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Why we get Ker-knackered. Possibly.

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25 March 2004
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Mark Thompson
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  1. Just found this in last weeks new scientist. Should be
    useful for all you competitive types out there. Got a fair
    bit of relevence to cyclists. If you want to see it in its
    proper home try: archive.newscientist.comart
    icle/article.jsp?rp=1 &id=mg18124395.400 but it requires a
    free registration.

    Running on empty

    New Scientist vol 181 issue 2439 - 20 March 2004, page 42

    Your lungs are bursting and your muscles are screaming at
    you to stop. Can it really be possible that fatique is all
    in the mind? Rick Lovett reports

    TIMOTHY NOAKES will never forget the day he encountered the
    hill from hell. It was 1976 and he was running the gruelling
    Comrades Marathon, an annual 90-kilometre road race between
    Durban and Pietermaritzburg in South Africa. About 20
    kilometres from home he rounded a bend and saw a steep
    incline he hadn't known was there. Even before he started
    climbing, he suddenly began to feel overwhelmingly tired.

    At the time it was just a case of gritting his teeth. But
    Noakes, a professor of exercise physiology at the University
    of Cape Town, South Africa, soon came to see that hill as an
    intellectual mountain, too. Why had the very thought of it
    made him feel so tired?

    Conventional wisdom on muscle fatigue can't explain what
    happened that day. For the better part of a century,
    scientists and athletes have presumed, not unreasonably,
    that fatigue originates in the muscles themselves. Precise
    explanations have varied, but all have been based on the
    "limitations theory". In other words, muscles tire because
    they hit a physical limit: they either run out of fuel or
    oxygen or they drown in toxic by-products.

    In the past few years, however, Noakes and his colleague
    Alan St Clair Gibson have taken a hard look at the standard
    theory. The deeper they dig, the more convinced they have
    become that physical fatigue simply isn't the same as a car
    running out of petrol. Fatigue, they argue, is caused not by
    distress signals springing from overtaxed muscles, but is an
    emotional response which begins in the brain.

    The essence of their new theory is that the brain, using a
    mix of physiological, subconscious and conscious cues, paces
    the muscles to keep them well back from the brink of
    exhaustion. When the brain decides it's time to quit, it
    creates the distressing sensations we interpret as
    unbearable muscle fatigue. This "central governor" theory
    remains controversial, but it does explain many puzzling
    aspects of athletic performance, as well as suggesting some
    revolutionary approaches to training and offering
    tantalising hints as to the cause and maybe even the cure of
    chronic fatigue syndrome.

    The hill from hell might have set Noakes thinking about
    fatigue, but it was a more recent discovery that made him
    start researching it in earnest. He calls this the
    "lactic acid paradox". Lactic acid is a by-product of
    exercise, and its build-up is often cited as a cause of
    fatigue. But when research subjects exercise in a
    decompression chamber designed to simulate high altitude,
    they become fatigued even though lactic acid levels
    remain low. Nor has the oxygen content of their blood
    fallen too low for them to keep going. Obviously, Noakes
    deduced, something else was making them tire well before
    they hit either physiological limit.

    Noakes and St Clair Gibson decided to probe further. For
    their first study, published in 2001 (American Journal of
    Physiology - Regulatory Integrative and Comparative
    Physiology, vol 281, p R187), they recruited seven
    experienced cyclists and asked them to pedal 100-kilometre
    time trials on stationary exercise bikes. On several
    occasions during the time trial, they asked the cyclists to
    sprint for 1000 or 4000 metres. Throughout the experiment,
    the cyclists wore electrical sensors taped to their legs to
    measure the nerve impulses travelling to their muscles.

    It has long been known that during exercise, the body never
    uses 100 per cent of the available muscle fibres in a single
    contraction. The amount used varies with the length of the
    endeavour, but in endurance tasks such as the cycling test
    the body calls on about 30 per cent, spreading the load by
    rotating in fresh ones as needed. And because separate nerve
    filaments send signals to each fibre, sports scientists can
    determine what fraction of the muscle is being used by
    measuring the electrical impulse travelling to it.

    Noakes reasoned that if the limitations theory was correct
    and fatigue was due to muscle fibres hitting some limit, the
    number of fibres used for each pedal stroke should increase
    as the fibres tired and the cyclist's body attempted to
    compensate by recruiting an ever-larger fraction of the
    total. But his team found exactly the opposite. As fatigue
    set in, the electrical activity in the cyclists' legs
    declined - even during the sprints, when they were striving
    to cycle as fast as they could.

