Almost a new beginner

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders actually
regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot for riding
around on the city streets, even with hills.

The answer depends on your local topography. Here in Palo
Alto, the 7 speeds on my cheap bike are fine for commuting.
I only shift into the lowest gear when I'm ascending within
a steep tunnel (California Avenue bike tunnel) or one of the
few hills (Page Mill Rd when I'm tired or out of shape). But
I bet those who bike in San Francisco want more. I certainly
use all 27 speeds on my road bike when I'm out on an
intentionally challenging ride.
--
"I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame
it on you."

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders actually
regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot for riding
around on the city streets, even with hills.

I bought a 3-chainring, 8-sprocket cassette (for 24 gears)
Trek comfort bike two years ago. I ride almost exclusively
in the 2nd range, mainly using sprockets 2-8. Only on steep
uphills will I go into 1st range, and only on steep or long
downhills will I go into 3rd range. So maybe once a ride
I'll move out of 2nd range, on average.

So most of my gear combinations go unused. But I sure do use
all the rear sprockets, so I can keep my exertion level
about the same throughout the ride. I wouldn't want to go to
a cassette with less than seven sprockets, that's for sure.
To me, for recreational riding, the most important thing is
to have a wide range of ratios available, not the number of
ratios available.

--
Craig Holl
Mechanical Engineer; New Berlin, WI
midwestroads.combikeOpen ↗
*remove all numbers and caps to reply*

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders actually
regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot for riding
around on the city streets, even with hills.

It's not the number of gears, but the RANGE of gears that is
the issue. The more range you have from hight to low, the
better off you can be. It depends you YOUR needs.

Quoted message said:

I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start riding,
but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices. My one and only
bike from the 60's was a single speed Schwinn, and right
now I'm riding a single speed AMF Road master I inherited
from my father.

My first question, after having looked and talked to bikers
and bike shops for the last three weeks:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders actually
regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot for riding
around on the city streets, even with hills.

When it comes to lots of gears, think about the range, not
the number of choices. Easy for the most extreme hills
that you will encounter, hardest for the downhills, and a
few in between.

When I was in high school, ten speeds were the standard.
And with that, I had it set up so that almost all riding
was in 6 gears. These days, I have bikes with 16, 18, and
27 choices. And guess how many I really use? 6. The overall
range is not much different, and I don't like changing
gears every 18 seconds to deal with every subtle change in
the terrain.

Just because they are on the bike doesn't mean that you have
to use them. Some days I do my commute without changing
gears at all.

Looking at new bikes these days, the thing to realize is
that quality bikes will be working with 9 speeds in back (18
or 27 total), and some 8 speeds (16 or 24 total)(10 also
exists). If it is new and has less than 8, you can be pretty
certain that it is not a quality bike.

You can also avoid all this mess and buy a quality single
speed! They are back in style, for their simplicity and
pleasure without all that [censored] to break and go out of
adjustment.

sheldonbrown.comsinglespeed.htmlOpen ↗

Like this one would get you lots of envious looks-

bianchiusa.comsass.htmlOpen ↗

Or-

konaworld.comkw index.cfmOpen ↗

There are others out there. And turning a bike into a
single speed is pretty easy. A local bike shop could help
you put one together for much less than the models above.
Count the teeth on your AMF gears and have a bike shop set
you up with the same gearing, only fifteen pounds lighter
and better brakes 🙂

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:55 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

< <I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start
<riding, but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices. <My one
and only bike from the 60's was a single <speed Schwinn, and
right now I'm riding <a single speed AMF Road master I
inherited <from my father.

<My first question, after having looked and talked <to
bikers and bike shops for the last three weeks:

<How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders <actually
regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like <a lot for riding
around on the city streets, even with <hills.

