Psychs bypass due process

[email hidden] (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Babsie, little dearest, I'm in the mood tonight to love
you. Do us a favour and read 'Mask of Sanity'.
cassiopaea.orgc%27sbook.htmOpen ↗ Right-click or
left-click, it's wonderful reading. Forgive me, I'm not
posting it here, too much of a strain. It is a PDF. You can
download it or read online. Go to page 102 and read one of
the stories presented as material of illustration of the
anti-social personality. Yes, you are right, you have heard
this word before, and so had Hubbard. Mr. Hervey Cleckley,
M.D. wrote this book 1941. If you take the pleasure and
read it, you will immediately pick-up the sense of
distinguished educated leasurely applied scrutiny and
science, where Hubbard remembered a whiff of smell from
later on, and invented the hangman knot, to get rid of it.
I urge you here and now in this thread, as I am in sorrow,
that innocent bystanders will take your verbal petting with
imagined and real responders to your rant against psychatry
as something to be read seriously. Mr. Cleckley is a true
gem to read. Know what? I post a story here, now. It's not
the one from Anna, this is Frank's. It sheds a wonderful
light on how much of scrupulous thoughts go into applied
everyday's psychatry by good people (That Hubbard stole
from). Here it goes:

Frank The following letter was received by an influential
senator in Washington and referred by him to the hospital.

Dear Sir: It is with regret that I find it necessary to seek
consideration from higher authority but I have been confined
in the Veterans Administration Hospital at for two years.
During my period of incarceration here I have tried in every
available way to cooperate with the officials, but it seems
an impossibility to get any consideration from them toward
gaining my freedom. I was placed here on the recommendation
of my sister because she thought I was a drug addict, and
she has written some pretty nasty things against me to the
officials here. I can prove to the satisfaction of all
concerned that I am not a confirmed drug addict or habitual
user of any form of drug sufficiently to warrant continuous
confinement. I am not a criminal, nor had I the slightest
minor charge of any description against me at the time I
came here. The Staff here has rated me less than 10 percent
disabled and discontinued all government compensation;
therefore, I believe you will agree with me that any man
with a less than 10 percent disability could not possess a
physical or mental disorder sufficient to prevent his having
his freedom and making his own livelihood. I am not even
allowed parole privileges of the grounds as a great many of
the patients here are. Some are continually violating
institutional rules and still retain their parole privileges
undisciplined. I have two children, who need my support and
as long as I am kept incarcerated I can't assist them in any
way for I have no means other than my labor to support them.
I hereby humbly request you to intercede in my behalf and
demand these officials here to grant my release in order
that I may be able to support my children to the best of my
ability as is every man's duty. There are quite a few men in
these institutions that are nothing short of impositions on
the government and taxpayers of the United States. They, the
same as myself, are perfectly capable mentally and
physically to support themselves and should be forced to do
so. I have begged for parole, trial visit, or any other
means to prove myself selfsustaining, but the authorities
here seem to take my plea as a joke and make a lot of
promises that they have no intention of putting into action.
I will gladly submit to any physical or mental examination
you may deem necessary to assist you in obtaining my release
from this place. I pray that you will give my earnest
request your immediate consideration. Please be assured that
I hold no malice toward any of the officials here or
elsewhere but my only objective in writing you is to gain my
freedom and support my children. Please let me hear from you
personally, Yours very respectfully, Frank ______