    Plenty in the tank

    To Noakes, this was strong evidence that the old theory was
    wrong. The cyclists may have felt completely done in, he
    says, but their bodies actually had considerable reserves
    that they could theoretically tap by using a greater
    fraction of the resting fibres. This, he believes, is proof
    that the brain is regulating the pace of the workout to hold
    the cyclists well back from the point of catastrophic
    exhaustion.

    More evidence comes from the fact that fatigued muscles
    don't actually run out of anything critical. Muscle biopsies
    have shown that levels of glycogen, which is the muscles'
    primary fuel, and ATP, the chemical they use for temporary
    energy storage, decline with exercise but never bottom out.
    Even at the end of a marathon, ATP levels are 80 to 90 per
    cent of the resting norm. And while glycogen levels approach
    zero, they never get there. Post-marathon muscles also still
    have substantial reserves of other fuels, notably fat.

    Still more evidence in favour of the central regulator comes
    from observations of the closing stages of distance races.
    Top athletes almost always manage to go their fastest during
    the last kilometre of a race, even though, theoretically,
    that's when their muscles should be closest to exhaustion.
    In particular, Noakes says, the end spurt makes no sense if
    fatigue is caused by muscles poisoning themselves with
    lactic acid. If lactic acid build-up is the limiting factor,
    racers would progressively slow down and would find it
    impossible to sprint for the finish line.

    But with the central governor theory, the explanation is
    obvious. Knowing the end is near, the brain slightly relaxes
    its vigil and allows the athlete to tap a bit of the body's
    carefully hoarded reserves.

    But the central governor theory does not mean that what's
    happening in the muscles is irrelevant. The governor
    constantly monitors physiological signals from the muscles,
    along with other information, to set the level of fatigue. A
    large number of signals are probably involved, but the ones
    Noakes is most sure about include the body's remaining
    stores of carbohydrates, the levels of glucose and oxygen in
    the blood, the rates of heat generation and heat loss, and
    the rate at which muscles are working. Where the central
    governor theory differs from the limitations theory is that
    these physiological factors are not the direct determinants
    of fatigue - they are just information to take into account.

    Conscious factors can also intervene. Noakes believes that
    the central regulator evaluates the planned workout, and
    sets a pacing strategy accordingly. Experienced runners
    know, for example, that if they set out on a 10-kilometre
    training run, the first kilometre feels mysteriously easier
    than the first kilometre of a 5-kilometre run, even though
    there should be no difference. That, Noakes says, is because
    the central governor knows you have farther to go in the
    longer run and has programmed itself to dole out fatigue
    symptoms accordingly.

    This can be verified by putting people on treadmills and
    telling them they're going to run one distance when in fact
    you have another planned. When the subjects are given the
    real story midway through the test, their reported levels of
    fatigue suddenly adjust to account for the new information.

    It also explains Noakes's experience on the hill from hell.
    "The central governor had been pacing me for another 20
    kilometres," he says, "but it had presumed it was going to
    be flat. Now, it suddenly had to take the hill into account,
    and it forced me to slow down."

    St Clair Gibson believes there is a good reason why our
    bodies are designed to keep something back. That way,
    there's always something left in the tank for an emergency.
    In ancient times, an emergency might take the form of a lion
    or pack of wolves at the end of a long, gruelling hunt.
    Today, the "wolf" might be a mugger hiding in an alley, or a
    lightning storm near the end of a long hike. But the same
    concept applies: life would be too dangerous if our bodies
    allowed us to become so tired that we couldn't move quickly
    when faced with an unexpected need.

    Drugs and hypnosis

    The team also believes the central governor theory helps to
    explain why hypnosis helps block sensations of fatigue,
    allowing athletes to work harder. If fatigue were merely the
    result of hitting the muscles' physiological limits, this
    shouldn't be possible. But it is. Amphetamines have a
    similar effect, and again it could be down to the central
    governor. Blocking the sensation of fatigue with drugs,
    however, makes it much easier to work yourself to death.
    Normally, fatigue will force even the most iron-willed
    competitor to quit before they succumb to heatstroke, but
    this didn't happen for the British cyclist Tom Simpson, who
    died after taking amphetamine during the Tour de France in
    1967, the year before drug tests started. Ecstasy, Noakes
    adds, is an amphetamine-like substance that could have the
    same effect on clubbers.

    The theory could also help to unravel the mystery of chronic
    fatigue syndrome. Perhaps something has interfered with the
    brain's regulation of fatigue so that you always feel
    exhausted even though you are not. Successfully puzzling out
    the workings of the central governor might open the door to
    a long-awaited cure, Noakes suggests.

    St Clair Gibson and Noakes are presently trying to find
    where the central governor is located in the brain by
    studying the electroencephalograms (EEGs) of tiring
    cyclists. "We're finding that a lot of areas of the brain
    are involved," St Clair Gibson says, "but we haven't yet
    found the stop switch." However, the mix of such areas is
    interesting, and includes the frontal lobe (which is
    involved in decision making), the parietal lobe (which is
    involved in sensation), and, for some reason, the visual and
    speech centres.

