A Travesty

in article [email hidden], Brian Laffatme
at [email hidden] wrote on 4/11/04 2:51 PM:

Quoted message said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race
while USPS, USAC, Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are
still active.

Tyler Hamilton won Liège-Bastogne-Liège last year, thou king
amongst dumbasses. Also, Armstrong himself won San Sebastian-
San Sebastian.

Quoted message said:

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team.
He would have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he
were on any other squad. The focus on Lance Armstrong has
ruined the career of every single rider who has passed
through that system with the exception of Armstrong
himself.

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have
done so without being on USPS first.

Quoted message said:

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends
its corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end of
this year.

I hotly disagree, because it means there will be no more
American Div. I teams. There is also only one Div. II
team - Navigators - which, IIRC, is not very high up in
the UCI standings and is unlikely to get a chance to move
into Div. I.

-Sonarrat.

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race
while USPS, USAC, Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are
still active.

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team.
He would have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he
were on any other squad. The focus on Lance Armstrong has
ruined the career of every single rider who has passed
through that system with the exception of Armstrong
himself.

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends
its corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end of
this year.

tata,

Brian Lafferty

There's little in life that's more pitiful than bad parody.
Sonarrat has clearly pointed out why your parody is so awful
that it's at the point of becoming funny for a totally
different reason. ;-)

and what does "tata" mean anyway? Is it about "tatas" ? Or
about India's Tata Coffee? Or some sort of non-homophobic
FAQ signaling ?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Oqke-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race while
USPS, USAC, Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are still
active.

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that
team. He would have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by
now if he were on any other squad. The focus on Lance
Armstrong has ruined the career of every single rider
who has passed through that system with the exception of
Armstrong himself.

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS
ends its corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end
of this year.

tata,

Brian Lafferty

There's little in life that's more pitiful than bad
parody. Sonarrat has clearly pointed out why your parody
is so awful that it's at the point of becoming funny for a
totally different reason. ;-)

[email hidden] (Brian Laffatme) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race
while USPS, USAC, Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are
still active.

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team.
He would have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he
were on any other squad. The focus on Lance Armstrong has
ruined the career of every single rider who has passed
through that system with the exception of Armstrong
himself.

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends
its corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end of
this year.

tata,

Brian Lafferty

Could be that George stays on the team because he's a friend
of Armstrong, is paid well, and there's no disillusion as to
what the main goal of the USPS cycling team is. Winning the
Tour de France, at least since 1999. Hincapie I'm sure could
win more races with more support, but I'm also sure he
hasn't minded being part of 5 winning Tour de France teams.
And being partly responsible for those wins has to have some
sort of satisfaction. And there is no way he would have had
3 or 4 victories in Paris-Roubaix were he on some other
team. He'd be the American lackey carrying water bottles for
someone else instead of being the team leader for the
Classics. Get over it, George likes it where he is.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Brian Laffatme
No American rider will ever win a World Cup race while USPS,
USAC, Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are still active.

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team.
He would have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he
were on any other squad. The focus on Lance Armstrong has
ruined the career of every single rider who has passed
through that system with the exception of Armstrong himself.

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends
its corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end of
this year.

tata,

Brian Lafferty

I haven't posted in months, but this is one of the dumbest posts yet. First, what indication do you have that Hincape is a better rider than Museuw, PVP, Boonen, Bettini or anyone else that wins classics. I don't think he is. He needs to prove himself. Second, Clearly 2 or 3 years ago postal was not supporting him. Wait actually he was in perfect position with good support from Tom Boonen, but then George fell off the road. Of course blame USPS. Third, how could team support have helped George today. He made a move, which then got caught and then as he said he had nothing left. I don't think the team had anything to do with it. Furthermore, I think that everyone who did well in todays race really did it because of their own skill, condtioning and luck not because of major team support.

On 11 Apr 2004 21:04:06 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Arsenault)

Quoted message said:

He'd be the American lackey carrying water bottles for
someone else instead of being the team leader for the
Classics.