The writer of this letter has behind him a formidable record
of misadventure. Detailed knowledge of Frank's early life is
not available beyond the following facts. The son of a
rustic blacksmith, he was raised in a small hamlet near the
mountains of north Georgia. So far as can be learned, no
members of his family suffered from nervous or mental
disease or made themselves objectionable in the community.
He completed the fifth grade in school, where he was
considered by no means a dull boy, though often truant. Many
of the hours he was supposed to have spent in school or
working at some necessary chore for his family he is
reported to have idled away in loitering about a local
millpond drowning goats and doing other senseless or
uninviting deeds of mischief. Before the United States
entered World War I, Frank had forged his father's name to a
false statement about his age and enlisted in the National
Guard. He was given vocational training by the government
after his discharge from the army. He was tried at several
courses but made no serious effort to complete any of them.
In his community he soon made himself a problem, sometimes
drinking to excess, often behaving in a rowdy and
threatening manner, contracting to buy small businesses,
filling stations, farms, but never living up to his
agreements. Local ex-service men, believing that he took
morphine and that treatment might help his maladjustment
(commonly referred to as "nervousness"😉, had him sent to a
psychiatric hospital. He remained for a month, then returned
to continue in his old ways. Now began a series of
hospitalizations which extends to the present time. He would
be sent first to one place, then to another. He has been
treated in state hospitals, in federal hospitals, and in
private institutions at the expense of the government. All
told, he has been admitted no less than nineteen times to
strictly mental hospitals maintained for the purpose of
treating psychotic people. Sometimes he remained only three
or four weeks and sometimes six or even eighteen months.
Over the years his periods of hospitalization have grown
slightly longer and his intervals outside shorter. He has
never, during the past fifteen years, been free longer than
a few months. While not under the care of psychiatrists he
has received considerable attention from the police. His
jail sentences number seven at the present reading,
including a term of nine months in the Leavenworth
Penitentiary (where he was sent for forging a prescription
for morphine) but not counting a score or more of overnight
or weekend stops in police barracks. Despite these
preoccupations Frank has found time to marry and have four
children and to become ordained as a minister in a small
religious sect noted for vigorous evangelical fervor. His
marital relations have been most unsatisfactory during the
interludes when he was free to be with the family. His wife
reports that he curses her and fights with her, and it is
well established that he seizes any money that is available,
hires automobiles, and drives aimlessly about the
countryside, often drinking to excess and, according to some
reports, occasionally taking morphine. At times he has
seemed proud of his ecclesiastical title, referring to
himself as a pastor and assuming unctuous and haughty airs.
He has not, however, occupied himself with whatever
ministerial duties he was supposed to fulfill any more
consistently than with other work. His friends, especially
those interested in the American Legion and other service
organizations, have obtained many positions for him. He is
shrewd, neat in appearance, and an excellent talker. He
makes a good impression at first but always shirks his
responsibility to such an extent that it is impossible to
retain him. A few years ago he was given a place at a
filling station and seemed, surprisingly, to show
considerable interest in his work for several days. It was
then discovered that he had been drawing off all the
gasoline he could and taking it to a nearby town where he
sold it and bought morphine from dope peddlers, most of
which he, in turn, sold at a tremendous profit to local
addicts. He has been consistently arrogant and aggressive
toward his neighbors and acquaintances, usually over
trifling matters. After taking a few drinks, he has often
threatened others, claimed things that were not his own, and
made such a nuisance of himself that local police would be
called to deal with him. He is boastful and histrionic, more
eloquently and aggressively so with a few highballs, and
much given to temper tantrums. He frequently threatens to
kill himself over some petty vexation and once offered a
pistol to his wife, urging her grandiloquently to shoot him.
He has never made an attempt, however, to harm himself,
though his opportunities have been unlimited. He has been
reported as having convulsive seizures. These developed when
he was refused special attention by physicians and seemed,
according to their descriptions, plainly and consciously
designed toward obtaining various ends. This manifestation
has also been noted when he was confined to jail and wanted
to be sent to a mental hospital in order to escape charges
that had been brought against him. These so-called seizures
have been observed several times in this hospital by
competent psychiatrists. They did not in any way suggest
epilepsy nor were they convincing as possible reactions of
true hysteria. The patient is unquestionably conscious and
shows that he is behaving intentionally in this way to gain
a recognized end. Unlike a conversion phenomenon, the
purpose does not appear to be concealed from his conscious
awareness.63,76 Though occasionally confused after heavy
drinking (perhaps with the addition of drugs), he has at all
other times been entirely rational, alert, shrewd, and free
from delusions and hallucinations. Early in Frank's career
his disturbance was diagnosed on several occasions as
hysteria, sometimes as both psychopathic personality and
hysteria. Once he was given a diagnosis of psychopathic
personality with psychotic episodes. There was not, however,
any evidence of behavior or symptoms different from what he
has shown on other occasions. There is reason to suspect
that the real and pressing need to keep this patient
hospitalized may have played an important part in his being
so classified. The genuinely irrational and incompetent
behavior, no doubt, supports the use of such a term as
psychosis, despite the lack of any additional symptoms. The
irrational behavior which has characterized him is not based
on a delusional system or on any loss of the good reasoning
ability he shows on examination. Some of his most turbulent
misconduct has, of course, been exhibited while he was
intoxicated. At such times he naturally lacked his customary
shrewdness and alertness. However, this cannot
conscientiously be called a psychotic episode beyond and
above his wellknown inadequacy but rather the manifestation
of inebriety. I do not mean to say that this man is normal
but only that he has none of the recognized types of mental
disorder, episodic or constant. If his drunken and wayward
episodes are to be termed psychotic, then it would seem that
his state at other times might also be termed psychotic,
since it is in his shrewd, technically sane condition that
he decides to add the picturesque touches of intoxication
which he well knows will bring him to the attention of the
police. At this hospital, at the state hospitals, and at the
other institutions to which Frank was sent in recent years,
he has been considered a sane man without psychotic
episodes. The symptomatic diagnoses of drug addiction and
chronic alcoholism have been added. During all these years
he has shown no evidence of deterioration or regression, and
today at 38 years of age he is the same clever, alert person
he was described as being twenty years ago. Unlike nearly
all real morphine addicts, he does not show ordinary
withdrawal symptoms or other signs of physical illness and
acute distress when, after being admitted to the hospital,
he is deprived of opportunities to obtain the drug. If the
reports that he takes morphine have any factual basis, such
use must be sporadic. There is little or no evidence that
effects of the drug have regularly played any major role in
his behavior. It appears that his chief connection with
drugs has been through his part in peddling them illicitly.

