Full-fat (natural) food

Anecdotal evidence is not worth while.

I notice you don't post anything about your serum
cholesterol or triglycerides.

"ray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I posted a number of messages to Google Groups a couple of
years ago recommending full fat (natural) food in place of
reduced fat processed food as better for health and weight
level. The change from the later to the former about five
years ago resulted in weight loss with easy maintenance.
Though weight is lower than optimum now, that can be
attributed to structural weakness that doesn't allow much
exercise.

Fat preference is seasonal; virgin coconut oil in summer,
butter and less frequently, EV olive oil, during the other
seasons. 2-3 lbs. would be an average monthly consumption.

Use often is generous. A half-liter of olive oil is
planned to last three days. A few tablespoons are poured
on every serving of grain bases meals. Three or four
tablespoons of butter give a sauce-like fat texture to a
sandwich that's a meal.

About half the diet is whole, intact grain. Animal
products are enjoyed for a small portion. Cholesterol was
139. There were problems with low blood sugar when younger
but now 50; it was 79 after a 16 hour fast.

This is anecdotal evidence a macrobiotic-type grain-based
diet is good for health and weight.

Best, rjn

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with low blood sugar when younger but now 50; it was 79
after a 16 hour fast.

your blood sugar is too low...which can be dangerous..ie
fainting (at least the 50 is way too low)...

with blood sugar...too low is dangerous hawki.....

In article <[email hidden]>, ray

Quoted message said:

I posted a number of messages to Google Groups a couple
of years ago recommending full fat (natural) food in
place of reduced fat processed food as better for health
and weight level.

I use lots of eggs, about 2 pats of butter a day and some
sunflower and olive oil. i make yogurt with whole goat's
milk and use some cheese on a regular basis.

Those are the recommended fats on the Specific Carbohydrate
Diet for gastric diseases. I also control my weight fairly
well and do not low carb strictly. it is self limiting
because of the type of carbs I must select.

--
Diva
*****
The Best Man for the Job May Be A Woman

Sure, processed fats are bad, the typical US diet contains
an amazing amount of trans fats (above 40g a day for some
social categories!). The fact that it is becoming close to
impossible to find real full fat butter with no additives in
many places in the US is a clear sign that something is
getting crazy about their diet. It seems everyone is on
margarine (yuck) or "spread" (double-yuck) there - or cream
cheese for those on the opposite direction. Same with milk,
finding semi-milked milk with no additives (vitamins,
calcium) instead of 1% or 1.5% was a core in NYC. However,
I'm not sure going full force in the opposite direction is
the right answer. Wisdom usually lies in moderation. I mean,
my typical country's diet provides usually around 2.5g of
trans fat a day, mainly from milk products (which come
packaged with CLA) instead of hydrogenated oils (which come
packaged with the worst kinds of trans fats). It also
provide a reasonnable mix between saturated (butter, animal
fat), mono-unsaturated (olive oil, duck fat) and poly-
unsaturated fats (walnut oil). If I look at the statistics
for heart disease, this seems to be a much better diet than
the typical US one. I don't think you really need to drown
your food in olive oil to achieve an healthy diet. I like
the taste of olive oil (especially very fruity ones, like
the ones from Spain), but I still like to get the tastes of
the rest of the food along with it 😉 I mean, half a liter
of olive oil every three days! :-o You must be ruining
yourself! That's pretty expensive oil... Besides, you should
also mix oils. Typical Cretan diet is actually a mix between
olive and walnut oil.

"ray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I posted a number of messages to Google Groups a couple of
years ago recommending full fat (natural) food in place of
reduced fat processed food as better for health and weight
level. The change from the later to the former about five
years ago resulted in weight loss with easy maintenance.
Though weight is lower than optimum now, that can be
attributed to structural weakness that doesn't allow much
exercise.

In article said:

Anecdotal evidence is not worth while.

I notice you don't post anything about your serum
cholesterol or triglycerides.

Patricia, I get about 50% calories from fat, here is my
cholesterol and triglycerides.

