Dr Barrett comment

Quoted message said:

Subject: Dr Barrett comment
From: Ilena Rose [email hidden]
Date: 4/21/2004 4:56 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Would you please give the source for this quote from the
King of Quackery himself?

In my ever humble opinion ... he's wrong about MCS, he's
wrong about chelation, he's wrong about acupuncture ...
just as he was wrong about
me ... (to name but a few.)

Indeed. I would like to see him in a room full of our
service men and claim GWS isn't real.

The sad part is, he is denying these diseases so the
chemical and insurance companies won't have to pay. He isn't
protecting the public, he is protecting EOM.

Jan

Quoted message said:

www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Dr Barrett comment From: Ilena Rose
[email hidden] Date: 4/21/2004 4:56 PM Pacific Standard
Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

Would you please give the source for this quote from the
King of Quackery himself?

In my ever humble opinion ... he's wrong about MCS, he's
wrong about chelation, he's wrong about acupuncture ...
just as he was wrong about
me ... (to name but a few.)

Indeed. I would like to see him in a room full of our
service men and

claim GWS

Quoted message said:

isn't real.

The sad part is, he is denying these diseases so the
chemical and

insurance

Quoted message said:

companies won't have to pay. He isn't protecting the
public, he is

protecting

Quoted message said:

EOM.

Hi Jan. Other than your idle speculation, can you post any
actual proof that you are correct in you claim about
Barrett's protective motives?

Thanks!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ilena Rose said:

Would you please give the source for this quote from the
King of Quackery himself?

In my ever humble opinion ... he's wrong about MCS,

I'm not conversant enough with the data to know for sure if
Barrett's wrong about MCS or not, but I suspect he's
probably not.

Quoted message said:

he's wrong about
chelation,

I do know enough about the data on chelation to conclude
that Barrett's definitely NOT wrong about it. Every
randomized, double-blind study done thus far save one (which
was very small, poorly designed, and never followed up on)
has failed to show any effect of chelation therapy
distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of coronary
artery disease or peripheral vascular disease. No study thus
far done has ever been able to show that chelation therapy
can decrease the size of atherosclerotic plaques, as its
adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

<< I do know enough about the data on chelation to conclude
that Barrett's definitely NOT wrong about it. Every
randomized, double-blind study done thus far save one (which
was very small, poorly designed, and never followed up on)
has failed to show any effect of chelation therapy
distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of coronary
artery disease or peripheral vascular disease. No study thus
far done has ever been able to show that chelation therapy
can decrease the size of atherosclerotic plaques, as its
adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

[Snip]

--
Orac

Tell us all you know about chelation, Orac, and how you
gained this personal experience. I am not talking about
reading studies, or information. I am talking about actual
experience using chelation on your own body. I want to know
what you have personally used, (what forms of chelation),
and why you would make such a foolish statement about
chelation, because I personally know differently.....I've
had personal experience, and my conventional medical doctor
prescribed the chelation......and has the results that it
does work.

"If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance."
(Jessie Winchester).

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dr Barrett comment
From: [email hidden] (DEBBEE1023)
Date: 4/24/2004 8:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

Quoted message said:

I am talking about actual experience using chelation on
your own body. I want to

Quoted message said:

I personally know differently.....I've had personal
experience, and my convention

the statement above ''does not work for athersclerosis"
is the issue

chelation DOES work for heavy metals..ie lead..iron..mercury

apples and oranges

hawki.....

In article <[email hidden]>,

(DEBBEE1023) said:

<< I do know enough about the data on chelation to
conclude that Barrett's definitely NOT wrong about it.
Every randomized, double-blind study done thus far save
one (which was very small, poorly designed, and never
followed up on) has failed to show any effect of chelation
therapy distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of
coronary artery disease or peripheral vascular disease. No
study thus far done has ever been able to show that
chelation therapy can decrease the size of atherosclerotic
plaques, as its adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for
atherosclerosis. Orac

Tell us all you know about chelation, Orac, and how you
gained this personal experience. I am not talking about
reading studies, or information. I am talking about actual
experience using chelation on your own body. I want to
know what you have personally used, (what forms of
chelation), and why you would make such a foolish
statement about chelation, because I personally know
differently.....I've had personal experience, and my
conventional medical doctor prescribed the
chelation......and has the results that it does work.

