Hemosiderin / iron / arthritis

And what exactly are we to make of this, how does it relate
to any body of theory, to what practical use is it, and
toward what goal can it be applied? Without this information
it is but another random abstract plucked from the web, one
among thousands of such.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Hemosiderin / iron / arthritis
From: [email hidden]
Date: 4/17/2004 3:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

And what exactly are we to make of this, how does it relate
to any body of theory, to what practical use is it, and
toward what goal can it be applied? Without this
information it is but another random abstract plucked from
the web, one among thousands of such.

I thought the explanation was adequate .. for this list ..

Obviously for YOU .. it isn't ..

Research shows .. hemosiderin IN .. the joint ..

Conclude what you will ..
----------------------------------------------------

This shows cleary hemosiderin deposits / iron deposits IN ..
arthritis .. induced either by trauma / injury or simple
bleeding into the joints ..

<<snip>> Hemosiderin was found in the synovial
membrane <<snip>>

Haemophilia. 2004 May;10(3):280-7. Related Articles, Links

Experimental haemophilic synovitis: rationale and
development of a murine model of human factor VIII
deficiency.

Valentino LA, Hakobyan N, Kazarian T, Jabbar KJ, Jabbar AA.

Departments of Pediatrics and Immunology/Microbiology, Rush
Children's Hospital and Rush University, Chicago, IL, USA.

Summary. Haemophilia is a genetic disease as a result of the
deficiency of blood coagulation factor VIII or IX. Bleeding
is common, especially into joints where an inflammatory,
proliferative synovitis develops resulting in a debilitating
arthritis, haemophilic arthropathy. The pathogenesis of blood-
induced haemophilic synovitis (HS) is poorly understood. The
gross, microscopic and ultrastructural changes that occur in
the synovial membrane following human and experimental
hemarthrosis have been described. Repeated episodes of
bleeding induce synoviocyte hypertrophy and hyperplasia, an
intense neovascular response and inflammation of the
synovial membrane. The component(s) in blood that initiates
these changes is(are) not known, although iron is often
proposed as one possibility. Here, we describe a novel
murine model of human haemophilia A, which facilitates the
examination of large number of animals and tissue specimens.
The effects of hemarthrosis on the physical, gross and
microscopic changes evoked following joint bleeding are
described. Controlled, blunt trauma to the knee joint
consistently resulted in joint swelling because of a
combination of bleeding and inflammation. Hemosiderin was
found in the synovial membrane. Similar to hemarthrosis in
human haemophilia, joint bleeding resulted in acute
morbidity evidenced by inactivity, weight loss and
immobility. With time the animals recovered. The model of
experimental murine HS described here has utility in the
study of the pathogenesis of HS. This is the first of a
series of articles, which will discuss the pathophysiology
and characterize the model, with comparison of his model to
others which have been published previously. It should
provide a useful model to test potential therapeutic
interventions.

PMID: 15086328 [PubMed - in process]

------------------------------------------------------------
--------------

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PEOPLE WALKING
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And what exactly are we to make of this, how does it relate
to any body of theory, to what practical use is it, and
toward what goal can it be applied? Without this information
it is but another random abstract plucked from the web, one
among thousands of such.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Hemosiderin / iron / arthritis
From: [email hidden]
Date: 4/17/2004 4:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

And what exactly are we to make of this, how does it relate
to any body of theory, to what practical use is it, and
toward what goal can it be applied? Without this
information it is but another random abstract plucked from
the web, one among thousands of such.

You want me to .. splain .. it .. to .. you ..

Is that .. right ..?

Even after you've been told aspirin is now hypothesized to
be an iron binder ..

Even after you've been told the number one drug to treat
arthritis IS .. an iron binder .. Indocin ..

Maybe I'll just let you hang ..

--------------------------------------------------------
I thought the explanation was adequate .. for this list ..

Obviously for YOU .. it isn't ..

Research shows .. hemosiderin IN .. the joint ..