Right, like Hammond had to do all the domestigue work at Mr.
Bookmaker Sunday (and at G-W too) since he's not Belgian.

JT

lazysegall said:

Quoted message said:

I haven't posted in months, but this is one of the dumbest
posts yet.

this is me, reading this and similar replies
home.comcast.netouch.gifOpen ↗

brian, do something to make it stop...

heather

"h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

lazysegall said:

Quoted message said:

I haven't posted in months, but this is one of the
dumbest posts yet.

this is me, reading this and similar replies
home.comcast.netouch.gifOpen ↗

brian, do something to make it stop...

heather

There just isn't much to be done about parody impaired
posters.

Sonarrat said:

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have
done so without being on USPS first.

There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

B. Lafferty said:

There just isn't much to be done about parody impaired
posters.

yeah, well, i should shut up about it anyway. the whole
thing is fairly humorous, why do i ask for more?

heather

"h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

There just isn't much to be done about parody impaired
posters.

yeah, well, i should shut up about it anyway. the whole
thing is fairly humorous, why do i ask for more?

Why? Because you deserve better. Don't we all?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kyle Legate said:

Sonarrat said:

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have
done so without being on USPS first.

There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

First, because of Johan Bruyneel's skill as a DS, and
second, more importantly, because the team represented the
cream of the American crop and gave them important exposure
in major European races. Perhaps I'm just showing my
inexperience in this area, but I can't find evidence of any
other team doing so for the period after Motorola stopped.

-Sonarrat.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Kyle Legate said:

Sonarrat said:

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could
have done so without being on USPS first.

There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

First, because of Johan Bruyneel's skill as a DS, and
second, more importantly, because the team represented the
cream of the American crop and gave them important
exposure in major European races. Perhaps I'm just showing
my inexperience in this area, but I can't find evidence of
any other team doing so for the period after Motorola
stopped.

-Sonarrat.

Julich has managed to have success without being on USPS.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Carl Sundquist said:

Julich has managed to have success without being on USPS.

I'm sorry, I'm just confusing the issue. Let me start
over... so I can better explain my understanding of
Americans in the pro peloton (excluding those still on
USPS). I'll start with the facts, so that I don't get too
carried away.

Bobby Julich and Lance Armstrong have several things in
common: they were both riding for Motorola in 1996, they
both signed with Cofidis for the 1997 season. Armstrong's
story does not need repeating, but Julich stayed with
Cofidis and established himself as a man for the Grand
Tours. Already with a 9th place in the Vuelta, he took 17th
and then 3rd in Le Tour in '97 and '98. Then he had two
rather fruitless years with Credit Agricole, then two
disastrous years with Telekom before signing for CSC-Tiscali
for the 2004 season, which has, so far, been very promising.

Levi Leipheimer was a Saturn rider, then signed with USPS
for 2000. His development within the mere two years he spent
with the team was incredible; I believe this is because he
raced in races he never could have been in with Saturn, such
as the Vuelta a España, where he had a podium finish in
2001. His 2002 season was a success, with an 8th place in
the TdF, but in 2003, he crashed in the first road stage of
the Tour and his season was ruined. This year already
promises to be better.

Tyler Hamilton was a founding member of the USPS team in
1996. He showed a flash of brilliance in finishing 2nd in an
ITT stage of the '98 Tour, then won an ITT stage the
following year, the first year that Lance won. He could have
joined any of a number of other teams at this point, but he
stuck it out with USPS until the end of 2001, the same time
Leipheimer defected. He went to CSC-Tiscali, where his years
of experience on USPS paid off with a 2nd place in the Giro,
a 4th place in the TdF, a WC win and a 2.HC stage race win.
I think that the strength he showed in dealing with a broken
shoulder in the Giro and a broken collarbone in the TdF
signified a tenacity that developed in him gradually during
his stint as a Postie domestique - purely my opinion. Now
with the Phonak team, he looks OK so far.