2003 2004
1 YEAR AGO NOW

Total 177 175 LDL 94 102 HDL 41 56 Triglyceride 207 83
Fasting glucose 91 90

"Lictor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:40752f56$0$22882The fact that
: ........................it is becoming close to
: impossible to find
real full fat butter with no
: additives in many places in the US is a clear sign that
: something
is getting
: crazy about their diet.

sounds like you need to have a "heart to heart" with your
local grocery store manager. there are PLENTY of
unadulterated brands of butter available.

rosie (from the dairy state)

"rosie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lictor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:40752f56$0$22882
: The fact that it is becoming close to impossible to find
: real full fat butter with no additives in many places in
: the US is a clear sign that something is getting crazy
: about their diet.

sounds like you need to have a "heart to heart" with your
local grocery store manager. there are PLENTY of
unadulterated brands of butter available.

Actually, I don't, I don't live in the USA 😉 All local
supermarkets still carry real food, though we have catched
the craze about adding stuff (like vitamins in milk) to the
food. But I still have the option to buy the food that
doesn't advertise these - which is also the cheapest. That
was just my experience from visiting health conscious parts
of the USA, like NYC or San Francisco. Since I was renting a
flat, I could cook, but finding real raw food there was
amazingly hard. I mean, it took us days to find some regular
butter like we use home - not margarine, light butter, easy
to spread butter, omega-3 enriched butter, spread (how do
they make this thing?), just plain old butter (which tastes
good if possible). Same with milk, unenriched whole milk was
a rarity. Or you had to buy bio stuff, which costs a
fortune. Another amazing thing in NYC was to see how many
stores were carrying diet products : hyperproteidic powder
by the gallon, Atkins stuff, vitamins, creatinine... And on
the other hand, you had supermarkets selling ice cream by
the gallon, mayonnaise in packages so large it would go to
waste before I had time to eat a tenth of it... It really
looked like half the city is trying to burst their stomach
from over-eating while the other health is so anal about
what they eat that they don't even eat real food anymore. I
mean, in my city, I would have to actually *search* to find
one of the very few shops selling diet products. In NYC, I
just crossed several of them daily just walking in the
streets... This all looked rather insane to me...

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:51:20 +0200, "Lictor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"rosie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
kc.rr.com...

Quoted message said:

"Lictor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:40752f56$0$22882
: The fact that it is becoming close to impossible to
: find real full fat butter with no additives in many
: places in the US is a clear sign that something is
: getting crazy about their diet.

sounds like you need to have a "heart to heart" with your
local grocery store manager. there are PLENTY of
unadulterated brands of butter available.

Actually, I don't, I don't live in the USA 😉 All local
supermarkets still carry real food, though we have catched
the craze about adding stuff (like vitamins in milk) to the
food. But I still have the option to buy the food that
doesn't advertise these - which is also the cheapest. That
was just my experience from visiting health conscious parts
of the USA, like NYC or San Francisco.

I'm sorry - NY and SanFran do NOT represent the majority of
the US. They certainly do not represent "typical" america.

Quoted message said:

Since I was renting a flat, I could cook, but finding real
raw food there was amazingly hard. I mean, it took us days
to find some regular butter like we use home - not
margarine, light butter, easy to spread butter, omega-3
enriched butter, spread (how do they make this thing?),
just plain old butter (which tastes good if possible).
Same with milk, unenriched whole milk was a rarity. Or you
had to buy bio stuff, which costs a fortune.

Gosh, that's a shame - every grocery store around here
offers all of the above - including plain ol butter, and
salt free butter. Land O Lakes is a nationwide brand that
has been around longer than I have. Heck - I remember
growing up, my brother would take their boxes, cut the knees
of the indian at the side of the box, then make a flap of
the top of the woman on the front of the box, put the cutout
knees behind it - and voila - when you opened the top up you
saw "[censored]" (which were actually knees - but looked
similar). (teenage boys....)

Quoted message said:

Another amazing thing in NYC was to see how many stores
were carrying diet products : hyperproteidic powder by the
gallon, Atkins stuff, vitamins, creatinine...

And to counter that - I recently spent 3 weeks outside the
US and found that the grocery stores in the countries I
visited had just as many products that were "low fat" or
"low carb" related as we do in the US.

