Fasting and Type I

Dan, I don't know why a T1 wouldn't be able to fast. I would
think that the biggest problem would be lowering your
insulin to a point that would keep you from going hypo,
while using enough to keep your sugars from going way too
high. You would have to be prepared to break the fast with
either glucose tablets or some other sort of fast acting
carbs in case of a hypo.

I've been T1 for 21 years, but I have never fasted. I do not
have any first hand experiences to share with you.

Steph

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Quoted message said:

Is fasting really that dangerous for a type I?

What problems can befall a fasting type I if they follow
the following rules?

1) Take glucose as needed to maintain BG levels
2) Keep well hydrated and take proper electrolytes and
vitamins
3) Test often

I'm aware that ketoacidosis is the main concern, but as
long as BG is good and electrolytes/hydration is fine, how
much more dangerous is it than skipping a few meals? I'm
talking about a 1-2 week fast, not a hunger strike.

Dan

Quoted message said:

Is fasting really that dangerous for a type I?

What problems can befall a fasting type I if they follow
the following rules?

1) Take glucose as needed to maintain BG levels
2) Keep well hydrated and take proper electrolytes and
vitamins
3) Test often

I'm aware that ketoacidosis is the main concern, but as
long as BG is good and electrolytes/hydration is fine, how
much more dangerous is it than skipping a few meals? I'm
talking about a 1-2 week fast, not a hunger strike.

Dan

Can't answer your question, although if you google I think
you'll find lots of answers from pre-ramadan last year.

And if religion is the reason, you'll find all the majors
excuse fasting on medical grounds.

I can't personally see any reason why a rational person, let
alone a diabetic (either type) would fast for two weeks.

But I can't see any logical reasons for bungy jumping, or
sky-diving, or taking narcotics either. It's your life to
risk. Just try not to take any others with you.

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

[email hidden] wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Is fasting really that dangerous for a type I?

What problems can befall a fasting type I if they follow
the following rules?

1) Take glucose as needed to maintain BG levels
2) Keep well hydrated and take proper electrolytes and
vitamins
3) Test often

I'm aware that ketoacidosis is the main concern, but as
long as BG is good and electrolytes/hydration is fine, how
much more dangerous is it than skipping a few meals? I'm
talking about a 1-2 week fast, not a hunger strike.

Dan

Ketoacidosis is caused by a shortage of insulin not a
shortage of food.

If you fast, your body will convert fat and muscle into
energy sources.

I'm fairly certain that you will generate ketones but that
is not the same as ketoacidosis.

This will give you a golden opportunity to totally fine
tune your basal insulin doses. Of course, if your basal is
not fairly well tuned before you start, expect some
problems. If you don't understand your basal now, you will
after your fast. (I don't think many T1 really understand
their basal routines)

Stock up on strips, test often, keep good records,
understand your basal insulin activity profile.

Umm. . .make certain somebody is checking on your safety,
especially if you are using NPH as a basal.

Be conversant with the symptoms of DKA, e.g.

embbs.comdiagn.htmlOpen ↗

"History and Physical:

Patients with DKA usually present with complaint of fatigue,
malaise, thirst, and polyuria. Depending on the length of
symptoms the patient may be able to report weight loss. As
the patient becomes increasingly ill they may begin to vomit
and complain of abdominal pain. The exact cause of abdominal
pain that is associated with DKA is not known. The abdominal
pain is disturbing since it may be secondary to the DKA, or
be from the pathologic process that initiated the crisis,
such as pyelonephritis, pancreatitis, etc. Usually,
abdominal pain secondary to DKA will begin to resolve with
tre atment.

The physical signs of DKA can be variable. Most patients
will have some degree of tachycardia, but the blood pressure
is often normal. Evidence of dehydration, such as loss of
skin turgor, and dry mucus membranes may be present. The
patient may be febrile, and extreme elevations of
temperature should not be assumed to be the result of
dehydration. Hypothermia may also be seen. . ."

Regards
Old Al

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Quoted message said:

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<snip>

Quoted message said:

I'm fairly certain that you will generate ketones but that
is not the same as ketoacidosis.

That was my understanding, I assume the many admonishments
against fasting for type Is is based on the assumption that
the IDDMer is on long acting insulins.

Quoted message said:

This will give you a golden opportunity to totally fine
tune your basal insulin doses. Of course, if your basal is
not fairly well tuned before you start, expect some
problems. If you don't understand your basal now, you will
after your fast. (I don't think many T1 really understand
their basal routines)

Thanks for the response. I just wanted to make sure my
kidneys wouldn't explode after 2 days 😉.

