Stoves

In article <[email hidden]>,
Brian <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the gas cannister as I find
these not very stable.

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on multi
fuel. What sort of stove should I go for?

Unless you have a real need for liquid fuel I would stick
with gas due to its simplicity. You can get stable gas
stoves that have a pipe leading to the canister such as:

cotswold-outdoor.com68527Open ↗ cotswold-cotswold-Open ↗
outdoor.com/Cat/2006

Quoted message said:

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone have
any experience of this stove?

It is quite a neat little unit but needs a windbreak if
there is much wind about. I carry some heavy duty kitchen
foil inside mine to make a windbreak if necessary. It can be
a bit thirsty too requiring quite a bit of fuel if you are
out for a few days.

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Brian wrote

Quoted message said:

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on multi
fuel. What

sort

Quoted message said:

of stove should I go for?

Have to second what Dominic wrote on this. Unless you really
do need something that'll burn most things except coal,
you're better off with gas. Gas is clean, doesn't smell,
shouldn't leak, is no heavier and no more expensive than
most other things. And the stoves are light, quiet and don't
have to sit on top of the canister, and don't flare up when
you first light them in a potentially tent-melting way.

That said, I have a Primus multifuel (forget which variant)
that will burn almost everything, including gas. Its
performance using gas cylinders is compromised; it takes
longer than a dedicated gas stove, and whatever you burn it
sounds like a jet aircraft. It's been very handy when
travelling to the US, where gas (ie, gas...not 'gas', ie
petrol) can be hard to come by though, and if you were going
on an extended trek then it would be right up your street.

However, it isn't light, although I did drill off the legs,
allowing it to slot into the base of the larger Trangia,
where wind just encourages it. Fun if you're in a crazy
world of Arthur Brown mood.

T.

* Brian <[email hidden]> deigned to grace
uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the gas cannister as I find
these not very stable.

IMO avoid meths - It's got a low calorific value, it stinks
your kit out and contaminates food if the storage container
leaks, it soots cooking utensils, you can't properly control
the flame, also the flame is invisible in the sunlight -
with attendant danger. I'm at a loss as to why the Trangia
is so popular! Maybe it's because it's favoured by youth
groups for its robustness, and folk that have been
introduced to them this way tend to stick with them in the
absence of knowing better.

I'd go for gas. I use a Coleman Artic(?) - it folds small
and has a pre-heating loop to keep the butane/propane
gasseous in cold weather.

Regards: Jim Ford

"Brian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the

gas

Quoted message said:

cannister as I find these not very stable.

Some of us find them quite stable enough - what's the
problem?

Quoted message said:

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on multi
fuel. What

sort

Quoted message said:

of stove should I go for?

Carrying petrol is almost as bad as carrying radioactive
materials. Toxic spills are bad in all cases.

Quoted message said:

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone
have any

experience

Quoted message said:

of this stove?

You could get a gas burner for it as well.
--
Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
Ce poulet a une grenade!

Brian said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the gas cannister as I find
these not very stable.

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on multi
fuel. What sort of stove should I go for?

Liquid multi-fuel pressure stoves are great if:

- you're going somewhere with marginal fuel supplies (most
of us aren't)
- you need a lot of raw power to melt snow for a water
supply (most of us don't)

They're pretty ghastly in many other respects. They need
more maintenance than almost any other stove, they're
fiddlier to light, often less easy to control the output
(certainly in relation to gas) and the lighting requires
priming which is more of a fire hazard than any other aspect
of camp stove cooking. And they're expensive. I think an
awful lot have been sold on the back of them being thought
"proper mountaineering equipment", as opposed to actually
being best for the user's particular needs.

A modern light gas stove with a wide tripod that takes its
gas through a feed hose rather than a direct mount is
probably the best general purpose UK camping stove you'll
get. The Trangia with gas conversion is more stable and
windproof, but is heavier and more expensive. Note that the
Primus Omnifuel and Multifuel stoves will let you use gas
cartridges too, but they don't have a dedicated gas spreader
rose and don't work quite as well as a dedicated gas stove.

Quoted message said:

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone
have any experience of this stove?