His career in the hospital has been marked by frequent
paroles which are always terminated by his failing to
return, returning drunk, or being taken up by the police for
petty theft, swindling, and futile and unprovoked disorder.
Though ingratiating and outwardly cooperative when he is
trying to obtain parole or discharge, he constantly schemes
to escape or, surreptitiously, to call upon high authorities
to have him released. Once, while helping attendants on the
disturbed ward, he succeeded in turning hot water into a tub
in which a psychotic patient lay in a continuous bath. He
did not try to injure the man seriously, but merely to hurt
him a little as a joke. This is a fair example of the inane,
humorless mischief that underlies the pretentious front
assumed by this former pastor. Despite his medicolegal
status, which, of course, is technically regarded as
constituting sanity, those interested in finding some
practical way to protect him and his family and to cope with
the ever accumulating problems succeeded on one occasion in
having him committed by the court. Those close to the
situation evidently found in his behavior reasons for action
more compelling than the abstract criteria which stood in
the way of such a step. After being held in the hospital for
several months, despite his reiterated demands for discharge
against medical advice, he called in an attorney. Frank had
in the past always found no difficulty in leaving when it
suited his purpose or his whim. In view of his well-
demonstrated inability to live in freedom, he was now, by
means of the legal commitment, kept against his wishes in
order to spare his family, the community, and himself the
hardships he had brought about before and was sure to bring
about again.

The attorney for the government, in attempting to resist
habeas corpus proceedings, found himself in a familiar
dilemma, as the following quotations from his letter
will show:

"It is evident that the medical staff at the hospital are
using the term insane to convey the meaning of the medical
definition of the word rather than the legal definition. In
other words, the thought back of the use of the word appears
to me to be that it is the opinion of neuropsychiatrists
that this man is not suffering from a mental disease as
physicians understand the term, that he does not have a
psychosis. It does appear, however, that it is their opinion
that the state of his mind due to drug addiction and also
manifested by his past antisocial behavior is such as to
warrant the conclusions that he is incompetent and that he
should receive treatment in a hospital for the cure of
nervous and mental diseases. To say, however, that he is
incompetent but not insane presents a rather inconsistent
picture with which to go into court. We may be confronted
with such a question as why he needs to be in a hospital for
the care of nervous and mental diseases if he has no nervous
or mental disease. I am inclined to think that the terms
insanity and incompetency so far as their legal significance
is concerned are used interchangeably and that the important
point to be considered, whether you call a man insane or
merely admit that he is incompetent, is whether the person
is incapable of administering his personal estate in the
normal manner of a prudent man and whether there is definite
evidence of a more or less prolonged departure from normal
behavior as compared with the standards of the community,
such as dissipation of funds, unwise purchases, and utter
lack of appreciation of values. Because of the fact that I
anticipate some difficulty in trying to show that the man is
incompetent but not insane, I would appreciate an expression
of your views on the matter. It occurs to me also that a man
ought to be confined who is a menace to others and likely to
do harm to others, even though his mental condition may be
due in part to inadequate mental development and in part to
the use of drugs. He may be just as dangerous to himself or
to others as a person suffering from a mental disease and
who, according to the purely medical definition of insanity,
would be pronounced insane."

