Free digital maps

Paul said:

If anyone needs digital maps for GPS software such as GPS
Utility, here is a way I got a digital chart, spanning
the whole of the lake district. (I am pretty sure I'm not
infringing OS Copyright, as long as I do not distribute
to anyone.)

Oh but you are. But I won't tell. :-)

Quoted message said:

I used Adobe Photoshop to piece together the various
map sections, but any good graphics software should do
the trick

Ok, here's how I done it.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Although probably been done already

Grandma eggs and sucking spring to mind.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(I

am pretty sure I'm not infringing OS Copyright, as long
as I do not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

distribute to anyone.)

Oh but you are. But I won't tell. :-)

I cant see how I could be infringing OS Copyright. They
provide a link to a print friendly version,(obviously for
printing maps for personal use) all I am doing is digitally
selotaping all the printouts together. Please explain why ?

Paul

"Phil Cook" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul said:

If anyone needs digital maps for GPS software such as GPS
Utility, here

is a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way I got a digital chart, spanning the whole of the lake
district. (I am pretty sure I'm not infringing OS
Copyright, as long as I do not distribute to anyone.)

Oh but you are. But I won't tell. :-)

Quoted message said:

I used Adobe Photoshop to piece together the various map
sections, but

any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

good graphics software should do the trick

Ok, here's how I done it.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Although probably been done already

Grandma eggs and sucking spring to mind.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster
Gasworks"

Paul said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(I am pretty sure I'm not infringing OS Copyright,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh but you are. But I won't tell. :-)

I cant see how I could be infringing OS Copyright. They
provide a link to a print friendly version,(obviously for
printing maps for personal use) all I am doing is
digitally selotaping all the printouts together. Please
explain why ?

Just read the conditions;

"This compilation is a copyright work. © BTex Ltd
1997,1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003.

A single print of the results of a map search is permitted
for your own personal use. Otherwise the reproduction,
copying, downloading, storage, recording, broadcasting,
retransmission and distribution of any part of the Streetmap
site is not permitted."

Paul
--
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Quoted message said:

"This compilation is a copyright work. © BTex Ltd
1997,1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003.

A single print of the results of a map search is permitted
for your own personal use. Otherwise the reproduction,
copying, downloading, storage, recording, broadcasting,
retransmission and distribution of any part of the
Streetmap site is not permitted."

I don't think you will be imprisoned for life.

Theo

Paul said:

I cropped each piece at the grid lines for accurate
alignment to adjoining sections, when aligning the
sections I zoomed to almost pixel level for accuracy,

Far easier to create a grid and "snap" to it.

Paul
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Paul Saunders said:

Paul said:

Quoted message said:

> (I am pretty sure I'm not infringing OS Copyright,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh but you are. But I won't tell. :-)

I cant see how I could be infringing OS Copyright. They
provide a link to a print friendly version,(obviously for
printing maps for personal use) all I am doing is
digitally selotaping all the printouts together. Please
explain why ?

Quoted message said:

Just read the conditions;

Quoted message said:

"This compilation is a copyright work. BTex Ltd
1997,1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003.

Quoted message said:

A single print of the results of a map search is permitted
for your own personal use. Otherwise the reproduction,
copying, downloading, storage, recording, broadcasting,
retransmission and distribution of any part of the
Streetmap site is not permitted."

Hmmm.

Hmmmmmmmm....

Looks to me as though the above would permit you to
print, crop, and sellotape the results together with real
paper, real scissors, real sellotape, etc., but the OS
would like you to think it does permit you to do it
virtually with a computer.

But it really depends on what "printing" means.

Suppose for example I printed my OS page to a print file?
That's ok because it's simply an intermediate stage in
moving the image to a printer. And I print another to
another print file. And then I concatenate the print files.
That should be ok, because it's simply an intermediate stage
in moving the images to the big A1 printer I'm saving up
for, which will save me the tedium of sellotaping A4 prints
together. And of course it's still all part of the process
of printing for my own personal use.

And so on.

We must be careful to distinguish between what the OS would
like us to believe the law permits them, and what it
actually permits them. So far they seem to have made their
case simply by frightening people off with the threat of
expensive lawsuits. Has their interpretation actually been
put to the test in a court of law?
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Quoted message said:

A single print of the results of a map search is permitted
for your own personal use. Otherwise the reproduction,
copying, downloading, storage, recording, broadcasting,
retransmission and distribution of any part of the
Streetmap site is not permitted."

If this holds weight in law, then we're all in trouble. What
is a "temporary internet file" that Internet Explorer has if
it's not *storage*? What is *downloading* if it's not data
transferred from the streetmap server to the internet
browsers on our computers? And finally, what is *copying* if
it's not the transfer of a streetmap website from your
computer memory to your hard disk memory cache?

The simple fact is that we're all technically in breach of
the above statement if we so much as look at streetmap on
our computers. I don't know much about copyright law - in
particular any laws on *fair use*. But to my mind, so long
as we're not re-distributing the content then we're not
doing wrong - or are we?