You sound like you're looking at triple front chainrings. I
ride a double, 18 gears of which I use about 11. When I ride
triples I shift more. You ride a single speed and if it's
suitable to the terrain you're doing now, you might not need
a triple but that's where the best pricepoints are so just
don't shift there should you get one.

The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a cassette.
Freewheels are more difficult to swap out than cassettes.
Freewheels also place more stress on the rear axle, so if
you're heavy[er], the casette system makes a better choice
for you. All in all, lots of variables but the key is to get
a bike that fit.

Craig Holl said:

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot
for riding around on the city streets, even with hills.

I bought a 3-chainring, 8-sprocket cassette (for 24 gears)
Trek comfort bike two years ago. I ride almost exclusively
in the 2nd range, mainly using sprockets 2-8. Only on
steep uphills will I go into 1st range, and only on steep
or long downhills will I go into 3rd range. So maybe once
a ride I'll move out of 2nd range, on average.

So most of my gear combinations go unused. But I sure do
use all the rear sprockets, so I can keep my exertion
level about the same throughout the ride. I wouldn't want
to go to a cassette with less than seven sprockets, that's
for sure. To me, for recreational riding, the most
important thing is to have a wide range of ratios
available, not the number of ratios available.

Ah, then I wonder, can you pick the gears you want, or
are they sold as sets? Like I mentioned, I haven't gotten
down to specifics yet, there is so much to learn these
days... <g>

I've been thinking of perhaps riding to work a couple days a
week, with some recreational riding on the weekends.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

sittingduck said:

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot
for riding around on the city streets, even with hills.

It's not the number of gears, but the RANGE of gears that
is the issue. The more range you have from hight to low,
the better off you can be. It depends you YOUR needs.

Well, so far, my needs aren't yet. <g> I may be riding to
work a few days a week, with some recreational riding on
weekends. Unfortunately, it's almost all downhill to work,
so the ride back home after work will be a pretty good
workout, as it's about 600-700 ft difference in elevation
in 12 miles.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

William Holiday said:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:55 GMT,
[email hidden] wrote:

<How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
<actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like <a lot
for riding around on the city streets, even with <hills.

You sound like you're looking at triple front chainrings.
I ride a double, 18 gears of which I use about 11. When I
ride triples I shift more. You ride a single speed and if
it's suitable to the terrain you're doing now, you might
not need a triple but that's where the best pricepoints
are so just don't shift there should you get one.

It seems like there is an over abundance of triples out
there, and all the new bike sales shops push them. I'm
trying to look at as many as I can, and haven't completely
ruled out a single, although the hills around here make me
think that's not going to be a viable option. <g> For just
getting ready to ride with relatively short hops of 2-6
miles r/t, I can avoid most of the hills, but for longer
rides, no.

I do like the KISS principle though, so if a triple, or even
a double isn't really necessary, I'd look for less. <g>

Quoted message said:

The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a
cassette. Freewheels are more difficult to swap out than
cassettes. Freewheels also place more stress on the rear
axle, so if you're heavy[er], the casette system makes a
better choice for you. All in all, lots of variables but
the key is to get a bike that fit.

Ah, ok, I don't yet know the difference between a freewheel
and a cassette. Hasn't come up in conversation with the bike
experts at the 6 bike shops I've been to so far... Something
else to learn... <g>

And being heavier, that's a good thing to know/learn. I'm
looking at about 22 miles r/t for work.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:27:03 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

<William Holiday wrote: < <> On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:55
GMT, [email hidden] wrote: <> <> <How many of those
mulit-speed gears do you riders <> <actually regularly use?
21 to 28 speeds seems like <> <a lot for riding around on
the city streets, even with <> <hills. <> <> You sound like
you're looking at triple front chainrings. I ride a double,
18 <> gears of which I use about 11. When I ride triples I
shift more. You ride a <> single speed and if it's suitable
to the terrain you're doing now, you might not <> need a
triple but that's where the best pricepoints are so just
don't shift <> there should you get one. < <It seems like
there is an over abundance of triples out there, and all the
<new bike sales shops push them. I'm trying to look at as
many as I can, <and haven't completely ruled out a single,
although the hills around here <make me think that's not
going to be a viable option. <g> For just <getting ready to
ride with relatively short hops of 2-6 miles r/t, I can
avoid <most of the hills, but for longer rides, no.