Of course, it might be asked why these people are not let
out of the mental hospitals and left to the police. If they
are considered responsible for their misdeeds, let them be
punished. This, as a matter of fact, is what the average
psychiatric hospital is nearly always forced to do, whatever
its physicians may think of the wisdom and practicality of
such a procedure. These men are studied, found free of
recognized mental disorder which might make them unaware of
what they are doing, and are sent back out into the world.
They are arrested not once but many times. Most of them
seldom commit such serious crimes that they are kept out of
circulation in penal institutions for long periods. Only
rarely can they be kept for more than a few days. They do
not follow any purposive criminal life. They make a nuisance
of themselves to the community as a whole and often
tragically wreck the lives of those close to them, and all
to no discernible end. The police and the courts tire of
them. Through various influences they are forced back on the
mental hospitals where they take legal action to regain
their freedom, only to begin the process again. If, as
stated in the quotations previously cited, it would be
difficult to prove this man incompetent but not insane, it
would be far more difficult, by existing definitions of
psychiatry, to prove him "insane." His perfectly rational
(superficial) behavior under scrutiny, his freedom from
delusions, his shrewdness, his alertness, and his convincing
plan for a normal, useful life, in short, his plain sanity
as this is ordinarily understood, make it all but impossible
for a judge or a jury to call him insane. Psychiatrists,
familiar with his long record of senseless behavior, are
able to see more reason to do so than could be brought out
before a court in terms of abstract criteria by which the
decision is determined.

But according to the accepted standards of psychiatry, his
diagnosis carries with it an official and automatic
endorsement of the patient as sane and competent. No matter
how strongly impressed by real and practical evidence to the
contrary, all physicians, testifying in such a case must
admit that the official technicalities approve this paradox.
Having won his case in court, the patient was released
against medical advice. Frank did not go home but remained
in the city where he at once claimed the attention of the
police. On being released after a few days in jail, he took
a room at the best hotel and annoyed other guests by various
tactics, such as trying to borrow money, sponge on them for
a meal, or sell them something useless or nonexistent. He
became at times loudly boastful or rowdy and eventually fell
on the floor drunk. He refused to pay for his room and
resisted the management's attempts to remove him. He sought
loans under bold-faced pretenses, ran up debts without
regard to the possibilities of payment, and telephoned and
wrote to his family, threatening suicide unless his demands
for money were promptly met. There are indications that he
was not inactive during this period in old devices of petty
thievery, shortchanging, and various types of fraud, sharp
practice, and connivance that exist, more or less, on the
fringe of organized but illegal racketeering found in any
city. Nothing, however, could be pinned on him by the law
that led to his being effectively controlled. In all issues
of this sort that arose, he had his record as a patient once
legally committed and often confined to psychiatric
institutions. This record was, in his ingenious hands, of
considerable value as insurance against penal restraint.
After several arrests, the police began to call on the
hospital to relieve them of their problems with this man.
They were told that nothing could be done since he had been
legally removed and the hospital was enjoined by the court
not to hold him. Soon afterward the police and various local
people began to seek advice on how to deal with him from the
attorney who had liberated this man. The patient himself
soon joined in, coming repeatedly to the attorney's office
or his house, sometimes drunk and always unreasonable, to
shout about the injustices of the world, borrow money, evade
threatening penalties, and to demand diverse preposterous
services. The veteran had promised to pay the attorney's
bill with bonus money, but now it appeared that this money
had already been squandered. Hoping to collect his fee and,
no doubt, from humanitarian impulses, the attorney sought to
keep in touch with his client. Those with whom he had run up
bills and floated little loans joined others swindled or
defrauded in small matters and took up their problems with
the patient's legal representative.