Conclude what you will ..
----------------------------------------------------

This shows cleary hemosiderin deposits / iron deposits IN ..
arthritis .. induced either by trauma / injury or simple
bleeding into the joints ..

<<snip>> Hemosiderin was found in the synovial
membrane <<snip>>

Haemophilia. 2004 May;10(3):280-7. Related Articles, Links

Experimental haemophilic synovitis: rationale and
development of a murine model of human factor VIII
deficiency.

Valentino LA, Hakobyan N, Kazarian T, Jabbar KJ, Jabbar AA.

Departments of Pediatrics and Immunology/Microbiology, Rush
Children's Hospital and Rush University, Chicago, IL, USA.

Summary. Haemophilia is a genetic disease as a result of the
deficiency of blood coagulation factor VIII or IX. Bleeding
is common, especially into joints where an inflammatory,
proliferative synovitis develops resulting in a debilitating
arthritis, haemophilic arthropathy. The pathogenesis of blood-
induced haemophilic synovitis (HS) is poorly understood. The
gross, microscopic and ultrastructural changes that occur in
the synovial membrane following human and experimental
hemarthrosis have been described. Repeated episodes of
bleeding induce synoviocyte hypertrophy and hyperplasia, an
intense neovascular response and inflammation of the
synovial membrane. The component(s) in blood that initiates
these changes is(are) not known, although iron is often
proposed as one possibility. Here, we describe a novel
murine model of human haemophilia A, which facilitates the
examination of large number of animals and tissue specimens.
The effects of hemarthrosis on the physical, gross and
microscopic changes evoked following joint bleeding are
described. Controlled, blunt trauma to the knee joint
consistently resulted in joint swelling because of a
combination of bleeding and inflammation. Hemosiderin was
found in the synovial membrane. Similar to hemarthrosis in
human haemophilia, joint bleeding resulted in acute
morbidity evidenced by inactivity, weight loss and
immobility. With time the animals recovered. The model of
experimental murine HS described here has utility in the
study of the pathogenesis of HS. This is the first of a
series of articles, which will discuss the pathophysiology
and characterize the model, with comparison of his model to
others which have been published previously. It should
provide a useful model to test potential therapeutic
interventions.

PMID: 15086328 [PubMed - in process]

------------------------------------------------------------
--------------

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PEOPLE WALKING
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aspirin, why didn't you say so first.

In india iron stores are low, iron anemia is widespread,
because the majority diet is veggie alone. The exact same
region has the world's highest rate of diabetes, heart
disease, and other related diseases/disorders. In n. america
the diet is mixed, iron stores are fine nd anemia low, and
the rate of diabetes 1/2 that of india. What does this tell
us about the level of iron and this very high rate?

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Hemosiderin / iron / arthritis
From: [email hidden]
Date: 4/17/2004 5:51 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

aspirin, why didn't you say so first.

???

Quoted message said:

In india iron stores are low, iron anemia is widespread,
because the majority diet is veggie alone.

the thread is .. arthritis .. jrkff ..

Quoted message said:

The exact same region has the world's highest rate of
diabetes, heart disease, and other related
diseases/disorders.

I don't believe you ..

Quoted message said:

In n. america the diet is mixed, iron stores are fine nd
anemia low, and the rate of diabetes 1/2 that of india.

Diabetes .. ?

Diabetes .. ?

Quoted message said:

What does this tell us about the level of iron and this
very high rate?

Well since this is a thread .. hemosiderin / iron /
arthritis ..

Go 'wonder' .. somewhere .. fkg .. else ..
---------------------------------------------------------
You want me to .. splain .. it .. to .. you ..

Is that .. right ..?

Even after you've been told aspirin is now hypothesized to
be an iron binder ..

Even after you've been told the number one drug to treat
arthritis IS .. an iron binder .. Indocin ..

Maybe I'll just let you hang ..

--------------------------------------------------------
I thought the explanation was adequate .. for this list ..

Obviously for YOU .. it isn't ..

Research shows .. hemosiderin IN .. the joint ..

