Worn dropout question

GaryM said:

I have a Cannondale F3000SL. I was replacing the disk
brakes recently and found that I could not prevent the new
pads from rubbing. Upon further inspection I notice that
the dropout was worn and the axle had started to eat into
the frame. This means that the wheel is slightly askew and
no amount of shims can stop the rubbling. I was wondering
if there is a solution, aside from trashing the frame. I
believe Specialized use a steel dropout to prevent this
kind of thing.

Firstly, if the axle is eating in to the frame then you
didn't do up your quick releases tight enough, and the whole
axle was rotating.

Secondly, are you sure that it's the worn dropouts causing
the issue? How deep is hole in the dropout? There are plenty
of reasons why discs might be rubbing - make sure you have
diagnosed the problem correctly.

Thirdly, many alu frames have a steel /mech hanger/ in case
it gets bent. Not the dropouts. Wearing dropouts in the
fashion you describe should never happen.

If it's as bad as you say it is, then I'd say you're a bit
screwed and you've probably made that area weaker. Maybe a
washer or thin nut on the inside of the dropout for the
shimming(?)

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"bomba" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

GaryM said:

I have a Cannondale F3000SL. I was replacing the disk
brakes recently and found that I could not prevent the
new pads from rubbing. Upon further inspection I notice
that the dropout was worn and the axle had started to
eat into the frame. This means that the wheel is
slightly askew and no amount of shims can stop the
rubbling. I was wondering if there is a solution, aside
from trashing the frame. I believe Specialized use a
steel dropout to prevent this kind of thing.

Firstly, if the axle is eating in to the frame then you
didn't do up your quick releases tight enough, and the
whole axle was rotating.

Secondly, are you sure that it's the worn dropouts causing
the issue? How deep is hole in the dropout? There are
plenty of reasons why discs might be rubbing - make sure
you have diagnosed the problem correctly.

Thirdly, many alu frames have a steel /mech hanger/ in
case it gets bent. Not the dropouts. Wearing dropouts in
the fashion you describe should never happen.

If it's as bad as you say it is, then I'd say you're a bit
screwed and you've probably made that area weaker. Maybe a
washer or thin nut on the inside of the dropout for the
shimming(?)

I've seen this happen, especially w/Shimano axles - repeated
removal and re-fitting, and the knurled nut can bite away
bits of metal over time. My suggestion would also be the
(steel) washer thing.

Shaun aRe

GaryM said:

I have a Cannondale F3000SL. I was replacing the disk
brakes recently and found that I could not prevent the new
pads from rubbing. Upon further inspection I notice that
the dropout was worn and the axle had started to eat into
the frame. This means that the wheel is slightly askew and
no amount of shims can stop the rubbling. I was wondering
if there is a solution, aside from trashing the frame. I
believe Specialized use a steel dropout to prevent this
kind of thing.

Warranty?

Bill "or get used to turning" S.

bomba <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Secondly, are you sure that it's the worn dropouts causing
the issue? How deep is hole in the dropout? There are
plenty of reasons why discs might be rubbing - make sure
you have diagnosed the problem correctly.

I can see thread marks on the frame which leads me to
believe it was rotating as you mentioned. As to how deep,
impossible for me measure, but very smail, perhaps 1mm.

Quoted message said:

If it's as bad as you say it is, then I'd say you're a bit
screwed and you've probably made that area weaker. Maybe a
washer or thin nut on the inside of the dropout for the
shimming(?)

Obviously would prefer not be screwed, but also would love
a good reason to get a new frame 😉. As I am non-
mechanical, how would the washer work? Won't the axle tend
to slip into the groove, so to speak, or does the washer
hold it in place?

Thanks for the reply.

GaryM said:

Quoted message said:

Secondly, are you sure that it's the worn dropouts
causing the issue? How deep is hole in the dropout? There
are plenty of reasons why discs might be rubbing - make
sure you have diagnosed the problem correctly.

I can see thread marks on the frame which leads me to
believe it was rotating as you mentioned.

Are you sure these thread marks aren't just indentations
from the nut? Something like this:
carbuffs.com1963dropout.jpgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

As to how deep, impossible for me measure, but very smail,
perhaps 1mm.

If it's only 1mm, how come you can't shim the caliper?
The washers that came with my discs give me about 10mm to
play with.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it's as bad as you say it is, then I'd say you're a
bit screwed and you've probably made that area weaker.
Maybe a washer or thin nut on the inside of the dropout
for the shimming(?)

Obviously would prefer not be screwed, but also would love
a good reason to get a new frame 😉. As I am non-
mechanical, how would the washer work? Won't the axle tend
to slip into the groove, so to speak, or does the washer
hold it in place?

The washer should go on the axle, between the groove and the
hub. As long as the wheel is held in tight and the washer is
larger than the groove, it should keep everything in place.

bomba <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Are you sure these thread marks aren't just indentations
from the nut? Something like this:
carbuffs.com1963dropout.jpgOpen ↗

No the thread marks are at the top of the groove. Is that a
valid email address? I can use dropload.com to pass you a
few images. I don't have a public web site available to me
unfortunately.

GaryM said:

Quoted message said:

Are you sure these thread marks aren't just indentations
from the nut? Something like this:
carbuffs.com1963dropout.jpgOpen ↗

No the thread marks are at the top of the groove. Is that
a valid email address? I can use dropload.com to pass you
a few images. I don't have a public web site available to
me unfortunately.

Yep, just reactivated it after Hotmail kindly shut it down.
Send me the pics and I'll host them for everyone to have a
look at. Alternatively, you could have a look at
fotopic.netfotopic.netOpen ↗

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a.m-b FAQ: j-harris.netambfaq.htmOpen ↗

b.bmx FAQ: t-online.debmx faq.htmOpen ↗

bomba <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Yep, just reactivated it after Hotmail kindly shut it
down. Send me the pics and I'll host them for everyone to
have a look at. Alternatively, you could have a look at
fotopic.netfotopic.netOpen ↗

OK you should receive a link to retrieve the file shortly.
Let me know if not and I'll register a fotopic account.

Thanks again for helping.

bomba said:

GaryM said:

I have a Cannondale F3000SL. I was replacing the disk
brakes recently and found that I could not prevent the
new pads from rubbing. Upon further inspection I notice
that the dropout was worn and the axle had started to eat
into the frame. This means that the wheel is slightly
askew and no amount of shims can stop the rubbling. I was
wondering if there is a solution, aside from trashing the
frame. I believe Specialized use a steel dropout to
prevent this kind of thing.

Firstly, if the axle is eating in to the frame then you
didn't do up your quick releases tight enough, and the
whole axle was rotating.

It's possible that the QR was tightened, but the miniscule
amount of movement of the axle in the dropout caused it to
hit the dropout over and over. bomba, I think that you're
thinking laterally instead of longitudinally (left and right
instead of the top and bottom directions). I've seen axle
threads completely flattened from use. The QR was EXTREMELY
tight on it... i.e. need leverage from a screwdriver to get
it loose. Rider was 150 lbs, steel frame, XT M756 hub.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training