Immune System

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by jhkenpo
HEY EVERYONE

I'M WONDERING IF ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE FEELS LIKE
THEY GET MORE ILLNESSES WHEN THEY TRAIN. NOTHING MAJOR JUST SORE THROUTS ,COLDS AND SINUS STUFF. I RIDE 4 TO 6 TIMES A WEEK AT A MODERATE TO HARD PACE.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHY THIS WOULD HAPPEN?
AND HOW IF POSSIBLE TO PREVENT IT?

Not a doctor so I don't know the terminology, however when you are training you are wearing down your body including the immune system. Thus rest, rest days, eating right, & throwing on warm up clothes after you ride is important. I also take a daily multi vitamin & additional vitamin C. That should help you out.

I will still have days I feel blah, so I don't ride & I am generally back on the bike the next day with no side effects. If you do catch a bad cold / flu - take it easy for up to two weeks afterwards to avoid dragging it out & you will do that much better because of it.

Hope this helps

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by jhkenpo
HEY EVERYONE

I'M WONDERING IF ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE FEELS LIKE
THEY GET MORE ILLNESSES WHEN THEY TRAIN. NOTHING MAJOR JUST SORE THROUTS ,COLDS AND SINUS STUFF. I RIDE 4 TO 6 TIMES A WEEK AT A MODERATE TO HARD PACE.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHY THIS WOULD HAPPEN?
AND HOW IF POSSIBLE TO PREVENT IT?

jhkenpo,

Thow in some respritory problems and you have the story of my life. It's related to overtraining. Everybody has a different threshold for it. Unfortunately, mine seems to be relatively low. I can push myself as hard as any other person but for some reason I pay the price in the form of colds, sore throats, sinus gunk, etc. etc. My immune system always craps out.

As a result, I've backed way off my intensity levels and try to stay around 75% of MaxHR. That seems to do the trick. However, I'll never make it to the olympics. 🙁 I have found it better to train at lower intensity levels and to do it consistently. If I push myself too hard I always have to take time off to get over some "bug". In the long run I'll be more fit by going slow and steady.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Doctor Morbius
jhkenpo,

Thow in some respritory problems and you have the story of my life. It's related to overtraining. Everybody has a different threshold for it. Unfortunately, mine seems to be relatively low. I can push myself as hard as any other person but for some reason I pay the price in the form of colds, sore throats, sinus gunk, etc. etc. My immune system always craps out.

As a result, I've backed way off my intensity levels and try to stay around 75% of MaxHR. That seems to do the trick. However, I'll never make it to the olympics. 🙁 I have found it better to train at lower intensity levels and to do it consistently. If I push myself too hard I always have to take time off to get over some "bug". In the long run I'll be more fit by going slow and steady.

Your immune system is suppressed after a hard ride for a few hours so it is important to change clothes etc and also research has shown that an increase in carbs afterwards (see ric Stern for details) will help to reduce the immune suppression.

Last year I had a similar thing in terms of some sort of bug every 4-6 weeks. I eventually took 3 weeks of the bike with complete rest and have since been fine at all intensities (I race every weekend)

Also there are some good homeopaths out there who are good at helping with general constitutional issues that may help you in the mid to longer term.

Good luck

Peter

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Doctor Morbius
jhkenpo,

Thow in some respritory problems and you have the story of my life. It's related to overtraining. Everybody has a different threshold for it. Unfortunately, mine seems to be relatively low. I can push myself as hard as any other person but for some reason I pay the price in the form of colds, sore throats, sinus gunk, etc. etc. My immune system always craps out.

As a result, I've backed way off my intensity levels and try to stay around 75% of MaxHR. That seems to do the trick. However, I'll never make it to the olympics. 🙁 I have found it better to train at lower intensity levels and to do it consistently. If I push myself too hard I always have to take time off to get over some "bug". In the long run I'll be more fit by going slow and steady.

Your immune system is suppressed after a hard ride for a few hours so it is important to change clothes etc and also research has shown that an increase in carbs afterwards (see ric Stern for details) will help to reduce the immune suppression.

