Build a bike?

<rickn> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I am tempted to buy a $500.00 frame (Specialized Allez
Comp CR-MO, or equal?), or a used frame, and build a bike.
I built my mountain bike from a bare frame and enjoyed the
experience. I already own most of the tools necessary.

That says it all right there. You are into self-sufficiency
and self reliance and did fine by it. A friend of mine
builds up all his own bikes himself. I don't, but he does.
Why not give it a shot?

Quoted message said:

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike.

BUT: the bike-shop opinion is not exactly impartial either,
is it? They may be right, strictly speaking, with seperately
bought all-new components, but do you get satisfaction out
of doing it yourself and learning the skills? You can't put
a price on that.

Quoted message said:

I am not surprised at this, BUT:

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me $2000.00
to build BUT if I can buy a nice frame and assemble the
bike with "105" level (slightly used) components isn't it
possible that I might wind up with my own "custom"
configured ride that would cost close to that of a
complete new bike? And then NEXT YEAR I could start
upgrading components! (please?)

The frame you describe and "105" level slightly used
components would not end up costing you $2000. You'd save a
bucket-load over new. You can even find new leftovers for
cheap too. Also try rec.bicycles.marketplace. I bought my
wife a year old Cannondale 3000si with full Dura Ace and
Rolf Sestrierre wheels for $1100. Not a bad deal.

Quoted message said:

And here is another problem: If I build a bike I will not
be able to test ride. Is a lack of test ride enough reason
to toss this idea? It would seem that plenty of people
build their own bikes, do they know exactly what they want
for frame geometry before they start? (Or are these the
people selling frames and parts on ebay?)

All I can say is, Know Thyself.

Jim

Quoted message said:

I am tempted to buy a $500.00 frame (Specialized Allez
Comp CR-MO, or equal?), or a used frame, and build a bike.
I built my mountain bike from a bare frame and enjoyed the
experience. I already own most of the tools necessary.

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike.

Unless you go the used-component route that you mentioned,
in all likelihood you will spend more money putting a bike
together from parts than you would if you just bought a new
bike outright, especially if you buy a closeout (you can
sometimes get a complete bike for less than the cost of the
groupo if you buy an older model). But so what? I used to
work for Heathkit Electronics, and we sold you-build-it
televisions, stereos, computers & more, and, more often than
not, it cost you *more* to buy something you'd have to build
than to buy something similar that's ready-to-go at the
local stereo or electronics store. Price isn't the only
consideration.

The best reason for wanting to put it together a piece at a
time is for the experience of having done so, and the
feeling that you really know the machine you're riding on,
and can handle anything that comes your way. That's a great
reason for such a project! But you might also find it just
as satisfying to buy a new bike off the shelf, tear it down
to its component atoms and rebuild it with the type of love
& devotion that no mere mechanic can put into it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

<rickn> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Someone, please, talk me down before I jump . . .

I am tempted to buy a $500.00 frame (Specialized Allez
Comp CR-MO, or equal?), or a used frame, and build a bike.
I built my mountain bike from a bare frame and enjoyed the
experience. I already own most of the tools necessary.

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike. I am not
surprised at this, BUT:

What about purchasing used components? (ebay being the
most obvious source.)

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me $2000.00
to build BUT if I can buy a nice frame and assemble the
bike with "105" level (slightly used) components isn't it
possible that I might wind up with my own "custom"
configured ride that would cost close to that of a
complete new bike? And then NEXT YEAR I could start
upgrading components! (please?)

And here is another problem: If I build a bike I will not
be able to test ride. Is a lack of test ride enough reason
to toss this idea? It would seem that plenty of people
build their own bikes, do they know exactly what they want
for frame geometry before they start? (Or are these the
people selling frames and parts on ebay?)

Thanks

<rickn> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Someone, please, talk me down before I jump . . .

I am tempted to buy a $500.00 frame (Specialized Allez
Comp CR-MO, or equal?), or a used frame, and build a bike.
I built my mountain bike from a bare frame and enjoyed the
experience. I already own most of the tools necessary.

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike. I am not
surprised at this, BUT:

What about purchasing used components? (ebay being the
most obvious source.)