Soon the incessant complaints from annoyed people, the
client's own nagging or uproarious invasions upon him at all
hours, and the constant queries of the police drove him to
seek relief. The patient being again in jail, the attorney
persuaded him to agree to return to the hospital voluntarily
and pled with the physician in charge to take him back,
confessing himself at fault ever to have released such a
scourge on the community and on himself. Arrangements were
made for readmission. The patient arrived in custody of a
policeman. He was still somewhat stimulated from a recent
intoxication but, though overbearing and pompous, showed no
signs of real drunkenness nor of an officially recognized
psychosis. Frank took a high-handed manner, swaggered about,
and finally refused to come back into the hospital, saying
that he had no mental disease and that he preferred to
return to jail where he would soon be released to carry out
important business plans and social activities. He enjoyed
the incident, played up his role dramatically, and took a
peremptory and haughty tone with everyone. He soon obtained
his freedom, but some weeks later after running up big
debts, giving several more bad checks, and participating in
a series of senseless, bawdy escapades, he was finally
returned to the hospital. Three months later he again
obtained his discharge on a writ of habeas corpus but not
through the same attorney. The story in its broad essentials
was repeated. Since his last admission, following the
exploits just mentioned, he has been true to form. After
varying periods on a closed ward, parole has been given; he
has lost it repeatedly and gone back among "demented" and
helpless groups with whom he is, to say the least, not at
home. He has continued at all times free from the technical
stigmata of psychosis, remaining crafty, intelligent, and
superficially cooperative while trying to gain his ends.
Frank takes advantage of every opportunity to make trouble
in the hospital and is rather restless and extremely
dissatisfied. He sends frequent letters to women in town to
whom he regards himself as paying court. These are written
in a neat hand, well spelled, and well expressed and are
much better letters than would be expected from a man of his
education. They are marked with self-righteousness, extreme
egotism, trite sentimentality, and monumental falsehood. His
tone is that of a lover who regards his own passion as very
high and rare. "Only God knows," he writes, "why I wasn't
left over there among the poppies with my heroic buddies,"
falsely describing himself as a captain in charge of 272
men. "My wife never understood me!" he complains in the same
letter. What does he expect of her? The question invites
meditation.

OK, Barbara, if you really had the sincerity to have read it
down to here, I give you my secret belief: Frank *might* be
one of the anti-social personalities, Hubbard was talking
about. Right? Now, what do you think, how many of these
people are there out on the street. Three of a hundred? Not
so! Right? And hanging them? Err.

steff

PS The next story is Anna! That's a nice one! So well
mannered!

Quoted message said:

Don't forget to post the excerpts from the Klee speech, as
soon you have time, Kestrel.

Barbara

-- If there ever was an apple, Hubbard was the worm. Es ist
leichter, hinter einer Sache zu stehen, als vor ihr. Only
plain text emails are accepted.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Babsie, little dearest, I'm in the mood tonight to love
you. Do us a favour and read 'Mask of Sanity'.
cassiopaea.orgc%27sbook.htmOpen ↗ Right-click
or left-click, it's wonderful reading. Forgive me, I'm
not posting it here, too much of a strain.

Yes, I know, Marty would have never said that. May he rest
in peace. What I ment certainly wasn't a strain on my
part, but on the server's. I know your prudence would
understand. Just to clarify for the readers;-)

steff

Quoted message said:

It is a PDF. You can download it or read online. Go to
page 102 and read one of the stories presented as
material of illustration

You are attacking Scientology because it is rightfully anti-
psychiatry, Stefan. You are psychiatric troll like so many
other posters here. You should read the below posting that
was done by Kestrel not long ago in original thread. It
seems to me that you try to get rid of the anti-psychiatry
and the anti-Nazi information by opening another thread.

Ernst Klee lives in Germany, a country that adores their
unprofessional and brutal psychiatry as it would be a
religion. Did you hear of him? I hope that Ernst Klee has a
lot of lawyers surrounding him as I think that psychs would
love to collect and commit him after he so properly and
truthfully spilled the truth about psychs and Nazis.

The psychs always talked about getting rid of the imbecile.
If they would have committed suicide, they would have had
that end product.

Psychs suppressived mankind before the Nazis and they are
still at it. And one of their movements was persecuting
Scientology, infiltrating it and hiring guys like you and
the other extremists and attacking Scientology in newsgroups
or otherwise over the Internet or in the media.