Last year I had a similar thing in terms of some sort of bug every 4-6 weeks. I eventually took 3 weeks of the bike with complete rest and have since been fine at all intensities (I race every weekend)

Also there are some good homeopaths out there who are good at helping with general constitutional issues that may help you in the mid to longer term.

Good luck

Peter

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by jhkenpo
HEY EVERYONE

I'M WONDERING IF ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE FEELS LIKE
THEY GET MORE ILLNESSES WHEN THEY TRAIN. NOTHING MAJOR JUST SORE THROUTS ,COLDS AND SINUS STUFF. I RIDE 4 TO 6 TIMES A WEEK AT A MODERATE TO HARD PACE.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHY THIS WOULD HAPPEN?
AND HOW IF POSSIBLE TO PREVENT IT?

Hey jhkenpo,
There have been quite a few studies published that talk of an "open window" hypothesis post-training. When we train, we open our bodies up, so to speak, to become hosts to many types of pathogens. If we ride too hard for too long, don't recover enough, and don't have the appropriate diet, then these pathogens can easily enter and attack our system. This "open window" hypothesis, then, is that period of time (whether it's 2 hours or 24+ hours post-exercise) when our bodies are susceptible to infection because of the immunosuppression that occurs due to exercise.

Diet plays a huge role in preventing this. I'm an advocate of taking in enough dietary fat, specifically the omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (found in tuna or flax oil for example), because these have been shown in some studies to positively affect our immunity by attenuating the exercise induced immunosuppression.

Recovery days are huge also. If you're going 4 to 6 days at a moderate to hard pace, that may be a little too much. You might want to look at taking the intensity down a bit for most of the week, but have only 1-2 days of pretty hard riding, with the rest at low to moderate intensity to help your body recover. As your body adapts, you may be able to move the intensity back up slowly on another day or so during the week. The sore throat and sinus stuff that you're talking about sounds like URTI (upper respiratory tract infection), which is very common for athletes such as cyclists and marathoners. We're always out hours and hours every week pushing ourselves in all types of weather and it's sometimes really hard to take in enough calories, recover enough, and get ready to do it again with our regular lives to take care of as well (jobs, family, etc). So try to find a balance of all these, and make sure your diet is sound in order to help prevent further immunosuppression.

Happy training!

Excellent advice here. Believe many of us training ourselves go out too hard every day and don't pay enough attention to diet and recovery/rest. Rather than taking time off after a big event to recover properly, we're obsessed with hitting a weekly mileage schedule; doing more and/or faster week after week.

Opinion: Unless you're a pro, cycling shouldn't be a source of additional stress in your life, but an enjoyable recreational sport. If it's making you sick, rather than contributing to your fitness and wellness, you may want to evaluate your program and goals.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by dhk
Excellent advice here. Believe many of us training ourselves go out too hard every day and don't pay enough attention to diet and recovery/rest. Rather than taking time off after a big event to recover properly, we're obsessed with hitting a weekly mileage schedule; doing more and/or faster week after week.

Opinion: Unless you're a pro, cycling shouldn't be a source of additional stress in your life, but an enjoyable recreational sport. If it's making you sick, rather than contributing to your fitness and wellness, you may want to evaluate your program and goals.

Amen to virtually all of the comments made thus far. Rest and nutrition are the hugely important but often ignored factors in training.

Structure your training so you get a good recovery session on a weekly basis. This may mean doing more on a given day but it works.
I was very successfully training on an increasing volume formula over four days then having three days off. Never got sick, not even a sore throat.

Work, training partner etc. meant I had to change this to one day off a week. The volume of work or intensity hasn't varied that much, but now battle with sore throat, sniffles etc. I'm doing a re-think and decided to get more sleep ( it's now 3 am so that's a crock ) and eat better. Important to get a hit of carbs and protein after training session. Don't over eat though as digestion is also an energy demand.

