I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD).
As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole).
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time.
Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
Originally posted by Arthur Harris I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD).
As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole).
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time.
Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
Art Harris
I am sure that I am missing the obvious, but what is wrong with "indexing" the rim over one spoke hole?
"daveornee" wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Arthur Harris said:
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time. Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
I am sure that I am missing the obvious, but what is wrong with "indexing" the rim over one spoke hole?
Well, that would work, and I may end up doing that. But then the valve wouldn't be between two near parallel spokes. I could probably fit a pump onto the valve anyway, but it would look kind of dorky.
I should mention that this is a rear wheel (naturally) with different spoke lengths right and left.
Even if I completely disassemble the wheel, I'm not sure I could re-lace it "properly" without the spokes pulling differently on the hub flanges (not good!).
Originally posted by Arthur Harris "daveornee" wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Arthur Harris said:
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time. Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
I am sure that I am missing the obvious, but what is wrong with "indexing" the rim over one spoke hole?
Well, that would work, and I may end up doing that. But then the valve wouldn't be between two near parallel spokes. I could probably fit a pump onto the valve anyway, but it would look kind of dorky.
I should mention that this is a rear wheel (naturally) with different spoke lengths right and left.
Even if I completely disassemble the wheel, I'm not sure I could re-lace it "properly" without the spokes pulling differently on the hub flanges (not good!).
Art Harris
Yes, you will have the "dorky" spoke arrangement by the valve hole, but unless you get a rim with the same handedness, you will not be able to attain the same alignment at the hub.
Is the rim you are replacing also a Torelli?
I have also done this type of swap many times, but never run into the diferent handedness of rims yet. I once replaced a SUN Rims CR18 with another SUN Rims CR18 and found out that the ERD wasn't the same. Now I always measure the ERDs, Spoke lengths, hub data, and then compare them before "blindly" moving ahead.
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time. Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
Dave Ornee asked:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I am sure that I am missing the obvious, but what is wrong with "indexing" the rim over one spoke hole?
Well, that would work, and I may end up doing that. But then the valve wouldn't be between two near parallel spokes. I could probably fit a pump onto the valve anyway, but it would look kind of dorky.
I should mention that this is a rear wheel (naturally) with different spoke lengths right and left.
Even if I completely disassemble the wheel, I'm not sure I could re-lace it "properly" without the spokes pulling differently on the hub flanges (not good!).
If you want to do this, the thing to do is to remove all of the left side spokes from the hub and move them one hole over (either direction.)
The issue of the spoke indentations in the hub flange is insignificant with the left side of a rear wheel, because those spokes are at low tension.
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I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD).
As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole).
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time.
Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
Art Harris
Rotate the new rim one spoke and then tape them together.
"Arthur Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD).
As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole).
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time.
Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
Art Harris
The obvious answer is to switch the rim around the other way. Yeah, the logo won't line up (be the same as the front: read it from the drive side) right, but it'll be MUCH easier than trying to re-lace the whole thing.
I've had this problem a few times in my life. I don't like it, but I rationalize it because you can't see the logos when you're riding anyway...
The obvious answer is to switch the rim around the other way. Yeah, the
logo
Quoted message said:
won't line up (be the same as the front: read it from the drive side)
right, but
Quoted message said:
it'll be MUCH easier than trying to re-lace the whole thing.
Nope, that doesn't work! Hold a rim horizontally on your lap with the valve hole opposite you. Let's say the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole is offset downward. Now flip the rim over. The spoke hole to the left of the valve hole will still be offset downward. Try it.
If you want to do this, the thing to do is to remove all of the left side spokes from the hub and move them one hole over (either direction.)
Yikes! I'm having trouble picturing how to do that. Guess I'd start by lining the two rims up together, but offset by one hole. Then transfer the the right side spokes one at a time. Then remove each left side spoke from the hub and move them one hole over in the flange. Would the left side outbound spokes become inbound?
What if I just kept the left side spokes in the hub, but re-routed where they go on the rim? Would that have the same effect?
The issue of the spoke indentations in the hub flange is insignificant with the left side of a rear wheel, because those spokes are at low tension.
I'm glad to hear you say this. I had this same problem a while back and I decided that was probably the case, but didn't really like having the new spokes cross over the grooves from the old spokes.
Several months later, the wheel is true and no catastrophic flange failiures yet..
Originally posted by Arthur Harris "daveornee" wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Arthur Harris said:
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time. Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
I am sure that I am missing the obvious, but what is wrong with "indexing" the rim over one spoke hole?
Well, that would work, and I may end up doing that. But then the valve wouldn't be between two near parallel spokes. I could probably fit a pump onto the valve anyway, but it would look kind of dorky.
I should mention that this is a rear wheel (naturally) with different spoke lengths right and left.
Even if I completely disassemble the wheel, I'm not sure I could re-lace it "properly" without the spokes pulling differently on the hub flanges (not good!).
Art Harris
So, if you want the valve hole between two near parallel spokes, why don't you just do this... Find on the old rim where the valve hole is between two parallel spokes and not the offset in the rim. Then, on the new rim rotate it such that the high/low offset matches the two parallel spokes. Tape the rims together. One and a time, unscrew and then screw the new spoke and nipple to the new rim making sure that the pattern for the offset matches so that you get the parallel spokes at the valve hole. Presto!