What's the difference between buying a used bike and
building a bike from used components? Buying a used bike is
an economical choice, building a bike only is if you already
have a lot of the parts. If you took a new bike, and
calculated the effect price of each component based on the
bike price, it's be *really* hard to get there, even with
super-sale prices. If you haven't already, try adding up
*all* the component individual prices to see what a home-
built bike costs, it's a learning experience.

I've found that the only way to build a bike cheaply is to
slowly build a stockpile of close-out parts, and upgraded
parts, then, when there's almost a bike, get a frame & build
it up. Of course then you have a bike made from odds & ends.
This is no way to build a "dream machine", but it's fun, and
the economics *almost* work.

rickn rickn said:

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike. I am not
surprised at this, BUT:

That depends on how much of the off-the-shelf bike you
actually want. If you have strong opinions about, say, the
type of handlebars you like, it may not be cheaper to get
the off-the-shelf machine if you have to buy loose
handlebars anyway...
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Rickn

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike. I am not
surprised at this, BUT:

What about purchasing used components? (ebay being the most
obvious source.)

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me $2000.00
to build BUT if I can buy a nice frame and assemble the bike
with "105" level (slightly used) components isn't it
possible that I might wind up with my own "custom"
configured ride that would cost close to that of a complete
new bike? And then NEXT YEAR I could start upgrading
components! (please?)

I've built five bikes from the frame up over the past three years. I have always managed to save at least a couple hundred dollars over the cost of the complete bike. Mind you, I did not buy anything at LBS prices. You have to do some research comparing prices of internet "shops" and include the shipping cost but, it pays off big. If you buy items that lose value dramtically after they have been used and people "need" to upgrade every year, like forks and wheelsets, you can save alot more.

Eric St. Mary

rickn said:

The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your own
bike is very expensive when compared to simply purchasing
a complete "off-the- shelf" bike.

Assuming you buy new components, your out-of-pocket costs
will be higher if you buy in pieces.

Quoted message said:

What about purchasing used components? (ebay being the
most obvious source.)

If you buy used parts, your out-of-pocket costs might be
comparable to or lower than a new bike with new components.
If you consider the cost of your time, the risk of getting
used parts that are unsatisfactory, plus a few hidden costs
(i.e. frame prep, if necessary), it's hard to imagine that
you will get by cheaper than a new bike.

On the other hand, if you enjoy putting together a bike and
consider the educational value of the process, the scales
may be tipped in favor of building the bike.

Quoted message said:

And then NEXT YEAR I could start upgrading components!
(please?)

I wouldn't recommend that. In the long haul you'll save
money, time, and frustration if you start with the
parts you want.

Quoted message said:

And here is another problem: If I build a bike I will not
be able to test ride. Is a lack of test ride enough reason
to toss this idea?

Can you test ride another bike with the same geometry?

Quoted message said:

It would seem that plenty of people build their own bikes,
do they know exactly what they want for frame geometry
before they start? (Or are these the people selling frames
and parts on ebay?)

A little of both, I'm sure.

I enjoy working on bikes in my spare time. I do more
tinkering in the winter. Now that the riding season is upon
us in the northern hemispher, I tend to ride and maintain my
bikes rather than tinker. I wouldn't buy a frame and
components at this time of year. Remember that shopping for
individual components will take a *lot* of time, especially
if you need to research compatibility issues.

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu

In article
<[email hidden]>,
rickn says...

Quoted message said:

Someone, please, talk me down before I jump . . .

I am tempted to buy a $500.00 frame (Specialized Allez Comp
CR-MO, or equal?), or a used frame, and build a bike. I
built my mountain bike from a bare frame and enjoyed the
experience. I already own most of the tools necessary.

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike. I am not
surprised at this, BUT:

What about purchasing used components? (ebay being the most
obvious source.)

Ebay takes more time and sometimes the prices are not so
great. I suggest the better place to shop is r.b.m or other
web sites that sell parts at great prices. I like checking
out www.chucksbikes.com when I need cheap parts.

Quoted message said:

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me $2000.00
to build BUT if I can buy a nice frame and assemble the
bike with "105" level (slightly used) components isn't it
possible that I might wind up with my own "custom"
configured ride that would cost close to that of a complete
new bike? And then NEXT YEAR I could start upgrading
components! (please?)