The T-minis are okay if you want a fresh brew on a hillside,
but they're a bit limited for much in the way of real
cooking IMHO.

I'd get a better gas stove, unless you're planning on
expeditions where gas cartridges aren't for sale or lots of
time over the snowline with no other water.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, Jim Ford
<ford@watford53 .freeserve.co.uk> writes

Quoted message said:

* Brian <[email hidden]> deigned to grace
uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the gas cannister as I find
these not very stable.

IMO avoid meths - It's got a low calorific value, it stinks
your kit out and contaminates food if the storage container
leaks, it soots cooking utensils,

Ah now I think that's a plus. It cleans off dead easily and
it's such a good feeling - you know, like shaving off 4 (or
8) days of stubble...

Quoted message said:

you can't properly control the flame, also the flame is
invisible in the sunlight - with attendant danger. I'm at a
loss as to why the Trangia is so popular! Maybe it's
because it's favoured by youth groups for its robustness,
and folk that have been introduced to them this way tend to
stick with them in the absence of knowing better.

I'd go for gas. I use a Coleman Artic(?) - it folds small
and has a pre-heating loop to keep the butane/propane
gasseous in cold weather.

Ah now there we have it. I started life on gas (actually, I
started on primus stoves, for one expedition only) and moved
to trangia for 2 reasons:

- getting gas to work in the cold
- never knowing when the gas would run out

I fondly thought that the Trangia weight didn't matter, as
it had the billies (as they were then known) thrown in as
part of the works. It was quite a surprise when we did some
equipment weighing in this group a few years back to
discover what a big difference there is in weight. My last
outing we used gas and I was pleasantly surprised by its
ease of use and speed of heating. Reluctantly, I'm probably
going to return to gas: it's a traumatic feeling (so
disloyal) - a bit like sacking your operating system. (I'm
thinking of doing that too...)

--
Michael Farthing cyclades Software House

"Brian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the

gas

Quoted message said:

cannister as I find these not very stable.

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on multi
fuel. What

sort

Quoted message said:

of stove should I go for?

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone
have any

experience

Quoted message said:

of this stove?

Have a look at optimus.sehikerOpen ↗

This is similar to the first stove I ever bought (I've got
the older 111 model). It will burn kerosene, white spirits
and meths.

They are excellent stoves, very well made and very hot, but
they are on the heavy side. It came in useful when I moved
into my new house 6 weeks before the gas cooker arrived!!

Dave.

Brian said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the gas cannister as I find
these not very stable.

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on multi
fuel. What sort of stove should I go for?

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone
have any experience of this stove?

I've had an MSR Dragonfly for about 5 years now, and found
it to be fantastic, its done endless weekend trips, weeks in
Spain, France & Corsica, -where you can get petrol far
easier than gas/meths- its also recently done 5 weeks of
constant use in Iceland using pretty dirty fuel with the
minimal of maintance.

One point worth noting though is that only a few weeks back
a small weld broke on the burner assembly, luckly this
happened while I was at home as it made the stove almost
usuable, but to First Ascent's (UK importers of MSR) credit,
with just one email and no questions asked it was replaced
within a week, not bad for a 5 year old stove thats had a
fair thrashing.

I have used Trangia's (both Meths and Gas), Gas stoves and a
variety of petrol/multi-fuel stoves and I can say for
certain that I would go for the dragonfly everytime. Its not
a cheap stove but its served me well.

Cheers Si,

--
Si, 22/04/2004 18:35:25 www.srhymes.co.uk
www.dartmoorrouteplanner.org.uk

In article <[email hidden]>,
Joe Bloggs <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Brian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the

gas

Quoted message said:

cannister as I find these not very stable.

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on
multi fuel. What

sort

Quoted message said:

of stove should I go for?

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone
have any

experience

Quoted message said:

of this stove?

Have a look at optimus.sehikerOpen ↗

This is similar to the first stove I ever bought (I've got
the older 111 model). It will burn kerosene, white spirits
and meths.

They are excellent stoves, very well made and very hot, but
they are on the heavy side. It came in useful when I moved
into my new house 6 weeks before the gas cooker arrived!!