Hills to cyclists are midnight lights to moths. And there's
a good reason why there are so many triples out there, it
provides a wide[r] range of usability, a good general
purpose tool, pretty much what you need at this time.

<I do like the KISS principle though, so if a triple, or
even a double <isn't really necessary, I'd look for less.
<g>

I share that attitude but there's an aweful lot experience
that goes into understanding what simple is. For a new
rider, triple may be the simplest alternative.

<> The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a
cassette. Freewheels are more <> difficult to swap out than
cassettes. Freewheels also place more stress on the <> rear
axle, so if you're heavy[er], the casette system makes a
better choice for <> you. All in all, lots of variables but
the key is to get a bike that fit. < <Ah, ok, I don't yet
know the difference between a freewheel and a cassette.
<Hasn't come up in conversation with the bike experts at the
6 bike shops <I've been to so far... Something else to
learn... <g>

This site will help you learn more, this link is about
freewheels: sheldonbrown.comgloss eOpen ↗
f.html#freewheel Fw v Cas isn't a major issue, it's just
one of lots of little things that you run into if you stick
with cycling.

<And being heavier, that's a good thing to know/learn. I'm
looking at about <22 miles r/t for work.

Sounds great, good luck with it!

Quoted message said:

I may be riding to work a few days a week, with some
recreational riding on weekends. Unfortunately, it's
almost all downhill to work, so the ride back home after
work will be a pretty good workout, as it's about 600-700
ft difference in elevation in 12 miles.

No, that's not unfortunate at all. That's good!

My commute is similar - downhill in, uphill home. That means
I get to take it easy in the morning and arrive with
relatively little perspiration. On the way home, I work
harder, but I'm not worried about being sweaty at home.

However, your average slope is pretty low. Unless you've got
some steep pitches in there, it sounds like you can do fine
without very low gears.

--
-------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's
between "at" and "cc"]

On 4/10/04 12:04 AM, in article [email hidden],

Quoted post said:

I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start riding,
but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices. My one and only
bike from the 60's was a single speed Schwinn, and right
now I'm riding a single speed AMF Road master I inherited
from my father.

My first question, after having looked and talked to
bikers and bike shops for the last three weeks:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders actually
regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot for riding
around on the city streets, even with hills.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

FWIW, I'm a relative newbie myself (less than a year on the
bike) and I chose an 8-speed triple for my first ride. I'm
very glad I did, because the lowest chainring allowed me to
climb even pretty steep hills without feeling like I'll
never be in shape enough to climb a hill and keep the bike
moving at a nice pace while "learning" how to ride.

Of course, now I mainly use the second ring but I'm sure
happy knowing the lower gears are there if the hill that
requires it comes along!

My understanding (and the group can correct me if I'm wrong
here) is that doubles are more popular with experienced
riders because a) they rarely need the lower gears since
they have good strength in their legs and b) they would like
to shed as much weight as possible from the bike. Even now,
that I'm considering a new bike I think I might go for
another triple since both A and B above really don't apply
to me at this point and the lower cost bikes usually come
with them anyway.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start riding,
but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices. My one and only
bike from the 60's was a single speed Schwinn, and right
now I'm riding a single speed AMF Road master I inherited
from my father.

My first question, after having looked and talked to
bikers and bike shops for the last three weeks:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders actually
regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot for riding
around on the city streets, even with hills.