Quoted message said:

And on the other hand, you had supermarkets selling ice
cream by the gallon, mayonnaise in packages so large it
would go to waste before I had time to eat a tenth of
it... It really looked like half the city is trying to
burst their stomach from over-eating while the other
health is so anal about what they eat that they don't even
eat real food anymore. I mean, in my city, I would have to
actually *search* to find one of the very few shops
selling diet products. In NYC, I just crossed several of
them daily just walking in the streets... This all looked
rather insane to me...

You obviously were not looking in the right places. Once
again, our stores carry a large variety. My mayo/mw jars I
buy are the smaller 8oz jars. In the summers I will switch
to a 16oz jar in order to make salads (cole slaw or potatoe)
that my husband enjoys on occasion.

Yes, we do have alot of "bulk" items, and since we have
things called refridgerators and freezers, as well as
cupboards for dry storage, then we can purchase in larger
quantities to store at home instead of making daily trips to
the grocery.

In my lifestyle we make a weekly trip to the grocery to pick
up milk, bread, lunch meats, and fresh meats and veggies.
Otherwise, we tend to go 3 to 4 weeks between grocery visits
for picking the bulk of our needs.

Most of our meats we even puchase and freeze, the only fresh
meat I tend to eat is the occasional steak.

So, unfortunately, IMO, you got a raw deal and a poor image
of the US when you were here.

In alt.support.diet Lictor said:

it is becoming close to impossible to find real full fat
butter with no additives in many places in the US ...

I can't speak for the united states, but real butter can be
found in the dairy case here in Canada. Only ingredients
being cream and salt. There is also unsalted butter as well.

CM

In alt.support.diet Lictor said:

anal about what they eat that they don't even eat real food
anymore. I mean,

Even here in Canada, there are fillers, additives, dyes,
refined sugars, MSG, and other preservatives in EVERYthing.
There is hardly such a thing as real food anymore. I shop
mostly the produce section and the fish department. There
are very few things you can find in a box that don't have
cheap fillers designed to feed on a junk-food addiction here
in North America.

People look at me astonished when I refuse the cheetos and
root beer. "You're not still on 'that diet' are you?"...
well yeah, for the rest of my life eh 🙂

CM

Lictor, if you could not find butter in San Francisco, you
simply did not know how to shop. ROTFLMAO. Butter is sold at
every grocery store.

i

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lictor said:

"rosie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lictor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:40752f56$0$22882
: The fact that it is becoming close to impossible to
: find real full fat butter with no additives in many
: places in the US is a clear sign that something is
: getting crazy about their diet.

sounds like you need to have a "heart to heart" with your
local grocery store manager. there are PLENTY of
unadulterated brands of butter available.

Actually, I don't, I don't live in the USA 😉 All local
supermarkets still carry real food, though we have catched
the craze about adding stuff (like vitamins in milk) to
the food. But I still have the option to buy the food that
doesn't advertise these - which is also the cheapest. That
was just my experience from visiting health conscious
parts of the USA, like NYC or San Francisco. Since I was
renting a flat, I could cook, but finding real raw food
there was amazingly hard. I mean, it took us days to find
some regular butter like we use home - not margarine,
light butter, easy to spread butter, omega-3 enriched
butter, spread (how do they make this thing?), just plain
old butter (which tastes good if possible). Same with
milk, unenriched whole milk was a rarity. Or you had to
buy bio stuff, which costs a fortune. Another amazing
thing in NYC was to see how many stores were carrying diet
products : hyperproteidic powder by the gallon, Atkins
stuff, vitamins, creatinine... And on the other hand, you
had supermarkets selling ice cream by the gallon,
mayonnaise in packages so large it would go to waste
before I had time to eat a tenth of it... It really looked
like half the city is trying to burst their stomach from
over-eating while the other health is so anal about what
they eat that they don't even eat real food anymore. I
mean, in my city, I would have to actually *search* to
find one of the very few shops selling diet products. In
NYC, I just crossed several of them daily just walking in
the streets... This all looked rather insane to me...

"Crafting Mom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even here in Canada, there are fillers, additives, dyes,
refined sugars, MSG, and other preservatives in
EVERYthing. There is hardly such a thing as real food
anymore. I shop mostly the produce section and the fish
department. There are very few things you can find in a
box that don't have cheap fillers designed to feed on a
junk-food addiction here in North America.