This is some of what Kestrel posted, read it and confront
it, Stefan.

"I always look forward to an opportunity to post excerpts
from this speech by Ernst Klee, entitled "Killing by
starvation in the institutions and other previous crimes of
psychiatry." Klee is the author of "Good Old Days: The
Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders," as
well as other histories published in German. This speech is
translated from German. The full text can be found in
English at irren-offensive.dekleespeech.htmOpen ↗

"German Psychiatry Needed the Nazis

"Long before the Nazis would come to power psychiatrists
already made similar demands [freedom to exterminate their
patients].

"Emil Kraeplin 1918: "An absolute ruler who unscrupulously
interfered with human habits would, without any doubt and in
the course of only a few decades, effectuate a decline in
mental debility."

"In 1931, Hermann Simon, Head of the Anstalt in Gütersloh
clearly defines the supposedly inferior category of people.
These include: the physically ill, the invalid, the weak,
the imbecile, the crippled and the insane, and he concludes:
"Someone will have to die again."

"Ernst Rüdin 1934: "The psychiatrist and the healthy person
are allies against the genetically defective. The
psychiatrist must render his service to the ultimate aim of
a hereditary pure, able and superior race." Rüdin, who
regarded compulsory sterilization as the "most humane act of
humankind', says in 1934 about [censored]: "Only Adolf [censored]'s
political work made it possible that the people's awareness
for the meaning and importance of the purity of race could
be raised and heightened. Our dream, lasting for over more
than 30 years now, has finally become reality."

"The Nazis did not use German Psychiatry but German
Psychiatry needed the Nazis.

"Psychiatrists had to denigrate their patients because of
their own incapacity to provide either cure or therapy.
Hence, the first to be disposed of were those who confronted
them directly with this inability: the chronically ill (the
so-called incurable). German psychiatric history was to
culminate into the almost unutterable: they said 'treat' but
meant 'murder' instead." "
-------

Barbara Schwarz

[email hidden] (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Babsie, little dearest, I'm in the mood tonight to love
you. Do us a favour and read 'Mask of Sanity'.
cassiopaea.orgc%27sbook.htmOpen ↗ Right-
click or left-click, it's wonderful reading. Forgive
me, I'm not posting it here, too much of a strain.

Yes, I know, Marty would have never said that. May he
rest in peace. What I ment certainly wasn't a strain on
my part, but on the server's. I know your prudence would
understand. Just to clarify for the readers;-)

steff

Quoted message said:

It is a PDF. You can download it or read online. Go to
page 102 and read one of the stories presented as
material of illustration

You are attacking Scientology because it is rightfully anti-
psychiatry, Stefan.

That's plain [censored]. I am in no way related to
psychiatry business.

Quoted message said:

You are psychiatric troll like so many other posters here.
You should read the below posting that was done by Kestrel
not long ago in original thread. It seems to me that you
try to get rid of the anti-psychiatry and the anti-Nazi
information by opening another thread.

No, but like one other said, you are grumbling through
stuff, that 60 and more years old, and try to draw
connection to present time.

Quoted message said:

Ernst Klee lives in Germany, a country that adores their
unprofessional and brutal psychiatry as it would be a
religion.

That is your fixed idea. In the opposite. Germany has very
restrictive governmental rules to prevent a situation, that
we had in the third reich.

Quoted message said:

Did you hear of him?

It is good, that he shows the deeds of those perverted
professionals of those days. I knew about those from my
childhood on, as I was raised in a house, that was
stigmatised and very alerted against fascism. So we had a
great deal of talking on the subject, and the
circumstance, that many of the pro-nazi people were in
power again after the war, up into the siventies, was an
often commented on fact.

Quoted message said:

I hope that Ernst Klee has a lot of lawyers surrounding
him as I think that psychs would love to collect and
commit him after he so properly and truthfully spilled the
truth about psychs and Nazis.

Until he steps on toes of those directly in power, he should
not need that. Most of these old farts have gone down the
drain. But, of course, it might be families of those
accused, that try to start trouble.

Quoted message said:

The psychs always talked about getting rid of the
imbecile. If they would have committed suicide, they would
have had that end product.