This was one reason I'd like to pursue a few days of
fasting. I'm on a pump and it would be a great way to really
fine tune my basals (assuming no drastic weight loss during
the tuning). It always irked me that nobody would come out
and say that fasting is the best way to tune your basals,
but it seems rather obvious. I test ~ 8 - 10X a day, and am
in good health otherwise, and was planning to use glucose as
needed to prevent lows, then bolus for highs. Anyone know of
a good sugar-free electrolyte broth for fasting?

Dan

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"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is fasting really that dangerous for a type I?

It depends on how long the fasting goes on for.

Quoted message said:

What problems can befall a fasting type I if they follow
the following rules?

1) Take glucose as needed to maintain BG levels
2) Keep well hydrated and take proper electrolytes and
vitamins
3) Test often

I'm aware that ketoacidosis is the main concern, but as
long as BG is good and electrolytes/hydration is fine, how
much more dangerous is it than skipping a few meals? I'm
talking about a 1-2 week fast, not a hunger strike.

Well if you're scoffing glucose tabs, you're not fasting
are you? We could LIVE on glucose tabs and water if we
chose to, although it'd be a boring and possibly dangerous
existance. If our BG's are where they should be, it doesn't
really matter HOW they get (and stay) there, and if we're
drinking sufficient water to keep ourselves hydrated, we
shouldn't have any problems in that area, but again, that's
not fasting.

I doubt "Survivor" would allow you to have glucose tabs
though cos z it's pure food. Eat them bugs:-)

Beav

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Quoted message said:

"oldal4865" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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. . .(snip). . .

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the response. I just wanted to make sure my
kidneys wouldn't explode after 2 days 😉.

This was one reason I'd like to pursue a few days of
fasting. I'm on a pump and it would be a great way to
really fine tune my basals (assuming no drastic weight loss
during the tuning). It always irked me that nobody would
come out and say that fasting is the best way to tune your
basals, but it seems rather obvious. I test ~ 8 - 10X a
day, and am in good health otherwise, and was planning to
use glucose as needed to prevent lows, then bolus for
highs. Anyone know of a good sugar-free electrolyte broth
for fasting?

Dan

When you wander through the Diabetes literature, the
older books and the magazines, you often encounter strong
prohibitions and dire warnings about this and that and
the other with no rationale given. Often, the advice
doesn't make sense when applied to folks using the more
modern insulin regimes but does make sense if you assume
one of the older R + NPH regimes.

In your case, I'll bet that if you tried something like
this while on a one of those minimum-number-of-injections-NPH-
basal regimes, you would be asking for a trip to the
Emergency room about 6 hours after your whopping large,
morning NPH basal shot.

OTH, I agree with you, total fast is the best way to tune a
pumper's basal with the caveat that a Dawn Effect can be
modified by the mere presence of food in your belly (as I
understand the T2-trick of "fooling" the liver with low carb
snacks as a Dawn Effect/Morning Effect tool).

Bernstein recommends 18 hour or so fasts for setting basals
but I can't quote him nowadays, (I gave my copy away again).

Good luck. (No ideas here about electrolyes)

Regards
Old Al

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Quoted message said:

"oldal4865" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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<snip>

Quoted message said:

I'm fairly certain that you will generate ketones but
that is not the

same

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as ketoacidosis.

That was my understanding, I assume the many admonishments
against fasting for type Is is based on the assumption
that the IDDMer is on long acting insulins.

Quoted message said:

This will give you a golden opportunity to totally fine
tune your basal insulin doses. Of course, if your basal
is not fairly well tuned

before

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you start, expect some problems. If you don't understand
your basal

now,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you will after your fast. (I don't think many T1 really
understand

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

basal routines)

Thanks for the response. I just wanted to make sure my
kidneys wouldn't explode after 2 days 😉.

Keep them "liquified" with plenty of fresh water and they
should be fine.

Quoted message said:

This was one reason I'd like to pursue a few days of
fasting. I'm on a pump and it would be a great way to
really fine tune my basals (assuming no drastic weight
loss during the tuning).

That's a distinct possibility though isn't it? If we don't
wat, we certainly don't GAIN weight :-)

It always irked

Quoted message said:

me that nobody would come out and say that fasting is the
best way to tune your basals, but it seems rather obvious.

It is if you're talking about missing a meal or two, but go
beyond that and your body starts thinking beyond the next
meal and starts taking steps to maintain itself. This is
when (among other things) the liver does strange things and
you're likely to get strange rises in BG for no accountable
reason. Once we get into "starvation" mode, plotting
ANYTHING is going to be nothing less than guesswork.

I test ~ 8 - 10X a

Quoted message said:

day, and am in good health otherwise, and was planning to
use glucose as needed to prevent lows, then bolus for
highs. Anyone know of a good sugar-free electrolyte broth
for fasting?

Can't help you there Dan:-(

Beav