Christian Vandevelde has been a USPS workhorse since 1998.
He crashed out of the 2001 Tour, and was snubbed for Tour
selection at least for 2003. For 2004, he is now at Heras'
side with Manolo Saiz' new Liberty Seguros team. Revenge?
Devotion to Heras? I don't know.

Fred Rodriguez, sprinter, started on Saturn, then signed
with Mapei in 1999. After a rather good 2000 season, he
signed with Domo; 2002 was marked by two 2nd places in major
classics. His 2003 season with Vini Caldirola was just off
of the level set by 2002, and his 2004 season with Acqua &
Sapone has not gotten off the ground yet.

Tom Danielson joined Fassa Bortolo after making a reputation
as the top pure climber in the US, and after winning the
Tour de Langkawi. If he is indeed going to the Giro d'Italia
this year, he should be interesting to watch.

Tim Johnson signed with new Spanish team Saunier Duval-
Prodir this year after a successful 2003 season with Saturn,
which terminated its sponsorship afterwards.

==

Looking at this, I see too many unique cases to make the
sweeping generalizations I made earlier in this thread...
what I do notice is that Americans are entering the European
peloton at a healthy rate right now, and there have been a
lot of moves this year...

-Sonarrat.

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news

Quoted message said:

Looking at this, I see too many unique cases to make the
sweeping generalizations I made earlier in this thread...
what I do notice is that Americans are entering the
European peloton at a healthy rate right now, and there
have been a lot of moves this year...

-Sonarrat.

Don't forget Clinger.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:107p6qs4oost21
@corp.supernews.com:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat wrote:
>
> None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could
> have done so without being on USPS first.

Julich has managed to have success without being on USPS.

heh. Ok, we can assume that Sonarrat is excluding success
that might be attributed to, um, extra medication while
Bobby rode for Cofidis.

NS

[email hidden] (jim gravity) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news

Quoted message said:

Looking at this, I see too many unique cases to make the
sweeping generalizations I made earlier in this
thread... what I do notice is that Americans are
entering the European peloton at a healthy rate right
now, and there have been a lot of moves this year...

-Sonarrat.

Don't forget Clinger.

You're absolutely right... trap-friis.dk overlooked him.
I'll email Lars...

-Sonarrat.

Sonarrat said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Kyle Legate said:

Sonarrat said:

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have
done so without being on USPS first.

There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

First, because of Johan Bruyneel's skill as a DS,

The posties who left Postal became successful when they did
not have Bruyneel as a DS any longer.

Quoted message said:

and second, more importantly, because the team represented
the cream of the American crop and gave them important
exposure in major European races.

I guess the Aussies are still waiting for an Australian-
based team to help them make it big in Europe, then.

"Kyle Legate" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Kyle Legate said:

Sonarrat wrote:
>
> None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could
> have done so without being on USPS first.
>
There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

First, because of Johan Bruyneel's skill as a DS,

The posties who left Postal became successful when they
did not have Bruyneel as a DS any longer.

But they got hired away as "promotions" to be team leaders.
The argument can be made that Bruyneel's skill was in
identifying and developing their talent. Remember too that
Livingston was supposed to be "the man" for the Linda
McCartney team. And I'll bet Landis the next one to get
poached. But without Postal, a lot of these guys could be
riding for Jelly Belly.

Sheesh! Where's Henry? He [censored] all over you with the same
arguments he made on this topic sometime within the past
year, dumbass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and second, more importantly, because the team
represented the cream of the American crop and gave them
important exposure in major European races.

I guess the Aussies are still waiting for an Australian-
based team to help them make it big in Europe, then.

If there was an Aussie team similar to USPS, perhaps there
would be double the number of prominent Aussies in the Euro
peloton. Until we get something like a Foster's Lager
presented by Kangaroo Floors team, we really won't know.

NS