Psychs suppressived mankind before the Nazis and they are
still at it. And one of their movements was persecuting
Scientology, infiltrating it and hiring guys like you and
the other extremists and attacking Scientology in
newsgroups or otherwise over the Internet or in the media.

Ah bull. Scientology is a quack undertaking. It's a
collection of long established truths and half-thruths +
plain phantasy. He would have liked to gain reputation by a
serious fight with professionals, but noone did find enough
substance to even start it, except maybe the AMA. In so far,
that Hubbard claimed to be a professional in the beginning.

Quoted message said:

This is some of what Kestrel posted, read it and confront
it, Stefan.

I could bet, though I have not read it really, that he did
not post about the relationship of psychatry and
Scientology. So this is an artful suggestion you implement
for innocent readers.

Quoted message said:

"I always look forward to an opportunity to post excerpts
from this speech by Ernst Klee, entitled "Killing by
starvation in the institutions and other previous crimes
of psychiatry." Klee is the author of "Good Old Days: The
Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders," as
well as other histories published in German. This speech
is translated from German. The full text can be found in
English at irren-offensive.dekleespeech.htmOpen ↗

I know of the terrible crimes, that german psychatrists did
here during the fascist regime. And, I felt always special
attended somehow by prosecuting procedings on that concern,
as the central governmental agency in duty of it is located
10 miles from here, in Ludwigsburg.

Quoted message said:

"German Psychiatry Needed the Nazis

"Long before the Nazis would come to power psychiatrists
already made similar demands [freedom to exterminate their
patients].

"Emil Kraeplin 1918: "An absolute ruler who unscrupulously
interfered with human habits would, without any doubt and
in the course of only a few decades, effectuate a decline
in mental debility."

"In 1931, Hermann Simon, Head of the Anstalt in Gütersloh
clearly defines the supposedly inferior category of
people. These include: the physically ill, the invalid,
the weak, the imbecile, the crippled and the insane, and
he concludes: "Someone will have to die again."

"Ernst Rüdin 1934: "The psychiatrist and the healthy
person are allies against the genetically defective. The
psychiatrist must render his service to the ultimate aim
of a hereditary pure, able and superior race." Rüdin, who
regarded compulsory sterilization as the "most humane act
of humankind', says in 1934 about [censored]: "Only Adolf
[censored]'s political work made it possible that the people's
awareness for the meaning and importance of the purity of
race could be raised and heightened. Our dream, lasting
for over more than 30 years now, has finally become
reality."

"The Nazis did not use German Psychiatry but German
Psychiatry needed the Nazis.

"Psychiatrists had to denigrate their patients because of
their own incapacity to provide either cure or therapy.
Hence, the first to be disposed of were those who
confronted them directly with this inability: the
chronically ill (the so-called incurable). German
psychiatric history was to culminate into the almost
unutterable: they said 'treat' but meant 'murder'
instead." "
-------

And I do know of the racial theories of some of those
psychatrists. Well, it's for long been overcome by modern
theories, and these people do not play any significant role
today in shaping our society. Not so, whatsoever. The
results of modern scientific research ridicule all of this
from the start. It's in the opposite. Any dog's owner knows,
that racial mixtures live longer, and are more robust in
general. Those theories of anxient times are a bizarre
episode to tell us, what happens to science, if it is
oppressed by worldly rulers. Just like there are no
scientists in Scientology at all, as within this body of
oppressive and permissive rules, there is no room for free
study at all. Let's be thankful to god, that Scientology
does not rule the world, as otherwise we'd have only
gleichgeschaltete and brainwashed young *scientists*, that
would rather say: 'Why, Hubbard has found all answers, isn't
it? Now, let me try that R45A again..'

steff

Quoted message said:

Barbara Schwarz

--
"Imagine a church If there ever was an apple, Hubbard was
the worm. so dangerous, you Es ist leichter, hinter einer
Sache zu stehen, must sign a release als vor ihr. form
before you can Only plain text emails are accepted. receive
its "spiritual assistance." This assistance might involve
holding you against your will for an indefinite period,
isolating you from friends and family, and denying you
access to appropriate medical care. You will of course be
billed for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.

Welcome to the Church of Scientology."

Dr. Dave Touretzky Peter Alexander