I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD).
Quoted message said:
As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole).
Quoted message said:
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time.
Quoted message said:
Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
Don't bother. Move the rim to a position where the holes in the old and new are parallel such that the stem is one space off from where it would be ideally and transfer spokes as usual. The reason for this is twofold. Don't respoke a hub in a different spoke pattern or you encourage flange failure. Don't take spokes out of the hub because that encourages spoke failures. Aesthetically its only a theoretical difference and makes no practical difference in use.
"Arthur Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD).
As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole).
Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time.
Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same?
Art Harris
The obvious answer is to switch the rim around the other way. Yeah, the logo won't line up (be the same as the front: read it from the drive side) right, but it'll be MUCH easier than trying to re-lace the whole thing.
You have the wrong impression of what the OP said. It has to do with which side the spoke offset is. You can't just flip the wheel around because you'll get a 180-degree rotation of the next spoke hole, which is itself a 180-mirror of the previous one, so you get a 360-rotation in effect.
Regardless, the real way to handle wrong logos is to do the Rubik's Cube method... take off the sticker(s) and put them back on the way you want them 😉
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:50:21 -0700, "SDMike" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
The obvious answer is to switch the rim around the other way. Yeah, the logo won't line up (be the same as the front: read it from the drive side) right, but it'll be MUCH easier than trying to re-lace the whole thing.
I've had this problem a few times in my life. I don't like it, but I rationalize it because you can't see the logos when you're riding anyway...
STOP! Don't do it! You're in for MAJOR DANGER! It's not a logo at all. Read this: groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗ lm=ahfj10l6jh3rv5u3sgjqprq7m0t22uu2kf%404ax.com -- Rick "What, Alfred E. Neuman worry?" Onanian
If you want to do this, the thing to do is to remove all of the left side spokes from the hub and move them one hole over (either direction.)
Arthur Harris said:
Yikes! I'm having trouble picturing how to do that. Guess I'd start by lining the two rims up together, but offset by one hole. Then transfer the the right side spokes one at a time. Then remove each left side spoke from the hub and move them one hole over in the flange.
That sounds right.
Quoted message said:
Would the left side outbound spokes become inbound?
No, each spoke should be inserted the same way through the hub, and point in the same direction as before, just one hole over in the hub from where they were with the opposite- handed rim.
Quoted message said:
What if I just kept the left side spokes in the hub, but re-routed where they go on the rim? Would that have the same effect?
No, the length wouldn't work out if you did that.
Sheldon "Insert Nickname Here" Brown +-------------------------------------------------------- ---------+ | This message has been sent to you using recycled | electrons | exclusively. Please do not discard them | after use, | send them along and help conserve these | irreplaceable | sub-atomic resources for future | generations. | +----------------------------------------------------------- ------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244- 9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗
"Arthur Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD). As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole). Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time.
-snip- SDMike said:
The obvious answer is to switch the rim around the other way. Yeah, the logo won't line up (be the same as the front: read it from the drive side) right, but it'll be MUCH easier than trying to re-lace the whole thing.
-snip-
Is that a joke? Flipping the rim still leaves the "handedness' intact. (I peel off my labels anyway)
-- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD). As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole). Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time. Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same? Art Harris
I am sure that I am missing the obvious, but what is wrong with "indexing" the rim over one spoke hole?
The valve ends up in an unaesthetic small aperture instead of the usual wide point. Works but looks ugly.
I'm with Art- that's a tough break.
-- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:31:26 -0500, A Muzi <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
daveornee said:
Arthur Harris said:
I've built many wheels over the years and also swapped rims, so I figured it would be a snap to replace my old rim with a new Torelli Master (same ERD). As most of you know, the first step when lacing a wheel is to determine whether the rime is "right handed" or "left handed" (i.e., the offset of the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole). Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a time. Is there an easy way of swapping these rims while keeping the valve hole in the proper location AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the same? Art Harris
I am sure that I am missing the obvious, but what is wrong with "indexing" the rim over one spoke hole?
The valve ends up in an unaesthetic small aperture instead of the usual wide point. Works but looks ugly.
I'm with Art- that's a tough break.
I'd live with the valve in the "wrong" spot as well.
But would anyone consider drilling a second valve hole in the "right" spot? I'd think about it, but I'm not sure if I'd really try it.
-snip- Well, it turns out that my new rim has the opposite "handedness" of my
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> old rim. So I can't just transfer the spokes one at a > time. Is there an easy way of swapping these rims > while keeping the valve hole in the proper location > AND keeping the spoke orientation at the hub the > same?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
daveornee said:
I am sure that I am missing the obvious, but what is wrong with "indexing" the rim over one spoke hole?
A Muzi said:
Quoted message said:
The valve ends up in an unaesthetic small aperture instead of the usual wide point. Works but looks ugly. I'm with Art- that's a tough break.
dianne_1234 said:
I'd live with the valve in the "wrong" spot as well. But would anyone consider drilling a second valve hole in the "right" spot? I'd think about it, but I'm not sure if I'd really try it.
Continuing OT: One of our in-house comics drilled an extra hole in a rim once and bolted in a presta valve to an otherwise Schrader tube. "Hey I don't need any adapters".
I wouldn't either, but I assume it would work OK.
Where's the limit? I suppose an extra 31 valve holes would likely have a significant effect on rim strength.
-- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