Bets thing would have been to buy at a swap meet last
fall/winter. That's when $1500 bikes were selling for
$1000, or less.

Quoted message said:

And here is another problem: If I build a bike I will not
be able to test ride. Is a lack of test ride enough reason
to toss this idea? It would seem that plenty of people
build their own bikes, do they know exactly what they want
for frame geometry before they start? (Or are these the
people selling frames and parts on ebay?)

It is best to know what size and geometry works best for
you. Otherwise you might end up having to get another frame.
---------------
Alex

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

The best reason for wanting to put it together a piece at a
time is for the experience of having done so, and the
feeling that you really know the machine you're riding on,
and can handle anything that comes your way. That's a great
reason for such a project! But you might also find it just
as satisfying to buy a new bike off the shelf, tear it down
to its component atoms and rebuild it with the type of love
& devotion that no mere mechanic can put into it.

Reminds me of an old bit of common wisdom regarding British
motorcycles (remember when there actually was a British
motorcycle industry?).

The reason they came assembled was because that was the best
way the factory could determine that all the parts were
included. Before being ridden it was wise to disassemble
them and then put them back together correctly.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

rickn said:

Someone, please, talk me down before I jump . . .

I am tempted to buy a $500.00 frame (Specialized Allez
Comp CR-MO, or equal?), or a used frame, and build a bike.
I built my mountain bike from a bare frame and enjoyed the
experience. I already own most of the tools necessary.

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike. I am not
surprised at this, BUT:

What about purchasing used components? (ebay being the
most obvious source.)

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me $2000.00
to build BUT if I can buy a nice frame and assemble the
bike with "105" level (slightly used) components isn't it
possible that I might wind up with my own "custom"
configured ride that would cost close to that of a
complete new bike? And then NEXT YEAR I could start
upgrading components! (please?)

And here is another problem: If I build a bike I will not
be able to test ride. Is a lack of test ride enough reason
to toss this idea? It would seem that plenty of people
build their own bikes, do they know exactly what they want
for frame geometry before they start? (Or are these the
people selling frames and parts on ebay?)

Thanks

Rick,

As many have pointed out, buying the components individually
(new) will cost more than buying a complete package. Others
describe the fun of building it as *you* want it,
possibility to get good used components at a low price, and
the fun of knowing it's truly *yours*.

For frame geometry, ride friends' bikes and see the range of
geometries you actually like. When it really comes down to
it, it's not as critical as some on this NG would make it
out to be. If it was, you wouldn't be asking the question
you do. But one still has to make sure that the fit is
correct (top tube length, etc) so you can ride long
distances both in comfort and at speed.

Back in the early 80's I swore I would not ride anything
slacker than 75 deg parallel because I liked the
"bright" handling that these bikes gave. I raced
criteriums back then. My current frame is a 74 deg seat,
71,5 head and I love it.

As far as the price issues goes - if you can find a complete
package that has almost exactly the components you want,
then buy it as it is and replace the few bits that you don't
like. But if you think you'll be swapping out half the
running gear within the first year or so, then it may well
be worthwhile going the individual component route. Used
gear is easy to get very cheap and in good condition. It
depends on how fussy you are.

I build my bikes from scratch - the only things I get the
LBS to do is face the head tube and mount the headset.
Centre bracket tube ends get faced by the LBS too, but then
I do the rest myself, including building wheels.

The reason I do this is I want to choose the frame, have
excellent wheel components, and buy the rest as cheap as
possible. I have yet to find a complete package that meets
my requirements.

My latest kit last year ended up being Campag Veloce gruppo
(cheap but it works fine) on Colnago alu frame. Training
wheels are ma3, veloce, straight 14g. My party wheels are
op, record, dt aero. Your priorities will differ but there's
nothing greater than the thrill of building your own ride.
It's also fun to buy and sell the running gear as you like.
Main thing is to have fun.

/Robert

John Everett said:

Reminds me of an old bit of common wisdom regarding British
motorcycles (remember when there actually was a British
motorcycle industry?).