Conclude what you will ..
----------------------------------------------------

This shows cleary hemosiderin deposits / iron deposits IN ..
arthritis .. induced either by trauma / injury or simple
bleeding into the joints ..

<<snip>> Hemosiderin was found in the synovial
membrane <<snip>>

Haemophilia. 2004 May;10(3):280-7. Related Articles, Links

Experimental haemophilic synovitis: rationale and
development of a murine model of human factor VIII
deficiency.

Valentino LA, Hakobyan N, Kazarian T, Jabbar KJ, Jabbar AA.

Departments of Pediatrics and Immunology/Microbiology, Rush
Children's Hospital and Rush University, Chicago, IL, USA.

Summary. Haemophilia is a genetic disease as a result of the
deficiency of blood coagulation factor VIII or IX. Bleeding
is common, especially into joints where an inflammatory,
proliferative synovitis develops resulting in a debilitating
arthritis, haemophilic arthropathy. The pathogenesis of blood-
induced haemophilic synovitis (HS) is poorly understood. The
gross, microscopic and ultrastructural changes that occur in
the synovial membrane following human and experimental
hemarthrosis have been described. Repeated episodes of
bleeding induce synoviocyte hypertrophy and hyperplasia, an
intense neovascular response and inflammation of the
synovial membrane. The component(s) in blood that initiates
these changes is(are) not known, although iron is often
proposed as one possibility. Here, we describe a novel
murine model of human haemophilia A, which facilitates the
examination of large number of animals and tissue specimens.
The effects of hemarthrosis on the physical, gross and
microscopic changes evoked following joint bleeding are
described. Controlled, blunt trauma to the knee joint
consistently resulted in joint swelling because of a
combination of bleeding and inflammation. Hemosiderin was
found in the synovial membrane. Similar to hemarthrosis in
human haemophilia, joint bleeding resulted in acute
morbidity evidenced by inactivity, weight loss and
immobility. With time the animals recovered. The model of
experimental murine HS described here has utility in the
study of the pathogenesis of HS. This is the first of a
series of articles, which will discuss the pathophysiology
and characterize the model, with comparison of his model to
others which have been published previously. It should
provide a useful model to test potential therapeutic
interventions.

PMID: 15086328 [PubMed - in process]

------------------------------------------------------------
--------------

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pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗ DEAD
PEOPLE WALKING
pages.ivillage.comdeadpeoplewalkingOpen ↗

Aspirin, why didn't you say so in the first place?

Diabetes, obesity haunt slum-dwellers: Study

Times News Network Saturday, April 10, 2004

Indraprasth - There was a time when diabetes mellitus and
obesity were regarded as lifestyle diseases of the rich.
But a study among slum-dwellers by AIIMS has shattered
that myth.

The three-year-long study is a part of a larger study on
migrant Indian populations the world over. It deals with
inter and intra-country migration and nearly 550 slum-
dwellers who had migrated to Delhi from Haryana, UP and
Rajasthan, were surveyed for signs of diabetes mellitus,
obesity and high blood cholesterol levels.

10% of the surveyed population had diabetes, 11% was
suffering from hypertension, more than 25% had excess body
fat and 27% had high levels of cholesterol.

Dr Anoop Misra, professor of medicine, AIIMS, said: "The
findings were startling because all of them had migrated to
the city from villages where the incidence of all these
diseases has been found to be less than one per cent."

More than 90% had no idea about diabetes or the risk factors
associated with obesity. "Awareness about non- communicable
diseases is really low, so basic precautions too are
routinely bypassed," Misra added.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Hemosiderin / iron / arthritis

----------------------------------------------------

This shows cleary hemosiderin deposits / iron deposits IN ..
arthritis .. induced either by trauma / injury or simple
bleeding into the joints ..

<<snip>> Hemosiderin was found in the synovial
membrane <<snip>>

Haemophilia. 2004 May;10(3):280-7. Related Articles, Links

Experimental haemophilic synovitis: rationale and
development of a murine model of human factor VIII
deficiency.

Valentino LA, Hakobyan N, Kazarian T, Jabbar KJ, Jabbar AA.