I'm sure it is great to cook with but I would not want to
carry it for any great length of time. But it is over a
1.1kg heavier than my favourite lightweight cooking set =
pot, stove, gas, matches, windbreak & spoon!

I feel it was probably named the Hiker in the days when over
1.5kg was par for the course for a portable stove.

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Brian <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the gas cannister as I find
these not very stable.

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on multi
fuel. What sort of stove should I go for?

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone
have any experience of this stove?

Thanks for the replies. Seems that gas is most popular.

Here is the stove that I currently have:

sunnflair.comsg1057.gifOpen ↗

The issue I have with gas stoves are that the gas cannisters
are bulky, and you can't easily tell how much is left, and
you have "empties" to dispose of.

Think I'll do a bit more research. Not sure about meths
stoves as I read that you cannot see if they are lit, and
take too long to heat anything up.

Petrol / Multifuel stoves need pumping to pressurise.

The least hassle stove would be a simple gas stove with
remote cannister.

But I'll still do some more research, and hopefully hear
some more info on stoves from you guys in uk.rec.walking.

cheers

--
Brian

In article <[email hidden]>,
Brian <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Brian <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the gas cannister as I find
these not very stable.

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on
multi fuel. What sort of stove should I go for?

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone
have any experience of this stove?

Thanks for the replies. Seems that gas is most popular.

Here is the stove that I currently have:

sunnflair.comsg1057.gifOpen ↗

The issue I have with gas stoves are that the gas
cannisters are bulky, and you can't easily tell how much is
left, and you have "empties" to dispose of.

Think I'll do a bit more research. Not sure about meths
stoves as I read that you cannot see if they are lit,

But you can tell very easily by putting your hand a foot or
so above the burner. As long as you are aware that it is
hard to see the flame you can factor that in.

Quoted message said:

and take too long to heat anything up.

It depends. I often do other things like putting up the tent
or sorting out some gear and it is boiled by the time I am
ready. Sure my gas stoves (MSR Pocket Rocket & Edelred
Scorpion) both boil faster, are easier to light and have
more control but I still carry the Trangia sometimes.

On my last backpack trip I carried the MSR and my son
carried the Mini Trangia. Both meals were ready at almost
the same time.

Quoted message said:

Petrol / Multifuel stoves need pumping to pressurise.

And have lots more to go wrong than a basic stove like a
Trangia or a gas burner. They are also relatively heavy
unless you are going on an extended trip where the fuel
weight comes into consideration. And the cost a bob or two!

Quoted message said:

The least hassle stove would be a simple gas stove with
remote cannister.

My Edelred is like that but I don't carry it as often as the
MSR because it is heavier. The MSR is a canister top stove
but being aware of the instability issue I have never
actually had a problem with it tipping over. I do always use
pots with good handles though and that helps avoid mishaps.

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Brian <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the gas cannister as I find
these not very stable.

I had been thinking of getting a stove which runs on multi
fuel. What sort of stove should I go for?

I have also looked at the mini trangia 28. Does anyone
have any experience of this stove?

Well after reading all the replies I think I'm either
going to go for a gas stove with remote cannister, or a
mini trangia.

However, I may even order a Swedish Army Trangia stove,
around £10 from various army surplus shops online. At that
price if it isn't all that good, then not much lost!

Still going to do a bit more research though.

Any other suggestions?

--
Brian

"Jim Ford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* Brian <[email hidden]> deigned to grace
uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking of replacing my cheap and cheerfull
gas stove with something a bit better. I'm not keen on
stoves which fit on top of the

gas

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cannister as I find these not very stable.

IMO avoid meths - It's got a low calorific value, it
stinks your kit out

and

Quoted message said:

contaminates food if the storage container leaks, it
soots cooking

utensils,

Quoted message said:

you can't properly control the flame, also the flame is
invisible in the sunlight - with attendant danger. I'm at
a loss as to why the Trangia is

so

Quoted message said:

popular! Maybe it's because it's favoured by youth
groups for its

robustness,

Quoted message said:

and folk that have been introduced to them this way tend
to stick with

them

Quoted message said:

in the absence of knowing better.