Anthony Dyer

I totally agree with your comments, that is why I do not
believe I am actually doing anything wrong unlike people who
scan the maps they purchase, now that is clearly an
infringement of copyright.

"Anthony Dyer" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A single print of the results of a map search is
permitted for your own personal use. Otherwise the
reproduction, copying, downloading, storage, recording,
broadcasting, retransmission and distribution of any
part of the Streetmap site is not permitted."

If this holds weight in law, then we're all in trouble.
What is a "temporary internet file" that Internet Explorer
has if it's not

*storage*?

Quoted message said:

What is *downloading* if it's not data transferred from
the streetmap

server

Quoted message said:

to the internet browsers on our computers? And finally,
what is *copying* if it's not the transfer of a streetmap
website from your computer memory

to

Quoted message said:

your hard disk memory cache?

The simple fact is that we're all technically in breach of
the above statement if we so much as look at streetmap on
our computers. I don't

know

Quoted message said:

much about copyright law - in particular any laws on *fair
use*. But to

my

Quoted message said:

mind, so long as we're not re-distributing the content
then we're not

doing

Quoted message said:

wrong - or are we?

Anthony Dyer

Please explain the difference between scanning a map and
downloading a map. Seems to me one and the same thing, just
a different way of achieving the same end.

Mike Mason

"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I totally agree with your comments, that is why I do not
believe I am actually doing anything wrong unlike people
who scan the maps they

purchase,

Quoted message said:

now that is clearly an infringement of copyright.

"Anthony Dyer" <[email hidden]>
wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A single print of the results of a map search is
permitted for your

own

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

personal use. Otherwise the reproduction, copying,
downloading,

storage,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

recording, broadcasting, retransmission and
distribution of any part

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the Streetmap site is not permitted."

If this holds weight in law, then we're all in trouble.
What is a "temporary internet file" that Internet
Explorer has if it's not

*storage*?

Quoted message said:

What is *downloading* if it's not data transferred from
the streetmap

server

Quoted message said:

to the internet browsers on our computers? And finally,
what is

*copying*

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if it's not the transfer of a streetmap website from
your computer

memory

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

your hard disk memory cache?

The simple fact is that we're all technically in breach
of the above statement if we so much as look at
streetmap on our computers. I don't

know

Quoted message said:

much about copyright law - in particular any laws on
*fair use*. But to

my

Quoted message said:

mind, so long as we're not re-distributing the content
then we're not

doing

Quoted message said:

wrong - or are we?

Anthony Dyer

quote

Quoted message said:

A single print of the results of a map search is permitted
for your own personal use. Otherwise the reproduction,
copying, downloading, storage, recording, broadcasting,
retransmission and distribution of any part of the
Streetmap site is not permitted."

unquote

so it appears that everyone who uses streetmap.co.uk are
infringing the copyright

I have paid my dues to OS by purchasing the maps and am not
willing to purchase them again just so I can have exactly
the same thing but on digital media.

time to end this conversation I think, I only posted because
I though it would be both legal and useful to some members
of this group but all I have read is people quoting
copyright infringements, so i am a criminal, because I
compiled all the pieces of map on my hard drive, (wasn't I a
criminal by just looking at the maps from my browser Cache)
well I wont be loosing any sleep over it.

"Mike Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Please explain the difference between scanning a map and
downloading a

map.

Quoted message said:

Seems to me one and the same thing, just a different way
of achieving the same end.

Mike Mason

"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I totally agree with your comments, that is why I do not
believe I am actually doing anything wrong unlike people
who scan the maps they

purchase,

Quoted message said:

now that is clearly an infringement of copyright.

"Anthony Dyer" <anthony@DELETETHISmountain-
walking.org.uk> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> A single print of the results of a map search is
> permitted for your

own

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> personal use. Otherwise the reproduction, copying,
> downloading,

storage,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> recording, broadcasting, retransmission and
> distribution of any part

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> the Streetmap site is not permitted."

If this holds weight in law, then we're all in
trouble. What is a "temporary internet file" that
Internet Explorer has if it's not

*storage*?

Quoted message said:

What is *downloading* if it's not data transferred
from the streetmap

server

Quoted message said:

to the internet browsers on our computers? And
finally, what is

*copying*

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if it's not the transfer of a streetmap website from
your computer

memory

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

your hard disk memory cache?

The simple fact is that we're all technically in
breach of the above statement if we so much as look at
streetmap on our computers. I

don't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

know

Quoted message said:

much about copyright law - in particular any laws on
*fair use*. But

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my

Quoted message said:

mind, so long as we're not re-distributing the content
then we're not

doing

Quoted message said:

wrong - or are we?

Anthony Dyer

Paul said:

I only posted because I though it would be both legal and
useful to some members of this group

As you may or may not have realised, you're not the first
person to have suggested this, so the idea isn't new, but
thanks anyway for your post, we know it was well-
intentioned.