Departments of Pediatrics and Immunology/Microbiology, Rush
Children's Hospital and Rush University, Chicago, IL, USA.

Summary. Haemophilia is a genetic disease as a result of the
deficiency of blood coagulation factor VIII or IX. Bleeding
is common, especially into joints where an inflammatory,
proliferative synovitis develops resulting in a debilitating
arthritis, haemophilic arthropathy. The pathogenesis of blood-
induced haemophilic synovitis (HS) is poorly understood. The
gross, microscopic and ultrastructural changes that occur in
the synovial membrane following human and experimental
hemarthrosis have been described. Repeated episodes of
bleeding induce synoviocyte hypertrophy and hyperplasia, an
intense neovascular response and inflammation of the
synovial membrane. The component(s) in blood that initiates
these changes is(are) not known, although iron is often
proposed as one possibility. Here, we describe a novel
murine model of human haemophilia A, which facilitates the
examination of large number of animals and tissue specimens.
The effects of hemarthrosis on the physical, gross and
microscopic changes evoked following joint bleeding are
described. Controlled, blunt trauma to the knee joint
consistently resulted in joint swelling because of a
combination of bleeding and inflammation. Hemosiderin was
found in the synovial membrane. Similar to hemarthrosis in
human haemophilia, joint bleeding resulted in acute
morbidity evidenced by inactivity, weight loss and
immobility. With time the animals recovered. The model of
experimental murine HS described here has utility in the
study of the pathogenesis of HS. This is the first of a
series of articles, which will discuss the pathophysiology
and characterize the model, with comparison of his model to
others which have been published previously. It should
provide a useful model to test potential therapeutic
interventions.

PMID: 15086328 [PubMed - in process]

------------------------------------------------------------
--------------

Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗ DEAD
PEOPLE WALKING
pages.ivillage.comdeadpeoplewalkingOpen ↗

Some forms of arthritis go along with a lower then normal
level of iron, one study showed people with it consumed less
iron then a control group. Aspirin, why didn't you say so in
the first place?

Quoted message said:

Diabetes, obesity haunt slum-dwellers: Study

Times News Network Saturday, April 10, 2004

Indraprasth - There was a time when diabetes mellitus and
obesity were regarded as lifestyle diseases of the rich.
But a study among slum-dwellers by AIIMS has shattered
that myth.

The three-year-long study is a part of a larger study on
migrant Indian populations the world over. It deals with
inter and intra-country migration and nearly 550 slum-
dwellers who had migrated to Delhi from Haryana, UP and
Rajasthan, were surveyed for signs of diabetes mellitus,
obesity and high blood cholesterol levels.

10% of the surveyed population had diabetes, 11% was
suffering from hypertension, more than 25% had excess body
fat and 27% had high levels of cholesterol.

Dr Anoop Misra, professor of medicine, AIIMS, said: "The
findings were startling because all of them had migrated to
the city from villages where the incidence of all these
diseases has been found to be less than one per cent."

More than 90% had no idea about diabetes or the risk
factors associated with obesity. "Awareness about non-
communicable diseases is really low, so basic precautions
too are routinely bypassed," Misra added.

Well seeing that over forty percent of these .. patients ..
would be recommended to be .. iron .. REFKGDUCED .. I guess
there would be a good chance of these people having / being
/ presenting .. with .. elevated iron levels ..

<<snip>> prevalence among type II diabetic patients is
around 40% <<snip>>

Eh ..

According to .. statistics ..

-----------------------------------------
The article states that among type II insulin-resistant
diabetic patients, 40% have elevated ferritin and should be
considered for phlebotomy therapy.
------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
------------------------------------------

Diabetes Metab 2002 Sep;28(4 Pt 1):335-9

[Do the insulin resistance associated hepatic iron overload
must be researched during diabetes mellitus type II?]
[Article in French]

Roblin X, Chevassus P, Boudemaghe T, Palayodan A Departement
de Medecine Interne et Hepato-gastro-enterologie, Centre
hospitalier de Gap, 05007 Gap Cedex.