Funny, I just came off probably the most intense week of training after returning to the bike 10 months ago... and came down down with a nasty head/chest cold that has benched me for 6 days already. Coincidence? Possibly. Totally demoralizing? You bet!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Aztec
Funny, I just came off probably the most intense week of training after returning to the bike 10 months ago... and came down down with a nasty head/chest cold that has benched me for 6 days already. Coincidence? Possibly. Totally demoralizing? You bet!

That's how it goes. I have the same problem. Used to go to the gym and lift weights to try to get back some of that nice physique I had once upon a time and within 3 weeks I was down with a bug. It happened over and over during the 90's. Now I just face the fact that I have to keep my intensity lower in order to get in some decent time on the bike. As far as lifting weights, I now do as much for my entire upper body as I used to for just biceps! What a difference a decade makes.

I don't have any empirical data to back this up but I have a theory that what separates the elite athlete from the weekend warrior is not the training but the immune system. An elite athlete must have an immune system that is akin to the hearty robust pioneers that survived extreme weather conditions back in the days of old before antibiotics and modern medicine.

An elite athlete has the immune system of a shark, while the rest of us have the puny immune systems of a human infant or toddler. It is because of this they can endure their extreme training regimens and bounce back ready to go the next day - or even later that same day!

So on top of their favorable genetics toward their athletic event, they have the ability to recover and regroup in time for the next arduous training session.

Doctor Morbius

I'll buy that. I am ALWAYS wary of catching something. Be it before a vacation or an event. I find myself thinking about how if I were an Olympian or something, I would have at least a 1 in 3 chance of getting sick or dinged up somehow before (or during) an event. I hear about people competing when sick, but there's NO WAY I coul ever pull that off. My alternate for the Olympics would have a great shot at competing in my place.

And it's not will or drive. Pfffff. I have plenty of that.

So, yeah, your theory seems solid to me.

You know, the more I think about it, whenever I would really start to pile on the intensity (not even high volume) at the gym (which is what I did during those non-bike years)... on would come a cold/flu.

I remember being just a few workouts into a brutal 20-rep squat program when that happened and ruined all my momentum...

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Doctor Morbius
An elite athlete has the immune system of a shark, while the rest of us have the puny immune systems of a human infant or toddler. It is because of this they can endure their extreme training regimens and bounce back ready to go the next day - or even later that same day!

So on top of their favorable genetics toward their athletic event, they have the ability to recover and regroup in time for the next arduous training session.

Doctor Morbius

To add to this, the risk of becoming ill, with e.g., an upper respiratory tract infection is higher in people who train with greater intensity/volume than people who train easier. There's a 'J' shaped model exists between exercise and illness (Nieman, 1994), such that you'd expect elite athletes to be more ill than recreational ones. see http://cyclecoach.com/articles/?article=Illness&ext=.htm for some more details

Ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by peterwright
Your immune system is suppressed after a hard ride for a few hours so it is important to change clothes etc and also research has shown that an increase in carbs afterwards (see ric Stern for details) will help to reduce the immune suppression.

Just to add a little, taking in carbs immediately post exercise has been shown to reduce the chance of infection, and will help also to restore muscle glycogen levels. Aim for 1.0 to 1.5 g of carbohydrate per kg bodymass.

ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Aztec
You know, the more I think about it, whenever I would really start to pile on the intensity (not even high volume) at the gym (which is what I did during those non-bike years)... on would come a cold/flu.

I remember being just a few workouts into a brutal 20-rep squat program when that happened and ruined all my momentum...

LOL! Saying "brutal" and then "20-rep squat program" together is redundant! That sounds like murder.

Do you have a bad back from squatting? I've ruined mine partly from putting 300 LBS on my back and partly from jogging. My cousin's son is a personal trainer and he says that everybody he knows that has done heavy squats when they were younger all have bad backs. He also said that if you weigh over 200 LBS then you shouldn't jog. Unfortunately, I did both. We didn't know any better back in the 80's. So now I mostly ride the bike in a non-aero position due to the damage.

