Shimano groupsets

Chris Walters said:

I have a Tiagra triple on my bike (too heavy for a double
:-) and am having some shifting problems at the moment.

Coming from the MTB world I know how much difference
moving the changers from Alivio to XT would make - is
it the same sort of gain if for example I went to
Ultegra mechs?

Also, how much of the shifting performance comes from the
STI levers themselves - if I upgrade mechs to Ultegra a)
could I still use my Tiagra STIs and b) how much benefit
would I get from upgrading to Ultegra STIs (given that the
STI upgrade would costs double the combined front & rear
mech upgrade!)

Thanks if you can help.

Cheers, Chris

Dunno, dunno, dunno... but I *can* tell you that I have
Tiagra shifters and gubbins on my bike and they're lovely -
what sort of shifting problems are you getting?

Velvet

Velvet said:

Dunno, dunno, dunno... but I *can* tell you that I have
Tiagra shifters and gubbins on my bike and they're lovely
- what sort of shifting problems are you getting?

Front - various problems with indexing and not being able to
set up the limiters *just* right (happy that big-big and small-
small are off limits, but there shouldn't be many more gears
causing rub on the front shifter).

Overall, expectations come mainly from using XT MTB STIs -
they are very smooth moving down the sprockets, and the
Tiagra feels very clumsy indeed. I'm sure that I've done the
best possible setup, but just can't seems to get it "nice"
like I can on my MTB, where there is much more opportunity
for the rear to go way out of kilter (suspended).

Just really wondering if it's worth spending the dosh on
better quality kit.

Cheers, Chris

--
_____________________________________________________

Chris Walters Hungerford, UK
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Chris Walters said:

Velvet said:

Dunno, dunno, dunno... but I *can* tell you that I have
Tiagra shifters and gubbins on my bike and they're lovely
- what sort of shifting problems are you getting?

Front - various problems with indexing and not being able
to set up the limiters *just* right (happy that big-big
and small-small are off limits, but there shouldn't be
many more gears causing rub on the front shifter).

Overall, expectations come mainly from using XT MTB STIs -
they are very smooth moving down the sprockets, and the
Tiagra feels very clumsy indeed. I'm sure that I've done
the best possible setup, but just can't seems to get it
"nice" like I can on my MTB, where there is much more
opportunity for the rear to go way out of kilter
(suspended).

Just really wondering if it's worth spending the dosh on
better quality kit.

Cheers, Chris

Hmm, I manage without rubbing on mine, though they were
tricky to get right (but them I'm a bike novice and never
had deraillieurs before). I find the frame seems to flex a
bit sometimes which can cause oddities (531C frame) but
never had the front shifter thing rubbing. There IS
something in the shifting that is slightly peculiar between
smallest and middle chainring, I think someone else here
thought it might be to help tailor it to what the chain is
doing on the groupset at the back. I assume you've adjusted
the front thing that does the shifting of the chain? When I
shift, a good hard push of the lever to move the chain over
is what's needed, it will actually move it slightly too far
then drop back a little to help the chain seat right from
what I can tell, but then the chain doesn't rub at all.
There's end stops that fix the limits of travel on the chain
moving gizmo, then it's down to cable tension for the actual
changing? Dunno if it's worth playing with that.

I also found when the bike hadn't done many miles the whole
thing seemed to need quite a bit of adjusting - it would
keep wandering out of adjustment and doing odd things on
shifting, but now I've clocked up a few more miles it's
wonderful.

Does it rub when anywhere on the front rings? Can you
identify which side of the guide it's rubbing on, and does
it swap sides depending on where the chain is at the
sprocket end, or stay the same, etc? Mine's a 9spdx3 and I
can only just get it to rub when the chain is crossed on
big/big or small/small.

Moving around the sprockets staying on one chainring is
lovely and smooth for me, so long as I back off the power
going through the pedals while I shift - if I don't then
it's very clunky and feels horrible, but then I understand
powering on while changing does Bad Things - wears things
out maybe - or causes a Falling Off incident if the gear-
change aborts or does something unexpected perhaps?

Sheldon brown has some good articles on how to adjust stuff,
my apologies if it's teaching you to suck eggs though :-)
Course, it could just be that they're different to what
you're used to from the MB side of things!