Eh, I actually do add MSG in my (some) food myself! 😉 I
mean, I'm not into bio food and all - though I do buy some
bio products from time to time (like oil). But in cultures
where over-eating is the norm, I find it crazy that we feel
the need to add so much [censored] into our food. I mean, how on
hell could I manage to have a deficit in anything with all
the food I eat? Actually, I don't, last checkup showed
calcium, iron and the rest are stuck at the upper bound, and
I hadn't eaten healthy for a long while. How could anyone
who is not on an unsafe diet or anorexic manage to have a
deficit anywhere? Why should I drink milk with *added*
calcium on top of that? I mean, there is such a thing as
*too much* vitamins! Too much D vitamin is fatal, too much
potassium is dangerous... Another problem is that you don't
know how they have added all that stuff. Where is that D
vitamin and calcium added in my milk comming from? Is it
from animal products? Pure synthetized chemicals? GMO? With
mad cow disease and all, I would really like to know where
all this comes from... Finally, the problem is that it's
stuff that is supposed to be in there in the first place.
Milk is naturally rich in vitamins and calcium. So, first
they pump the cow with so much [censored] that they produce
worthless milk, then they process that food in such a way
that whatever might be left is utterly destroyed, and
*then*, they add tons of chemicals to bring back what should
have been there to start with.

The truth is that you can even *taste* it. I mean, I spent
my holidays near a farm last spring, and the farmer was nice
enough to give us free eggs. OMG! This was like I had never
tasted eggs in my life! I mean, the taste was almost *too*
strong. Same with his unprocessed milk, it was actually hard
to adjust to how strong (and creamy) it tastes. Same with
chicken, the difference between industrial chicken and
traditionnally grown chicken is amazing - in taste, texture,
aroma... No wonder people eat so much when most of the food
has no taste...

"Jayjay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:51:20 +0200, "Lictor"
<[email hidden]> wrote: I'm sorry - NY and
SanFran do NOT represent the majority of the US. They
certainly do not represent "typical" america.

Actually, NYC was already a lot better than SF. At least,
buying quality greens and meat was very easy there. Of
course, things might be twisted by the fact that I expect my
next door supermarket to carry everything I need. Maybe out
of city supermarkets did carry what I needed.

Quoted message said:

And to counter that - I recently spent 3 weeks outside the
US and found that the grocery stores in the countries I
visited had just as many products that were "low fat" or
"low carb" related as we do in the US.

Oh, yes, we DO have all these now. Though at least weight
watcher has just launched a line that is low fat regular
carb, instead of both being low... The new trend also seems
to be reasonnably reduced products, like yogourt with +25%
fruits and -20% sugar. It's actually pretty interesting to
watch people's baskets. Most mix diet food like that and
pâté, sausages, ham... It's like people (like me), who
drink diet coke along with their BigMac and kingsized
French fries...

Quoted message said:

You obviously were not looking in the right places. Once
again, our stores carry a large variety. My mayo/mw jars I
buy are the smaller 8oz jars. In the summers I will switch
to a 16oz jar in order to make salads (cole slaw or
potatoe) that my husband enjoys on occasion.

... converting to meaningfull metric units... 8oz would be
medium size to me, 16oz is *large*! Portions are still
much larger in your country than here. I mean, restaurants
were impressive. I have always been a heavy eater, but the
USA is the only country in the world where I didn't manage
to finish what I was served at the restaurant. Yet, by
looking at nearby people, I noticed some actually managed.
Even if I only took the main dish, finishing was not
possible. The plus side is that once I managed to get
passed the shame associated with asking for a doggy bag
(huge cultural issue here) I managed to make two meals out
of a single visit to the restaurant. Or to take a single
meal for myself and my girlfriend (against, once I got
past the shame of asking that).

Quoted message said:

Yes, we do have alot of "bulk" items, and since we have
things called refridgerators and freezers, as well as
cupboards for dry storage, then we can purchase in larger
quantities to store at home instead of making daily trips
to the grocery.

Errr... I do have all these things as well 😉 It's just that
there's no unlimited room in there. If I put gallons of
stuff that will last me for the next couple of years, it's
eating up a lot of room...