[Medline record in process]

The insulin resistance-associated hepatic iron overload is
the first aetiology of iron overload disorders in France. If
we do not know its mechanism, the prevalence among type II
diabetic patients is around 40%. Hyperferritinaemia is
present in all cases, but is not specific of the diagnosis.
This pathology features liver fibrosis among 10% of the
patients and some cases of primary liver cancer have been
described. Moreover, a large body of evidence favors the
direct involvement of iron in the development of extra
hepatic neoplasia, while therapeutic phlebotomy to maintain
low to normal body iron stores can prevent all known
complications of insulin resistance-associated hepatic iron
overload. In addition, treatment of type II diabetes
mellitus and other features of insulin resistance syndrome
is essential. In conclusion, it is important to detect this
syndrome during type II diabetes mellitus.

PMID: 12442073, UI: 22328961

Who loves ya. Tom

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Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Hemosiderin / iron / arthritis
From: [email hidden]
Date: 4/17/2004 6:52 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Some forms of arthritis go along with a lower then normal
level of iron, one study showed people with it consumed
less iron then a control group.

Who gives a rat's ass what you .. say ..

You have no credibility ..
------------------------------------------------------------
-

This shows cleary hemosiderin deposits / iron deposits IN ..
arthritis .. induced either by trauma / injury or simple
bleeding into the joints ..

<<snip>> Hemosiderin was found in the synovial
membrane <<snip>>

Haemophilia. 2004 May;10(3):280-7. Related Articles, Links

Experimental haemophilic synovitis: rationale and
development of a murine model of human factor VIII
deficiency.

Valentino LA, Hakobyan N, Kazarian T, Jabbar KJ, Jabbar AA.

Departments of Pediatrics and Immunology/Microbiology, Rush
Children's Hospital and Rush University, Chicago, IL, USA.

Summary. Haemophilia is a genetic disease as a result of the
deficiency of blood coagulation factor VIII or IX. Bleeding
is common, especially into joints where an inflammatory,
proliferative synovitis develops resulting in a debilitating
arthritis, haemophilic arthropathy. The pathogenesis of blood-
induced haemophilic synovitis (HS) is poorly understood. The
gross, microscopic and ultrastructural changes that occur in
the synovial membrane following human and experimental
hemarthrosis have been described. Repeated episodes of
bleeding induce synoviocyte hypertrophy and hyperplasia, an
intense neovascular response and inflammation of the
synovial membrane. The component(s) in blood that initiates
these changes is(are) not known, although iron is often
proposed as one possibility. Here, we describe a novel
murine model of human haemophilia A, which facilitates the
examination of large number of animals and tissue specimens.
The effects of hemarthrosis on the physical, gross and
microscopic changes evoked following joint bleeding are
described. Controlled, blunt trauma to the knee joint
consistently resulted in joint swelling because of a
combination of bleeding and inflammation. Hemosiderin was
found in the synovial membrane. Similar to hemarthrosis in
human haemophilia, joint bleeding resulted in acute
morbidity evidenced by inactivity, weight loss and
immobility. With time the animals recovered. The model of
experimental murine HS described here has utility in the
study of the pathogenesis of HS. This is the first of a
series of articles, which will discuss the pathophysiology
and characterize the model, with comparison of his model to
others which have been published previously. It should
provide a useful model to test potential therapeutic
interventions.

PMID: 15086328 [PubMed - in process]

------------------------------------------------------------
--------------

Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗ DEAD
PEOPLE WALKING
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Tom, a study shows the rate of bloodletting and the onset of
diabetes has no significant correlation. India has low iron,
india has world's highest diabetes and associated heart
disease etc. rate, india is a majority veggie only culture.
Veggie only folk in s. india have more heart disease then n.
india people who eat meat and thus have normally higher iron
levels. N. america has a mixed diet, higher iron, 1/2 the
diabetes of india. Taking all these factors as a whole, what
can we assume about iron level, diet, and diabetes and
associeated disease?