Velvet

Chris Walters said:

I have a Tiagra triple on my bike (too heavy for a double
:-) and am having some shifting problems at the moment.

Coming from the MTB world I know how much difference
moving the changers from Alivio to XT would make - is
it the same sort of gain if for example I went to
Ultegra mechs?

Also, how much of the shifting performance comes from the
STI levers themselves - if I upgrade mechs to Ultegra a)
could I still use my Tiagra STIs and b) how much benefit
would I get from upgrading to Ultegra STIs (given that the
STI upgrade would costs double the combined front & rear
mech upgrade!)

Thanks if you can help.

Cheers, Chris

I have no idea what would make your difference. I would be
very surprised to learn that with everything in poper order
it is impossible to adjust Tiagra properly. I suspect
something is not aligned properly. If you haven't all ready
ensure the mechs are aligned how they should be, remove the
cables, clean all the guides and fit new cables, you may get
a little cable stretch after a while, but decent quality
cables will minimise this.

Chris Walters said:

I have a Tiagra triple on my bike (too heavy for a double
:-) and am having some shifting problems at the moment.

Coming from the MTB world I know how much difference
moving the changers from Alivio to XT would make - is
it the same sort of gain if for example I went to
Ultegra mechs?

Also, how much of the shifting performance comes from the
STI levers themselves - if I upgrade mechs to Ultegra a)
could I still use my Tiagra STIs and b) how much benefit
would I get from upgrading to Ultegra STIs (given that the
STI upgrade would costs double the combined front & rear
mech upgrade!)

These days the differences in shifting performance are
small. They might be lighter, change more gears at the rear
in one go, wear less quickly and other such differences but
I doubt that you will find just switching to Ultegra fixes
the problems you have. I would have a go at adjusting them
correctly - the instructions that come with Shimano kit work
well or look on Sheldon Brown's website. When they wear out
by all means change them but I doubt that is your problem.

Tony

"Chris Walters" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Front - various problems with indexing and not being able
to set up the limiters *just* right (happy that big-big
and small-small are off limits, but there shouldn't be
many more gears causing rub on the front shifter).

Are you sure it's the front changer that's rubbing, and not
the large chainring itself when you are on one of the
smaller chainrings and the smallish sprockets?

--
Dave...

"Chris Walters" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a Tiagra triple on my bike (too heavy for a double
:-) and am

having

Quoted message said:

some shifting problems at the moment.

Coming from the MTB world I know how much difference
moving the changers from Alivio to XT would make - is it
the same sort of gain if for example

I

Quoted message said:

went to Ultegra mechs?

I've got Alivio gear on my hybrid and the shifting is
perfect. The best upgrade you can do is to replace the
inner and outer cables with brand new ones for a few pence,
then set it up like this:
parktool.comFAQrindx.shtmlOpen ↗

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W
simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

You ought to be able to achieve a reasonably accurate set up with whatever running gear you have on your bike.

One of the crucial things to get right is the cable tension. You can fart around with the limit screws on the front and rear derailleurs until you are blue in the face, but if your cable tension isn't correct, you'll get nowhere.

A previous poster referred you to the Sheldon Brown website and I would second this - have a look, learn, and then put it into practice on your bike.

On the Ultegra set up (and on its predecessor the Shimano 600, which is on my No2 bike) you can "feather" the front derailleur using a soft-click on the lever to allow you to use the smallest cogs on your rear cassette without the chain rubbing against the outside of the front derailleur. I'm not sure if you can do this on 105.

Simon Mason said:

"Chris Walters" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a Tiagra triple on my bike (too heavy for a double
:-) and am having some shifting problems at the moment.

Coming from the MTB world I know how much difference
moving the changers from Alivio to XT would make - is
it the same sort of gain if for example I went to
Ultegra mechs?

I've got Alivio gear on my hybrid and the shifting is
perfect. The best upgrade you can do is to replace the
inner and outer cables with brand new ones for a few
pence, then set it up like this:
parktool.comFAQrindx.shtmlOpen ↗

Thanks everyone who replied - I think the answer is to spend
a little longer fettling to perfection! Damn, it's getting
harder to do that *and* to go for a ride in the eveings,
without incurring the wrath of SWMBO for desertion (but at
least being able to use the excuse of not having to spend
more money to compensate) :-)

Cheers, Chris

--
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Chris Walters Hungerford, UK
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