It really depends a lot on how you ride. If you don't ride
fast, you won't use the top ones. But on my ride today (see
the post titled "Tail winds are a wonderful thing...", I
used all of them within just a few miles. On a short
downhill with the wind, I used my top gear (52-tooth front,
11-tooth rear) when I hit about 30 mph. A few miles later, I
was climbing a steep hill using my lowest gear (and wishing
I had an even lower one), which was a 30-tooth front, and a
23-tooth rear.

If you have a mountain bike, the lowest gears are usually so
low that you will never use them on the road, but might if
you get off onto a steep trail. On a road bike, the highest
gears aren't used a lot, but are some if you like to go fast
down hills.

HTH!

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return
address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

William Holiday said:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:55 GMT,
[email hidden] wrote:

<How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
<actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like <a
lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
<hills.

You sound like you're looking at triple front
chainrings. I ride a double, 18 gears of which I use
about 11. When I ride triples I shift more. You ride a
single speed and if it's suitable to the terrain you're
doing now, you might not need a triple but that's where
the best pricepoints are so just don't shift there
should you get one.

It seems like there is an over abundance of triples out
there, and all the new bike sales shops push them. I'm
trying to look at as many as I can, and haven't completely
ruled out a single, although the hills around here make me
think that's not going to be a viable option. <g> For just
getting ready to ride with relatively short hops of 2-6
miles r/t, I can avoid most of the hills, but for longer
rides, no.

I do like the KISS principle though, so if a triple, or
even a double isn't really necessary, I'd look for
less. <g>

Quoted message said:

The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a
cassette. Freewheels are more difficult to swap out than
cassettes. Freewheels also place more stress on the rear
axle, so if you're heavy[er], the casette system makes a
better choice for you. All in all, lots of variables but
the key is to get a bike that fit.

Ah, ok, I don't yet know the difference between a
freewheel and a cassette. Hasn't come up in conversation
with the bike experts at the 6 bike shops I've been to so
far... Something else to learn... <g>

They wouldn't mention it: *ALL* new bikes use cassettes
rather than freewheels. The only time you'd get a freewheel
would be if you bought used. I guess there may be a really
cheap *Mart bike out there with a freewheel, but you won't
find one at a bike shop

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return
address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Craig Holl said:

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a
lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

I bought a 3-chainring, 8-sprocket cassette (for 24
gears) Trek comfort bike two years ago. I ride almost
exclusively in the 2nd range, mainly using sprockets 2-
8. Only on steep uphills will I go into 1st range, and
only on steep or long downhills will I go into 3rd
range. So maybe once a ride I'll move out of 2nd range,
on average.

So most of my gear combinations go unused. But I sure do
use all the rear sprockets, so I can keep my exertion
level about the same throughout the ride. I wouldn't
want to go to a cassette with less than seven sprockets,
that's for sure. To me, for recreational riding, the
most important thing is to have a wide range of ratios
available, not the number of ratios available.

Ah, then I wonder, can you pick the gears you want, or
are they sold as sets? Like I mentioned, I haven't gotten
down to specifics yet, there is so much to learn these
days... <g>

The range you get depends on the bike you buy. Touring bikes
(Fuji Touring, Trek 520, etc) will have wider ranges than
racing bikes, the they can all be changed later on with very
little effort, and only small cost. I have a Fuji Touring,
and it came with an 11-32 9-speed cassette, but I found that
I hardly ever used the 28 or the 32-tooth cogs, so for $35 I
bought an Ultegra 11-23 cassette to give me closer gears for
the riding I do most of the time. If I decide to do some
loaded touring, or go riding in the mountains, I'll just
slap the 11-32 back on, and I'll be all set.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return
address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:05:12 GMT, Jeff Smith <[email hidden]>
wrote:

<My understanding (and the group can correct me if I'm wrong
here) is that <doubles are more popular with experienced
riders because a) they rarely need <the lower gears since
they have good strength in their legs and b) they <would
like to shed as much weight as possible from the bike. Even
now, that <I'm considering a new bike I think I might go for
another triple since both <A and B above really don't apply
to me at this point and the lower cost <bikes usually come
with them anyway.