Quoted message said:

In my lifestyle we make a weekly trip to the grocery to
pick up milk, bread, lunch meats, and fresh meats and
veggies. Otherwise, we tend to go 3 to 4 weeks between
grocery visits for picking the bulk of our needs.

I used to do the same, though it's rather a weekly trip, and
some visits in between for some stuff. The fact that I have
4 supermarkets within 5 walking minutes of home helps. The
point is that even what you call a small jar of ketchup or
mayonnaise will last me months. Ice cream is not something I
stock up on, if I want to eat some, I just buy whatever I
will eat. Noone here would even see the point of having a
whole bucket of ice cream taking up valuable room in the
freezer...

Quoted message said:

Most of our meats we even puchase and freeze, the only
fresh meat I tend to eat is the occasional steak.

I have begun to do this, though I still somehow find a
better taste to fresh meat.

Quoted message said:

So, unfortunately, IMO, you got a raw deal and a poor
image of the US when you were here.

Actually, not that poor, I was at least surprised at how
easy it was to find vegetables in NYC. I had read Americans
complaining about how hard it was in some cities. But I'm
still trying to explain how your country manages to achieve
that obesity level. I think the size of the servings and the
obsession with diets might be part of the answer. And the
fact that these large packages, along with bigger sized US
fridges, imply that mostly everyone has a large supply of
food at home for bingeing.

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:19:08 +0200, "Lictor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Actually, not that poor, I was at least surprised at how
easy it was to find vegetables in NYC. I had read Americans
complaining about how hard it was in some cities. But I'm
still trying to explain how your country manages to achieve
that obesity level. I think the size of the servings and
the obsession with diets might be part of the answer. And
the fact that these large packages, along with bigger sized
US fridges, imply that mostly everyone has a large supply
of food at home for bingeing.

OK, there are some facts that are true here. In general,
serving sizes are supersized. Its only on very rare
occasions that I ever finish a whole meal at a restaurant.
Heck, I'd be happy with what is considered a "house salad"
or side salad and some meat. But, that's just me.

Quite often DH and I will go out to eat and I'll get just
the side salad and pick off of his meal. That works best
for us. And if the restaurant complains - then they can
kiss my butt. :-)

But, we also found very large portions on our trip to NZ and
AU recently. Many times there, I would leave food behind to
be thrown out. Frankly, I was a bit surprised to find such
similarities while travelling abroad, because I expected
different after all we hear and see on the media.

Anyhow - for many of us, yes, supersize is available, but
that doesn't mean we eat it. I choose to eat in my own
portion range. But hey - that's me, and that's why I'm not
obese. :-)

In article said:

OK, there are some facts that are true here. In general,
serving sizes are supersized. Its only on very rare
occasions that I ever

In Switzerland, serving sizes that I observed at some
restaurants, were not just supersized, they were
hypersized. Completely enormous plates were served with
huge piles of food.

i

"Jayjay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

But, we also found very large portions on our trip to NZ
and AU recently. Many times there, I would leave food
behind to be thrown out. Frankly, I was a bit surprised to
find such similarities while travelling abroad, because I
expected different after all we hear and see on the media.

Sorry, to sound harsh, but to most of the world, (Canada,
USA, Autralia, New Zealand) is some kind of single
composite country with just little funny differences in
between 😉 I mean, language is the same, food is pretty
close, eating habits are close... Errr.. I hope my Canadian
friend won't read that, how she will make me suffer an
horrifying death...

Quoted message said:

Anyhow - for many of us, yes, supersize is available, but
that doesn't mean we eat it. I choose to eat in my own
portion range. But hey - that's me, and that's why I'm not
obese. :-)

But supersize still sets a kind of norm. If you are served a
plate at a restaurant, its size sets the norm of what is
acceptable. The problem many obese face is that they have
their reference system completely messed up. They have no
idea of what hunger, satiety mean. Many actually do not know
any more what a normal human being eats. I'm not even
speaking of the ones who haven't eaten a normal meal for
years (you know, sitting down, in a plate instead of right
from the pot, in a social context...). These people will eat
whatever is given to them, and there supersized servings
really don't really help. Their only limit is the total
amount of food their stomach can contain, and stomach is
very elastic. For myself, my norm was set by the servings at
French restaurants, which are not as small as some Americans
seem to think, but definately not supersized. So, the
servings in the US seemed enormous to me (well, they
actually are). Now that I have tried to adjust myself, I
tend to find that the servings in the French restaurants
have suddently grown bigger than my appetite. It still feels
slightly weird to have food left in my plate once I'm done.