Does the damaged joint store iron or is the joint damage
caused by iron, the latter seems to be supported not at all
and the former is described. A disorder causes blood,
containing iron, to seep into joints, therefore... Aspirin,
why didn't you say so in the first place?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some forms of arthritis go along with a lower then normal
level of iron, one study showed people with it consumed
less iron then a control group.

Who gives a rat's ass what you .. say ..

You have no credibility ..
-----------------------------------------------------------
--

This shows cleary hemosiderin deposits / iron deposits IN
.. arthritis .. induced either by trauma / injury or simple
bleeding into the joints ..

<<snip>> Hemosiderin was found in the synovial
membrane <<snip>>

Haemophilia. 2004 May;10(3):280-7. Related Articles, Links

Experimental haemophilic synovitis: rationale and
development of a murine model of human factor VIII
deficiency.

Valentino LA, Hakobyan N, Kazarian T, Jabbar KJ, Jabbar AA.

Departments of Pediatrics and Immunology/Microbiology, Rush
Children's Hospital and Rush University, Chicago, IL, USA.

Summary. Haemophilia is a genetic disease as a result of
the deficiency of blood coagulation factor VIII or IX.
Bleeding is common, especially into joints where an
inflammatory, proliferative synovitis develops resulting in
a debilitating arthritis, haemophilic arthropathy. The
pathogenesis of blood-induced haemophilic synovitis (HS) is
poorly understood. The gross, microscopic and
ultrastructural changes that occur in the synovial membrane
following human and experimental hemarthrosis have been
described. Repeated episodes of bleeding induce synoviocyte
hypertrophy and hyperplasia, an intense neovascular
response and inflammation of the synovial membrane. The
component(s) in blood that initiates these changes is(are)
not known, although iron is often proposed as one
possibility. Here, we describe a novel murine model of
human haemophilia A, which facilitates the examination of
large number of animals and tissue specimens. The effects
of hemarthrosis on the physical, gross and microscopic
changes evoked following joint bleeding are described.
Controlled, blunt trauma to the knee joint consistently
resulted in joint swelling because of a combination of
bleeding and inflammation. Hemosiderin was found in the
synovial membrane. Similar to hemarthrosis in human
haemophilia, joint bleeding resulted in acute morbidity
evidenced by inactivity, weight loss and immobility. With
time the animals recovered. The model of experimental
murine HS described here has utility in the study of the
pathogenesis of HS. This is the first of a series of
articles, which will discuss the pathophysiology and
characterize the model, with comparison of his model to
others which have been published previously. It should
provide a useful model to test potential therapeutic
interventions.

PMID: 15086328 [PubMed - in process]

-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------

Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
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pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗ DEAD
PEOPLE WALKING
pages.ivillage.comdeadpeoplewalkingOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Diabetes / iron / elevated iron levels / iron reduction
From: [email hidden]
Date: 4/17/2004 7:35 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Tom, a study shows the rate of bloodletting and the onset
of diabetes has no significant correlation.

Oh .. yeah .. for .. sure .. Another one of your ..
studies ..

Quoted message said:

India has low iron, india has world's highest diabetes and
associated heart disease etc. rate, india is a majority
veggie only culture. Veggie only folk in s. india have
more heart disease then n. india people who eat meat and
thus have normally higher iron levels. N. america has a
mixed diet, higher iron, 1/2 the diabetes of india. Taking
all these factors as a whole, what can we assume about
iron level, diet, and diabetes and associeated disease?

If this was so apparent .. I would have read OTHER than your
.. comments ..

So .. I must assume ..

You .. are .. full .. of .. [censored] ..

<<snip>> The fact that mortality and morbidity from
coronary artery disease is lower in vegetarians than in
non-vegetarians has also been confirmed at the Bombay
Hospital <<snip>>

bhj.orgchap2.htmOpen ↗

Who loves ya. Tom

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Is it just me or does anyone else think that doe and Mark
and whomever else ramble in these arguments actually all
come from the same person who is likely struggling with a
schizophrenia type illness. Hope he seeks help. Hint: Its
not the Fe - and antioxidants alone will not control it.