Well, I haven't checked today, but I saw a new Triumph
yesterday...
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

rickn rickn said:

Someone, please, talk me down before I jump . . .

I like carnage. Jump!

Quoted message said:

I am tempted to buy a $500.00 frame (Specialized Allez Comp
CR-MO, or equal?), or a used frame, and build a bike. I
built my mountain bike from a bare frame and enjoyed the
experience. I already own most of the tools necessary.

Sounds like a good plan, then.

Quoted message said:

BUT: The unanimous bike-shop opinion is that building your
own bike is very expensive when compared to simply
purchasing a complete "off-the- shelf" bike. I am not
surprised at this, BUT:

Building your own bike requires lots of parts-sourcing work
to get it cheaper than off-the-shelf-bike, but if you're
willing to do the work, it can work out.

Quoted message said:

What about purchasing used components? (ebay being the most
obvious source.)

Used and bargain new components. froogle.google.com
www.bestbikebuys.com www.qbike.com

Quoted message said:

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me $2000.00
to build BUT if I can buy a nice frame and assemble the
bike with "105" level (slightly used) components isn't it
possible that I might wind up with my own "custom"
configured ride that would cost close to that of a

A new bike with 105 components shouldn't cost $1500. MSRP on
the aforementioned Allez Comp Cr-Mo with all Ultegra is
$1680 and probably below $1500 in stores.

Quoted message said:

complete new bike? And then NEXT YEAR I could start
upgrading components! (please?)

You might want to do it with a frame that you don't pay $500
for, or at least a really very nice frame that you get at a
bargain for $500.

Quoted message said:

And here is another problem: If I build a bike I will not
be able to test ride. Is a lack of test ride enough reason
to toss this idea? It

No. It didn't stop you from building your mtb; are you
satisfied with that project?

Quoted message said:

would seem that plenty of people build their own bikes, do
they know exactly what they want for frame geometry before
they start? (Or are

Probably.

Quoted message said:

these the people selling frames and parts on ebay?)

Probably.
--
Rick Onanian

In article <[email hidden]>,

rickn rickn said:

What about purchasing used components? (ebay being the most
obvious source.)

There's a lot available on ebay, but it usually goes for
what it's worth--simply because exposure is wide and anybody
who wants something is watching for it.

When I built up my bike (new frame, mix of new and used
parts) I found that I tended to try one part and then change
my mind, or buy parts as I saw them cheap, thinking I'd
eventually need them for the bike. The result was that I
ended up with 2 or 3 duplicates for every part that actually
went on the bike.

So I don't think I saved a whole lot of money by doing it
this way. But I had a lot of fun, and I try to deal some of
my leftover parts to help fund further adventures. If it's
something you want to do, go for it.

Quoted message said:

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me
$2000.00 to build

This is unlikely to happen. You're far more likely to end up
with a $1000 bike that costs you $2000 to build.

Quoted message said:

BUT if I can buy a nice frame and assemble the bike with
"105" level (slightly used) components isn't it possible
that I might wind up with my own "custom" configured ride
that would cost close to that of a complete new bike? And
then NEXT YEAR I could start upgrading components!
(please?)

The best approach is to buy not just the frame you want, but
the whole bike. Then swap out parts as whimsy dictates and
funds allow. Whole bikes tend to be bargains on ebay,
relatively speaking, especially in the winter, and nice
Japanese or Taiwanese lugged steel bikes usually go for
reasonable prices.

Quoted message said:

And here is another problem: If I build a bike I will not
be able to test ride. Is a lack of test ride enough reason
to toss this idea? It would seem that plenty of people
build their own bikes, do they know exactly what they want
for frame geometry before they start? (Or are these the
people selling frames and parts on ebay?)

Sometimes there's no substitute for trial and error. I sell
bikes because they don't fit me, or because I'm done with it
and want something different.

--
---
"I never had to pretend I felt the lyrics. I could always
relate to the words."
-- Teddy Pendergrass

I just went through this experience. The bike shops are
right. It would probably be more economical to buy a
complete bike with your choice of components, and remount
them on your frame, rather than buying the individual parts.