Nope - I got a gas burner recently (incidentally, the
thermotech one linked in the first reply) and it was
rubbish; gas doesn't work well in the cold, and the delivery
of fuel changes as the canister gets used up. All that
shaking you have to do in the last third of the canister is
a right royal PITA, and is difficult to do without toppling
the whole lot. You can't tell very easily when it's going to
run out, and all the gas systems I've ever used are very
badly affected by the wind. Due to cold, wind, half-full
canister, and an imperceptibly slight breath of wind, on my
last trip it took 20 mins to boil a very small pan of water,
and I had to watch it every second. Not a pleasant
experience. Next time I go out bivying on my own in the
spring, I will *not* rely on gas, and I'll take the extra
weight gladly. But the gas stove'll be nice with the family.

The Trangia is about the only thing that works better in the
wind than not. It's also safe, stable, and very very
reliable. You can leave it boiling while you put up/take
down the tent, safe in the knowledge that it won't topple
over, even on a slope (which is very far from my experience
with gas!). There aren't any moving parts, which means it
will go on forever, and simply won't go wrong. In terms of
stinky & a contaminant - yes, but I'm not aware of any
liquid fuel that isn't. That's why you screw the container
tight and don't keep it near the food! For long trips it's
not recommended as meths is heavy and bulky; but gas
canisters will take up a similar amount of space; and it's
far less easy to tell how much gas you've got left. It's
popular with 'youth groups' because it's easy to use and
will last out all the beatings you can give it. It's popular
with the rest of us because it will not fail, which is
important when you're on the side of hill in December.

At the moment, I can't recommend gas, except in the porch of
tent pitched on a flat piece of ground, on still day, in the
summer, with a brand new canister; but each to their own.

I prefer the MSR on petrol in winter. If festering for a
long time, guilt free tea is a real plus. Being able to brew
at will without worrying about the gas running out is very
good news. I often do very long trips around New Year, (last
year 14 days out) and I would soon run out of gas.

Summer trips on the move, I use gas.

Richard Webb

On 22 Apr 2004 09:43:28 GMT, Jim Ford <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

IMO avoid meths - It's got a low calorific value, it stinks
your kit out and contaminates food if the storage container
leaks, it soots cooking utensils, you can't properly
control the flame, also the flame is invisible in the
sunlight - with attendant danger. I'm at a loss as to why
the Trangia is so popular! Maybe it's because it's favoured
by youth groups for its robustness, and folk that have been
introduced to them this way tend to stick with them in the
absence of knowing better.

A few years ago there was a tragic accident involving a
primary school pupil and a Trangia Stove while on a
school trip.

The pupil told a trip assistant that his stove had gone out
and it needed a refill. The assistant went to the main tent
and got the half full 5 gallon meths can. As soon as he
started to refill the stove, the can blew up spluttering
burning meths all over the young child. The child suffered
very severe burns, and probably only escaped with his live
because the camp was close to East Grinstead and its famous
burns unit.

What has happened was this:
1. The Trangia was not out, only appeared to be out. Meths
burns with a blue flame.
2. The half full meths can was stored in a warm tent. The
*empty* half of the can was full of warm meths vapour.
3. When the meths was poured, the vapour exploded, the
rapid expansion caused by the explosion caused the can's
structure to give way splattering the hapless boy with
burning meths.

Trangia now produce a gas stove as an option. They recommend
filling meths stoves by a small flask with a safety cap.

Brian said:

sunnflair.comsg1057.gifOpen ↗

The issue I have with gas stoves are that the gas
cannisters are bulky, and you can't easily tell how much
is left, and you have "empties" to dispose of.

Gas cannisters aren't intrinsically worse than any other
sort of fuel bottle, though. I find I can tell by weighing
it in my hand and shaking it before I leave if I'm likely
to be in danger of running dry, and in that case the can is
relegated to a future car camping trip or home fondue where
it doesn't matter if I run out and disposing of the empty
one is a non-issue. Of course, you can only do this with
self-sealing cartridges, but I'd very much recommend them
in any case.

