
comfortable. I find the B66 too wide on a drop-bar bike, but
I'll bet it's pretty sweet for a more upright position.

I have only sampled the extremes (Swift = narrow and B66 =
wide). Someday I hope to work the middle ground, if, like
you, I ever figure out how to choose. They're too expensive
for the old trial and error routine.

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:20:34 GMT, "Mark H." <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it.
Countless hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past
10 year's newsgroup posts about Brooks saddles, plus the
various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks saddles,
but...how to choose?

Contact the folks at Wallingford Bicycle Parts:

wallbike.comwallbike.comOpen ↗

You can order any Brooks saddle and try it. They offer a
full refund within six months if you don't find a saddle to
your liking...

Jack Fortune Eugene, Oregon

Mark H. said:

The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it.
Countless hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past
10 year's newsgroup posts about Brooks saddles, plus the
various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks saddles,
but...how to choose?

There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of
the lovers, some found them comfortable right out of the
box, others only after a couple thousand miles...some
wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some
need a wide platform, some narrow...some models are
recommended for the more "aggressive" rider, then
not...and so on, but...

Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides
(training/recreational) every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm
"average" build; my "sit bones" not wide, accommodating
any of the Brooks models, I believe.

Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What
about the B-17, Team Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty
memory cells may recall, some decades ago with my vintage
10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.

I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis
between the models, what have I missed?
Testimonials/advice about how folks came to choose their
particular model are very much welcome.

I have a "honey" Swift. It's comfortable, but probably not
worth the exorbitant cost compared to something like a
Flite. A warning - neatsfoot oil turns honey saddles rather
dark brown!

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it.
Countless hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past
10 year's newsgroup posts about Brooks saddles, plus the
various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks saddles,
but...how to choose?

There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of
the lovers, some found them comfortable right out of the
box, others only after a couple thousand miles...some
wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some
need a wide platform, some narrow...some models are
recommended for the more "aggressive" rider, then
not...and so on, but...

Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides
(training/recreational) every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm
"average" build; my "sit bones" not wide, accommodating
any of the Brooks models, I believe.

Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What
about the B-17, Team Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty
memory cells may recall, some decades ago with my vintage
10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.

I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis
between the models, what have I missed?
Testimonials/advice about how folks came to choose their
particular model are very much welcome.

Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.

Thanks in advance.

In part it depends on the relationship between handlebar
height and seat height. You think your sit bones are not
particularly wide, but they are wider when seated more
upright than when leaning more forward. The B-17 is wider
than the Swift, Team Pro, etc., and for a number of people I
know (me included) is the best choice as handlebar height
approaches, and goes above, seat height. If you have your
bars a couple of inches below seat height, then the narrow
saddles are better for most. Using a narrow saddle with the
bars near or above seat height will help you learn the
meaning of the term '[censored] hatchet'.

- rick

My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new Swift
is, after about 450 miles, is not quite there yet. Try
Wallingford, www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month
guarantee on Brooks saddles. And you'll be supporting a
small entrepreneur who is helpful and a pleasure to deal
with. -Roy Zipris

"Jack Fortune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

[...]

Quoted message said:

Contact the folks at Wallingford Bicycle Parts:

wallbike.comwallbike.comOpen ↗

Their server is down.

--

A: Top-posters.
B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Yes I did TP. Thanks for noticing.

"Steve Shapiro" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by Dg I have the B17 Titanium. Almost
immediately comfortable. It's black and lighter than the
standard. I think it looks fine on a road bike. Have a
traditional honey B17 on my mtb. Very happy with both.
BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks.

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04-

Quoted message said:

news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it.
Countless hours, days, spent perusing Google for the
past 10 year's newsgroup posts about Brooks saddles,
plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
saddles, but...how to choose?

snip Dg top posted: BTW, only used proofhide as
recommended by Brooks.

Why? I've got 2 B17 Champion Specials. These are B17s with
thicker leather on a steel frame. I like them both. When
new, I dunked them in neets foot oil for 20 to 30 minutes
before using them. It's what I did to my baseball gloves
as a kid and it worked then. Also, Sheldon Brown
recommends it. Now, I can recommend it for saddles too.