However, you made the mistake of saying that you were pretty
sure you weren't infringing copyright, but unfortunately you
are, so someone was bound to comment on that.

Quoted message said:

but all I have read is people quoting copyright
infringements,

Well you asked for it. You said; "I cant see how I could
be infringing OS Copyright", so I quoted the copyright
terms for you.

Quoted message said:

so i am a criminal, because I compiled all the pieces of
map on my hard drive,

You're not the only one. Many think the copyright terms are
pretty stupid. It's a widely held belief that the Ordnance
Survey are overly protective about their copyright, so any
mention of it is bound to open a can of worms. A while back
someone wrote a program to compile these maps automatically
and got into trouble with the OS because of it.

Quoted message said:

(wasn't I a criminal by just looking at the maps from my
browser Cache) well I wont be loosing any sleep over it.

Few do.

Paul
--
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"Mike Mason" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Please explain the difference between scanning a map and
downloading a

map.

Quoted message said:

Seems to me one and the same thing, just a different way
of achieving the same end.

Downloading a map is like buying a newspaper, scanning a map
is like reading a newspaper and printing a map is like
duplicating a newspaper. ( is it ? ,
:-)

Theo

In a recent message <[email hidden]>,
Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I only posted because I though it would be both legal and
useful to some members of this group

As you may or may not have realised, you're not the first
person to have suggested this, so the idea isn't new, but
thanks anyway for your post, we know it was well-
intentioned.

[...]

Two Pauls, tricky. To Paul S, do you think it would be
unethical to mention the Z=4 hack to the other Paul? <g>

Regards, Nick.

--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England
<[email hidden]

Chris Malcolm said:

But it really depends on what "printing" means.

Of course, but is suspect they are using the word to mean
printing directly to a printer, but they don't clarify that.

Quoted message said:

Suppose for example I printed my OS page to a print file?

I suspect that subtle distinction has eluded them.

Quoted message said:

We must be careful to distinguish between what the OS
would like us to believe the law permits them, and what it
actually permits them. So far they seem to have made their
case simply by frightening people off with the threat of
expensive lawsuits.

Good point.

Paul
--
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photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Anthony Dyer said:

Quoted message said:

A single print of the results of a map search is
permitted for your own personal use. Otherwise the
reproduction, copying, downloading, storage, recording,
broadcasting, retransmission and distribution of any part
of the Streetmap site is not permitted."

If this holds weight in law, then we're all in trouble.
What is a "temporary internet file" that Internet Explorer
has if it's not *storage*?

Exactly.

Quoted message said:

What is *downloading* if it's not data transferred from
the streetmap server to the internet browsers on our
computers?

Exactly.

Quoted message said:

And finally, what is *copying* if it's not the transfer of
a streetmap website from your computer memory to your hard
disk memory cache?

Exactly.

Quoted message said:

The simple fact is that we're all technically in breach of
the above statement if we so much as look at streetmap on
our computers.

Yep. But it's pretty obvious that's not the meaning they
intend to convey. They've written their conditions in a
simple manner which most people will understand the
*intention* of, but if they want those conditions to be
legally upholdable they'll need to rewrite them in a far
more complex manner, giving precise definitions of each of
the terms used.

Quoted message said:

I don't know much about copyright law - in particular any
laws on *fair use*. But to my mind, so long as we're not
re-distributing the content then we're not doing wrong -
or are we?

I don't think they are interested in "fair use", they just
don't want us to copy them in any way whatsoever, even if
it's only for our own use, which is just plain daft IMO.

Paul
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Paul said:

I totally agree with your comments, that is why I do not
believe I am actually doing anything wrong unlike people
who scan the maps they purchase, now that is clearly an
infringement of copyright.

Now that seems to be the wrong way around to me. To scan a
map you have to buy it first, yet if you download a map it
costs you nothing. Yet you seem to be saying that those who
spend money on maps to scan them are breaking the law but
those who download them for nothing aren't?

Irrespective of the actual copyright rules, scanning your
own maps for your own use seems harmless, especially since
you've actually paid for them! it's not like you're going to
be able to make prints and sell them.

Paul
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Mike Mason said:

Please explain the difference between scanning a map and
downloading a map.

One is expensive and difficult, the other is free and easy.

Paul
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Nick Hopton said:

Two Pauls, tricky. To Paul S, do you think it would be
unethical to mention the Z=4 hack to the other Paul? <g>

May be a bit late now, but hey other Paul, have you tried
changing Z=3 to Z=4? Works best if you change your monitor
to a higher res like 1280 x 1024. Saves a lot of time.

Paul
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Well to preserve the paper copies from field mangling, I
know of someone who has all unbagged marilyns dumped from
Streetmap and filed., ready for use. No more forgotten
map blues.

Poor deluded sod has several grands worth of OS paper in
various parts of various houses too.

Richard Webb