You place way too much emphasis on personal experience and
not nearly enough emphasis on actual data. For instance, I
have no personal experience actually jumping off the roof of
a skyscraper, but I know that there would be a very, very
close to 100% likelihood of my dying if I were to do so. I
know this because we have very good data for fatality rates
for falls as a function of distance fallen, and for adults
these fatality rates rapidly approach 100% as the fall goes
higher than five stories or so, and that survival is almost
zero for falls higher than 10 stories or so.

If you don't believe the above data and would prefer to rely
on the "personal experience" of jumping out of a high
building to determine what would happen, you are, of course,
welcome to do so. Me, I'll stick with the data here.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hawki63) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dr Barrett comment From:
[email hidden] (DEBBEE1023) Date: 4/24/2004
8:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: <20040424111547.22325.00000149@mb-
m19.aol.com>

Quoted message said:

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

Quoted message said:

I am talking about actual experience using chelation on
your own body. I want to

Quoted message said:

I personally know differently.....I've had personal
experience, and my convention

the statement above ''does not work for athersclerosis" is
the issue

chelation DOES work for heavy metals..ie
lead..iron..mercury

apples and oranges

Good point. When I say that chelation therapy doesn't work,
I'm careful to say that it doesn't work for atherosclerosis.
As you point out, it does work for heavy metal poisoning. Of
course, the problem here is that alties attribute all sorts
of diseases to heavy metal poisoning that is never proven or
documented and that doesn't exist.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

DEBBEE1023 said:

Quoted message said:

<< I do know enough about the data on chelation to
conclude that Barrett's definitely NOT wrong about it.
Every randomized, double-blind study done thus far save
one (which was very small, poorly designed, and never
followed up on) has failed to show any effect of chelation
therapy distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of
coronary artery disease or peripheral vascular disease. No
study thus far done has ever been able to show that
chelation therapy can decrease the size of atherosclerotic
plaques, as its adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

[Snip]

--
Orac

Tell us all you know about chelation, Orac, and how you
gained this personal experience. I am not talking about
reading studies, or information. I am talking about actual
experience using chelation on your own body. I want to know
what you have personally used, (what forms of chelation),
and why you would make such a foolish statement about
chelation, because I personally know differently.....I've
had personal experience, and my conventional medical doctor
prescribed the chelation......and has the results that it
does work.

Boy, ain't that the essence of the altie-nitwit mindset (I
use the word "mind" advisedly)? "I used treatment X and
afterwards I got better, so (a) I know that the treatment
was responsible, and (b) it'll work for anyone, and (c) my
experience trumps any number of double-blind studies."

Guess what, Debbee? You're still a fool and you haven't
proved a thing. In the double-blind tests, many of the
participants did feel better afterwards. About the same
percentage of those who got the placebo versus the chelation
saw the improvement. Conclusion: it was being part of the
treatment group, not the chelation, that made the
difference.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Chelation does work. I have experienced it myself orally and
seen a few cases of IV chelation that have done health
miracles for the subjects.

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040424111547.22325.00000149@mb-
m19.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

<< I do know enough about the data on chelation to
conclude that Barrett's definitely NOT wrong about it.
Every randomized, double-blind study done thus far save
one (which was very small, poorly designed, and never
followed up on) has failed to show any effect of chelation
therapy distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of
coronary artery disease or peripheral vascular disease. No
study thus far done has ever been able to show that
chelation therapy can decrease the size of atherosclerotic
plaques, as its adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

[Snip]

--
Orac

Tell us all you know about chelation, Orac, and how you
gained this

personal

Quoted message said:

experience. I am not talking about reading studies, or
information. I am talking about actual experience using
chelation on your own body. I want

to

Quoted message said:

know what you have personally used, (what forms of
chelation), and why you would make such a foolish
statement about chelation, because I personally

know

Quoted message said:

differently.....I've had personal experience, and my
conventional medical doctor prescribed the
chelation......and has the results that it does

work.

Quoted message said:

"If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well
dance." (Jessie

Winchester).