I had back issues before squatting [degenerated disks, but didn't really know at the time], and I can't be sure if the bar made it worse. I do know, however, that stiff-leg deadlifting DID injure my back badly a few years ago. One sloppy rep, after hundreds and hundreds of pristine reps, is all it takes to wreck it!

I believe squats are safe for most people -- if they do them properly [flat back]. I also believe that nothing is tougher on your entire system, and that's why they work. That's also why I probably got sick every few months when I'd jack up the intensity.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Aztec
I believe squats are safe for most people -- if they do them properly [flat back].

I've been in and out of gyms since I began weight lifting at Hoffmeister's Gym in Indianapolis back in the mid-70's and I don't think the average Joe knows how to squat properly. Even the schooled powerlifter jeapardizes his career every day he does a squat or deadlift. As you said, after hundreds of perfect reps, it just took that one sloppy rep to cause injury. It's just not worth the risk.

In my case it wasn't a bad rep or set that caused the problem. I started noticing a dull pain but kept jogging and lifting for a couple more months until I had to quit (STUPID!). 10 years later it still hurts whenever I stand up or walk for more than about 15 minutes. I've seen three different doctors and have undergone physical therapy but they've all been pretty much useless. That's why I ride the bike. As long as I'm in a seated position, the pressure is off my back and the injured area doesn't hurt.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Doctor Morbius
I've been in and out of gyms since I began weight lifting at Hoffmeister's Gym in Indianapolis back in the mid-70's and I don't think the average Joe knows how to squat properly. Even the schooled powerlifter jeapardizes his career every day he does a squat or deadlift. As you said, after hundreds of perfect reps, it just took that one sloppy rep to cause injury. It's just not worth the risk.

In my case it wasn't a bad rep or set that caused the problem. I started noticing a dull pain but kept jogging and lifting for a couple more months until I had to quit (STUPID!). 10 years later it still hurts whenever I stand up or walk for more than about 15 minutes. I've seen three different doctors and have undergone physical therapy but they've all been pretty much useless. That's why I ride the bike. As long as I'm in a seated position, the pressure is off my back and the injured area doesn't hurt.

very odd ! Pain going away when you ride !
how's your bike set up ?
how much lower then the seat are the top of your handle bars ?
And
have you had an xray, do you know if there is damage or misplacement ?

I suffer from a loss of natural lordosis, I squat as therapy to easy my back pain and it works for my problem. I squat 80lb only and as a free bar only and for an extended time frame one 3 minute set. This combined with reverse abdominal. I have been doing this for a couple of years now, would get back pain after only short time on the bike, is completely fixed now.

My loss of natural lordosis was caused when I was young doing lots of stupid sit ups.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd
very odd ! Pain going away when you ride !
how's your bike set up ?
how much lower then the seat are the top of your handle bars ?
And
have you had an xray, do you know if there is damage or misplacement ?

I suffer from a loss of natural lordosis, I squat as therapy to easy my back pain and it works for my problem. I squat 80lb only and as a free bar only and for an extended time frame one 3 minute set. This combined with reverse abdominal. I have been doing this for a couple of years now, would get back pain after only short time on the bike, is completely fixed now.

My loss of natural lordosis was caused when I was young doing lots of stupid sit ups.

Interesting! You lost your back arch/curvature from situps? Never heard that one before.

I differ w/ the Doc above on squats, especially with super light weights like you suggest. That's not enough to cause compression. And so long as you keep the natural back arch (ooops, which you don't have!)...

My back aches from standing more for than a few minutes or walking for more than an hour. I have too much curvature, and have to focus on contracting my abs/standing straight. I do glute/ham raises, reverse hyperextensions and sometimes plain old hyperextension as strengtheners. I should do more abs.

Being seated definitely helps, and the bike doesn't bother it -- even the aero position, which I love. And Doc, thinking back to your aero position note earlier, you should be able to do it, too, because the true aero position isn't really any more bend at the waist.