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:24:16 +0200, "Lictor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Jayjay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Sorry, to sound harsh, but to most of the world, (Canada,
USA, Autralia, New Zealand) is some kind of single
composite country with just little funny differences in
between 😉 I mean, language is the same, food is pretty
close, eating habits are close... Errr.. I hope my Canadian
friend won't read that, how she will make me suffer an
horrifying death...

Yes, I learned that on my trip. I was amazed as I was
expecting otherwise... but it is very true how similar
things are between many of these countries.

Then again, its also a very small world. In Sydney we were
standing in line to go to a restaurant and the couple behind
us noticed our accent. They asked where we were from in the
states. When we told them the woman asked what town, and it
turns out, she grew up in our town and was over in Sydney
for school, met a guy and they were now engaged.

Its odd to be 1/2 way across the world and meet someone from
your own town that now lives in this other country.

Quoted message said:

For myself, my norm was set by the servings at French
restaurants, which are not as small as some Americans seem
to think, but definately not supersized. So, the servings
in the US seemed enormous to me (well, they actually are).
Now that I have tried to adjust myself, I tend to find that
the servings in the French restaurants have suddently grown
bigger than my appetite. It still feels slightly weird to
have food left in my plate once I'm done.

This bring somethign else up. In the US, it also depends on
the type and quality of restaurant you go to. Should you go
to a French restaurant - the higher quality have the smaller
meals, more "gourmet" type meals, but the lower quality
French will serve you tons of food.

The higher quality restaurant you go to, the smaller the
portions tend to be.

Now, I'm not talkign about your typical "steak house" as
I have yet to find one - no matter the price range, that
actually has normal portions. Hell - a 12oz porterhouse
is not a single serving to me... I'll take 1/4 of that,
thank you.

In alt.support.diet Lictor said:

The truth is that you can even *taste* it. I mean, I spent
my holidays near a farm last spring, and the farmer was
nice enough to give us free eggs. OMG! This was like I had
never tasted eggs in my life!

I agree!

I spent six years living on a farm, and was completely
spoiled by the fresh eggs I used to eat from there. They had
about a dozen hens and there is just nothing like those
eggs! Supermarket eggs are *nothing* compared to home-raised
eggs! Same thing with the milk from the farm next door (we
often traded eggs for milk), the cream skimmed from the top
was incredible! The milk was beyond this world.

Going into the produce section of the supermarket these days
and seeing all the poor-quality veggies is sad compared to
what I ate those 6 years on the farm. Home grown cucumbers
and zucchini were my favorite vegetables. And we had fresh
apples off the tree. Apples ripened right on the tree are
like nothing else.

Quoted message said:

amazing - in taste, texture, aroma... No wonder people eat
so much when most of the food has no taste...

I agree. Food simply isn't food anymore around here. CM

Lictor said:

The fact that it is becoming close to impossible to find
real full fat butter with no additives in many places in
the US is a clear sign that something is getting crazy
about their diet.

I've lived in the US all of my life but a few trips. I do
not recall a single grocery store that did not stock regular
butter, regular vegitables, regular, and so on. Sure, plenty
of space is dedicated to junk food but that is different
from thinking stores do not carry real food.

Quoted message said:

It seems everyone is on margarine (yuck) or

Chuckle. I was raised on margarine because at the time
people believed it was better for health. The data turned
out to be wrong but since I had it as a child I prefer the
flavor of margarine over butter. Shrug. I use real butter
anyways. It's fine. ;^)

Quoted message said:

"spread" (double-yuck) there

What IS it with "spread"? Velveeta is fake stuff so
revolting it is illegal to call it cheese. "Spread" is fake
stuff so revolting it is illegal to even call it margarine!

Quoted message said:

However, I'm not sure going full force in the opposite
direction is the right answer. Wisdom usually lies in
moderation.

Moderation is not equality, though. The best solution
is more like 95% natural foods and 5% fake foods than
like 50-50.