Quoted message said:

Think I'll do a bit more research. Not sure about meths
stoves as I read that you cannot see if they are lit, and
take too long to heat anything up.

[censored] for snow melting, certainly, but most cooking is time
management. I was once mocked for using a trangia because
they're so slow by someone with an MSR. I challenged him to
a race, first one to hot dinner. I won 30 seconds later,
because my dinner had been cooking safely on its own while
we got camp set up, and he was still fiddling with his MSR
when my dinner was getting eaten. A trangia can be left to
its own devices more than any other stove as it won't flare,
is largely unbothered by wind and is very stable. If you
want to check if it's lit then just lower a match over the
burner and see if it lights.

Quoted message said:

Petrol / Multifuel stoves need pumping to pressurise.

That's not a problem as the pump is built into the fuel
bottle adapter on most and it's just a few strokes. The real
pain with them is priming before they get going which takes
practice to do without flaring and small fireballs. It makes
the stoves intrinsically far more dangerous to use in a
tent. They also need more maintenance.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Brian <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Well after reading all the replies I think I'm either
going to go for a gas stove with remote cannister, or a
mini trangia.

However, I may even order a Swedish Army Trangia stove,
around £10 from various army surplus shops online. At that
price if it isn't all that good, then not much lost!

Still going to do a bit more research though.

Any other suggestions?

However, according to a websearch, the Swedish Army Trangias
are very very heavy!

So I'm leaning more towards the mini trangia.

--
Brian

Ken said:

Nope - I got a gas burner recently (incidentally, the
thermotech one li=

nked

Quoted message said:

in the first reply) and it was rubbish; gas doesn't work
well in the co=

ld,

There's gas and there's gas. The propane mixes readily
available now=20 do cold significantly better than
pure butane. Costs more, but works=20 better: you pays
your money...

Quoted message said:

and the delivery of fuel changes as the canister gets
used up.

Yes. But I haven't found this much of a problem in practice.

Quoted message said:

shaking you have to do in the last third of the canister
is a right roy=

al

Quoted message said:

PITA, and is difficult to do without toppling the
whole lot.=20

Never done this, still got plenty of use out of them...

Quoted message said:

You can't tell very easily when it's going to run out,

What I do is shake the can before I go away to gauge how
much is in it.=20
If it seems like it's getting to the end I start a new one
straight=20
away and put the low one aside fro later use on car camping
trips, where =

it doesn't matter if it runs out as I'll have another with
me anyway.

Quoted message said:

and all the gas systems I've ever used are very badly
affected by the wind.

I use the Trangia gas conversion, and as with the Trangia in
"native"=20 meths mode, it isn't really troubled much by the
wind. The problem is=20 that the official product is
ludicrously overpriced, but note that=20 Markill do
something very similar for ~=A320.

Quoted message said:

The Trangia is about the only thing that works better in
the wind than =

not.

Quoted message said:

It's also safe, stable, and very very reliable. You can
leave it boilin=

g

Quoted message said:

while you put up/take down the tent, safe in the knowledge
that it won'=

t

Quoted message said:

topple over, even on a slope (which is very far from my
experience with=

Quoted message said:

gas!).=20

Maybe the trangia gas conversion is the one to change your
mind. Most=20 of the basic advantages plus far more
controllable output and none of=20 that bleedin' meths to
stink the tent out, and basically no refuelling=20 to do in
most cases. I use gas as my default, and I have a meths
burner for my Trangia too,=20 and a Primus MFS if I want a
pressurised turbojet, but gas is just=20 easier to use and
IME works fine.

Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382
660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44
1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Think I'll do a bit more research. Not sure about meths
stoves as I read that you cannot see if they are lit,

Quoted message said:

But you can tell very easily by putting your hand a foot
or so above the burner. As long as you are aware that it
is hard to see the flame you can factor that in.

If you add a bit of salt to meths it ought to make the flame
easier to see if it's a worry for anyone. Ordinary salt
(sodium ions) should make it yellow and that Lo Salt stuff
(mostly potassium ions) should make it go lilac. I'll try it
out at work tomorrow.