The club folk with whom I ride are almost exclusively on
doubles. I'm not talking racers, just recreational and event
riders. I think it's because of the peer thing, everybody
else seems to have one and the granny has a stigma to an
extent. I guess you could say that even the ladies have a
bit of machismo.

I started on a 12s and whenever I ride a triple I have too
much choice and shift too much, so I continue to ride double
as a simpler alternative.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:04:18 -0400, David Kerber

ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

The range you get depends on the bike you buy. Touring
bikes (Fuji Touring, Trek 520, etc) will have wider ranges
than racing bikes, the they can all be changed later on
with very little effort, and only small cost. I have a Fuji
Touring, and it came with an 11-32 9-speed cassette, but I
found that I hardly ever used the 28 or the 32-tooth cogs,
so for $35 I bought an Ultegra 11-23 cassette to give me
closer gears for the riding I do most of the time.

I'm curious- did you change the derailleur when you went to
the tighter cassette?

The reason I ask is because I have a bike with an 11-32, XT
rear derailleur. I am thinking of putting a 12-25 on. But
when I did this on a bike with a Deore rear derailleur, the
shifting became pretty bad- couldn't get the pulleys close
enough, so I lost some crispness. Putting a 105 on got the
crispness back.

Thanks...

IMHO, 21+ gears are just so the bicycle companies can offer
what they think people will feel is an upgrade, so they can
sell more bikes or components. It is silly if you ask me.
Range is more important. I am riding with 16 speed and feel
it is more than enough and I live in Pittsburgh PA, which is
plenty hilly.

If you want to look up-to-date, I guess load op on gears. To
me, it is a waste of weight.

Curt

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start riding,
but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices. My one and only
bike from the 60's was a single speed Schwinn, and right
now I'm riding a single speed AMF Road master I inherited
from my father.

My first question, after having looked and talked to
bikers and bike shops for the last three weeks:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders actually
regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like a lot for riding
around on the city streets, even with hills.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:04:18 -0400, David Kerber

ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

The range you get depends on the bike you buy. Touring
bikes (Fuji Touring, Trek 520, etc) will have wider
ranges than racing bikes, the they can all be changed
later on with very little effort, and only small cost. I
have a Fuji Touring, and it came with an 11-32 9-speed
cassette, but I found that I hardly ever used the 28 or
the 32-tooth cogs, so for $35 I bought an Ultegra 11-23
cassette to give me closer gears for the riding I do most
of the time.

I'm curious- did you change the derailleur when you went
to the tighter cassette?

The reason I ask is because I have a bike with an 11-32,
XT rear derailleur. I am thinking of putting a 12-25 on.
But when I did this on a bike with a Deore rear
derailleur, the shifting became pretty bad- couldn't get
the pulleys close enough, so I lost some crispness.
Putting a 105 on got the crispness back.

It lost a little crispness in the shifting, but it was still
acceptable by my standards, so I left the Deore on with just
some adjustments. I'm thinking about getting a new der, if I
can find one for a good price.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return
address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:01:05 -0400, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:

<> > The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a
cassette. Freewheels are more <> > difficult to swap out
than cassettes. Freewheels also place more stress on the
<> > rear axle, so if you're heavy[er], the casette
system makes a better choice for <> > you. All in all,
lots of variables but the key is to get a bike that fit.
<> <> Ah, ok, I don't yet know the difference between a
freewheel and a cassette. <> Hasn't come up in
conversation with the bike experts at the 6 bike shops <>
I've been to so far... Something else to learn... <g> <
<They wouldn't mention it: *ALL* new bikes use cassettes
rather than <freewheels. The only time you'd get a
freewheel would be if you bought <used. I guess there may
be a really cheap *Mart bike out there with a <freewheel,
but you won't find one at a bike shop

I wouldn't buy a 21 speed without knowing for sure.