Chuck

Yes, a poll shows we all agree.

Quoted message said:

Is it just me or does anyone else think that doe and Mark
and whomever else ramble in these arguments actually all
come from the same person who is likely struggling with a
schizophrenia type illness. Hope he seeks help. Hint: Its
not the Fe - and antioxidants alone will not control it.

Chuck

Tom, your thesis has been taken apart bit by "cut and
pasted" bit and evidence shown contradicting it at every
point. So many years have you toiled to come to this end,
sorry to have been one part of the crumbling of the sand
castle, of the folding of the house of cards, of the
disillusioned of a fondly held castle in the sky. You had a
thesis, it was compared with reality, it failed to be
supported; welcome to the real world of real science and
it's proper application. May we have the next notion please
and will someone please clean up this mess.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Diabetes / iron / elevated iron levels / iron reduction
From: [email hidden]
Date: 4/17/2004 7:35 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Veggie only folk in s. india have more heart disease then
n. india people who eat meat and thus have normally higher
iron levels.

This statement above is a blatant .. lie ..

Markd has attempted this .. route .. in many different
.. posts ..

Am I the ONLY one who finds this type of action ..
offensive .. ?

What IS this list all about if we allow such actions to go
.. unchecked ..

Either BE ABLE to supply a cite .. or a fair explanation as
to WHY you cannot supply a .. cite .. or .. simply ..

S .. T .. F .. U ..

IMHO ..

But what I've seen over the years .. OF .. the members of
this list ..

It seems to be of no concern to anyone ..

Heh .. heh ..

Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Apr;79(4):582-92. Related
Articles, Links

Diet and risk of ischemic heart disease in India.

Rastogi T, Reddy KS, Vaz M, Spiegelman D, Prabhakaran D,
Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Ascherio A.

Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health,
Boston, USA. [email hidden]

BACKGROUND: Ischemic heart disease (IHD) is a leading cause
of death in India. Dietary changes could reduce risk, but
few studies have addressed the association between diet and
IHD risk in India. OBJECTIVE: The goal was to address the
association between diet and IHD risk among Indians in New
Delhi (northern India) and Bangalore (southern India).
DESIGN: We collected data from 350 cases of acute myocardial
infarction and 700 controls matched on the basis

hospitals. Long-term dietary intake was assessed by using
food-frequency questionnaires developed for New Delhi and
Bangalore. We used conditional logistic regression to
control for the matching factors and other predictors of
risk. RESULTS: We observed a significant and dose-
dependent inverse association between vegetable intake and
IHD risk. The inverse association was stronger for green
leafy vegetables; in multivariate analysis, persons
consuming a median of
3.5 servings/wk had a 67% lower relative risk (RR: 0.33; 95%
CI: 0.17, 0.64; P for trend = 0.0001) than did those
consuming 0.5 servings/wk. Controlling for other dietary
covariates did not alter the association. Cereal intake
was also associated with a lower risk. Use of mustard oil,
which is rich in alpha-linolenic acid, was associated with
a lower risk than was use of sunflower oil [for use in
cooking: RR: 0.49 (95% CI: 0.24, 0.99); for use in frying,
RR: 0.29 (95% CI: 0.13, 0.64)]. CONCLUSION: Diets rich in
vegetables and use of mustard oil could contribute to the
lower risk of IHD among Indians.

PMID: 15051601 [PubMed - in process]

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Who loves ya. Tom

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Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Hemosiderin / iron / arthritis
From: [email hidden] (ChuckMSRD)
Date: 4/18/2004 5:34 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Is it just me or does anyone else think that doe and Mark
and whomever else ramble in these arguments actually all
come from the same person who is likely struggling with a
schizophrenia type illness. Hope he seeks help. Hint: Its
not the Fe - and antioxidants alone will not control it.

Chuck

This is .. chuck ..

Chuck started out on the MS .. list ..

Chuck .. admitted to stalking and attempting to abuse .. and
kicked himself for
it ..

Now chuck has a new .. name ..

But chuck STILL has .. MS ..

Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
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