Of my B17s, one was comfortable from the start. The second
was not, taking about 200 miles to "break in." The leather
on the second had a stiffer feel (read hard as a rock)
then the first. Neither saddle has sagged or required any
tension adjustment, but only the first has any miles on it
(around 2K.)

Steve Shapiro

--

(Roy Zipris) said:

My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new Swift
is, after about 450 miles, is not quite there yet. Try
Wallingford, www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month
guarantee on Brooks saddles. And you'll be supporting a
small entrepreneur who is helpful and a pleasure to deal
with. -Roy Zipris

I forgot the swallow looks about right. the swift is not
much different then the team pro. but the swallow is really
spendy. I wish the brooks seats had less curve over the top
I want a more flat seat.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes
at reasonable prices See knight-toolworks.comknight-toolworks.comOpen ↗ For
prices and ordering instructions.

Thanks very much to all of you, especially for revisiting
the topic.

The responses addressed what I needed; were helpful and
encouraging.

For those that have different models on different bikes, is
there any other specificity that you can share about the
characteristics that led you to choose them for those bikes?
Are the bikes for different uses?

Thanks once again in advance.

Steve Knight <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 27 Apr 2004 10:11:58 -0700, [email hidden] (Roy

Zipris) said:

My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new
Swift is, after about 450 miles, is not quite there yet.
Try Wallingford, www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month
guarantee on Brooks saddles. And you'll be supporting a
small entrepreneur who is helpful and a pleasure to deal
with. -Roy Zipris

I forgot the swallow looks about right. the swift is not
much different then the team pro. but the swallow is
really spendy. I wish the brooks seats had less curve
over the top I want a more flat seat.

How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to
afford a Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese
blades? If you're even making them anymore.

The Swift is very different than the Team Pro. Swift is
about 1 cm narrower in the back than the Team Pro and the
Swift is narrower in the nose and the Swift is longer too.

I think the Swallow is even narrower than the Swift.

I have a B17, Pro, and Swift on various bikes. And I have a
Flyer spring model I have not put on the mountain bike yet,
but will soon. The Pro is a not pre-softened version of the
Team Pro. I find all of them comfortable because they are
wider than any of the plastic torture devices sold today.
Even the unbroken in Pro is comfortable. My favorite is
probably the Swift because it looks right on a racing bike.
Although on a double century it was a bit narrow after 150
miles. Not exactly a problem for 99.999% of riders of
99.999% of rides.

I tried a B-17 standard, and could not use it, due to my
thighs rubbing against the sides of the saddle. I am on the
thin side, 5'9", 155lbs. Anyone else have that problem?
Would a B-17N work?

Bill

Mark H. said:

Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about
the B-17, Team Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory
cells may recall, some decades ago with my vintage 10-
speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.

This is a question only your butt can answer. Basically, if
you have wide hips, stick to a B-17 or its brethren. A
little more narrow, then a Brooks Pro. The most narrow would
be a Swift.

If you look beneath a brooks saddle you will see a "C"
shaped metal support. You do not want either of your sit-
bones to be atop the top or bottom tangs of the "C",
otherwise you'll be riding on a metal saddle. Therfore, your
sit bones must fit entirely within the "C", and when i
doubt, wider is typically better, because the smooth leather
makes it very hard to chafe with a brooks saddle.

If you cannot borrow a brooks saddle or bike, then "try
before you completely buy" a saddle at wallbike.

wallbike.comwallbike.comOpen ↗

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

"Bill Putnam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...how to choose?

snipped ...

Sheldon Brown has a nice write up on leather saddles at
sheldonbrown.comleather.htmlOpen ↗

Bill Putnam

Yeah, here is the link from Sheldon After polishing those
copper rivets for the last 25 year my Brookes leather saddle
still feels like : sheldonbrown.comreal man.htmlOpen ↗
OH it's wonderful when the pain stops! Fred

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I tried a B-17 standard, and could not use it, due to my
thighs rubbing against the sides of the saddle. I am on
the thin side, 5'9", 155lbs. Anyone else have that
problem?

Nope. And I am the same height/weight.

- rick