I started out with a 1984 Trek 620 touring frame that I
purchased used. By the time I was done, it cost me about
$1,300 for the complete bike with Ultegra STI, Deore XT
rear, Ultregra front, and a truvative crank.

I could have bought numerous new touring bikes for this
price. I did it for the experience of building a bike while
I took a bike mechanics course. Would I do it again, no. I
ended up taking all the components off, selling the Trek
Frame and installing them on a new Rambouillet frame. (I
never liked the color of the Trek, and to repaint and re-
decal it, would have cost me 1/2 of the new Rambouillet
(which is much nicer and lighter).

I recently sought out the ebay route to find some upgraded parts for my off the shelf bike. I ended up finding pleny of deals on new equipment on ebay, that was ordered online, and the recipient didn't like the fit (presumable because he had never really seen it before) or at the LBS.

I purchased a slightly used Ultegra kit that fit my riding far better that the 105 group that came with my bike. Turns out the LBS ordered a double Ultegra group for some guy, installed it, including
FlightDeck. Well to make the story short, the order was for a triple set, and everything came off the bike and sat in the shop unadvertised and was sold at about 50+% from retail.

Look around, and scrounge ebay and a few bike shops for parts, if you know what you want specifically. I did and ended up with a bike that fit better and shaved several pounds from the total weight.

David Damerell said:

John Everett

Quoted message said:

Reminds me of an old bit of common wisdom regarding
British motorcycles (remember when there actually was a
British motorcycle industry?).

Well, I haven't checked today, but I saw a new Triumph
yesterday...

followed immediately by a Norton, a BSA, a Vincent, an
Ariel, a Brough-Superior, a Matchless, an Excelsior, a Royal
Enfield, a Scott, etc., etc...

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

One easy option is to buy a buildkit. This guy will sell you an
ultegra buildkit with pretty nice parts for $925:

gvhbikes.comgvhbikes.comOpen ↗

Probably not much cheaper than buying as part of a complete
bike, but not much more expensive either. Plus you may have
more flexibility to customize the parts.

rickn <rickn> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me $2000.00
to build BUT if I can buy a nice frame and assemble the
bike with "105" level (slightly used) components isn't it
possible that I might wind up with my own "custom"
configured ride that would cost close to that of a
complete new bike? And then NEXT YEAR I could start
upgrading components! (please?)

Rick,

You can save a lot of money by building your own, if:
- you know what you want, and what fits you
- you know what components will work with the frame
- you are willing to search for deals on components
- you have adequate tools and mechanical ability/knowledge

Here is an example of a bike I build last summer:

Trek 5500 frame: $900 (previous year's, eBay)

Dura Ace (all new): crankset $177 (eBay) BB $35 (online
shop) cassette (12-27) $71 (online shop) chain $18 (online
shop) rear der $58 (online shop) front der $34 (online shop)
STI levers $190 (online shop) brakeset $127 (eBay)

Other components (all new): wheels $230 (DA hubs, build to
spec by LBS) seatpost $85 (USE Alien carbon, LBS) saddle $60
(Sella Italia SLR, eBay) handlebar $60 (TTT Prima, LBS) stem
$90 (Ritchie WCS, LBS) headset $90 (Chris King, online shop)
fork $230 (Ouzo Pro, LBS) tires (2) $70 (Mich Pro Race,
online shop)

Bike weighs about 16.5 lbs (size 60cm). Total was about
$2600, I believe the Trek 5500 sold last year for about
$4300. This is pretty much my experience with savings on
every build.

Alan

"Alan Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

rickn <rickn> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do not want to own a $1500.00 bike that cost me
$2000.00 to build BUT if I can buy a nice frame and
assemble the bike with "105" level (slightly used)
components isn't it possible that I might wind up with
my own "custom" configured ride that would cost close to
that of a complete new bike? And then NEXT YEAR I could
start upgrading components! (please?)

Rick,

You can save a lot of money by building your own, if:
- you know what you want, and what fits you
- you know what components will work with the frame
- you are willing to search for deals on components
- you have adequate tools and mechanical
ability/knowledge

Here is an example of a bike I build last summer:

Trek 5500 frame: $900 (previous year's, eBay)

Is this frame new? If not, no warranty!