    The central governor theory has found favour with other
    exercise physiologists. George Brooks at the University of
    California, Berkeley, for example, recently amended his
    textbook to include it. But for some it remains
    controversial.

    One critic is Jere Mitchell, a cardiologist at the
    University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas.
    He points to treadmill tests in which people run up ever-
    steeper slopes while having their oxygen consumption
    measured. Shortly before the subjects collapse in
    exhaustion, their oxygen consumption reaches a plateau
    beyond which it won't increase, no matter how hard they
    try to work.

    This maximum rate of oxygen consumption, called VO2 max, can
    be boosted by increasing the number of red blood cells in
    circulation - for example, by re-injecting blood that was
    taken several weeks earlier. This proves that fatigue has
    nothing to do with any central governor, Mitchell argues.
    Instead, it kicks in at the point at which the body has
    bumped into a very real physiological limit - the amount of
    oxygen the blood can transport.

    Peter Wagner of the University of California, San Diego,
    concurs. He has conducted treadmill tests in which athletes
    are tested under two different conditions: on normal air,
    and on pure oxygen. That is enough to produce an 8 to 10 per
    cent increase in the amount of oxygen going to the muscles,
    he says, producing a measurable increase the VO2 max in well-
    trained athletes.

    Noakes and St Clair Gibson, however, argue that the central
    governor theory can explain both studies. The brain, they
    say, senses the elevated amount of oxygen in the blood and
    then "resets" the pace to allow the athlete to work harder,
    while still maintaining a reserve. "So there is a ceiling of
    oxygen use," says St Clair Gibson, "but at a level decided
    by the brain, with a wide margin of reserve for error."

    If the central governor theory does prove to be correct, can
    coaches use it to improve athletes' performance? Noakes's
    experience on the Comrades Marathon underscores the
    importance of knowing the course beforehand - particularly
    its later stages. Top athletes and coaches figured that one
    out many years ago. In fact, says Brooks, trainers are often
    ahead of the science. "Coaches, by experience, have
    discovered things which scientists take longer to
    understand," he says. But Noakes argues that the central
    governor theory helps make sense of interval training, a
    "sharpening" technique in which athletes do repetitive bouts
    of high-intensity exercise interspersed with recovery breaks
    (see Graphic).

    In a recent experiment, Noakes took a group of cyclists who
    had never done intervals before and asked them to add them
    to their normal training, once or twice a week for six
    weeks. At the end of this programme the cyclists, who were
    fast recreational riders but not professional racers, had
    shaved a startling 15 minutes, or approximately 10 per cent,
    off their previous times on a 100-kilometre time trial.

    Similarly dramatic improvements are often observed when
    runners are introduced to interval training. Traditional
    theory says that the improvement is due to physiological
    changes in the muscle cells that make them better able to
    use oxygen or tolerate the build-up of metabolic waste
    products. But Noakes doesn't see how major physiological
    improvements can occur so quickly. And in any case, he says,
    interval training seems to induce very little, if any,
    biochemical change in the muscle. He believes that interval
    training works largely by teaching the central governor that
    going faster won't do you any harm.

    Perhaps, then, the central governor idea can be used to give
    athletes an important mental edge. Simply telling them that
    even when they are feeling completely exhausted their bodies
    actually have a lot in reserve should provide an incredible
    psychological boost, says St Clair Gibson. "When athletes
    know that," he says, "it's going to be exciting."

  2. "Mark Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Just found this in last weeks new scientist. Should be
    useful for all you competitive types out there. Got a fair
    bit of relevence to cyclists. If you want to see it in its
    proper home try: archive.newscientist.coma
    rticle/article.jsp?rp=1

    Thanks -read this at work this morning, as well as the
    interesting piece about what happened before the Big Bang.

    --
    Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W
    simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.net

  3. Quoted message said:

    Thanks -read this at work this morning, as well as the
    interesting piece about what happened before the Big Bang.


    What! Something happened BEFORE the big Bang?

    Isn't that contrary to all current
    cosmology/physics/whateever?
    i.e. "before" has no meaning 'cos the space-time continuum
    didn't exixt.

    Oh well, that's what "Q" & Trek does for you.

    Niv.

  4. Mark Thompson posted ...

    Quoted message said:

    Just found this in last weeks new scientist. Should be
    useful for all you competitive types out there. Got a fair
    bit of relevence to cyclists. If you want to see it in its
    proper home try: archive.newscientist.coma
    rticle/article.jsp?rp=1 &id=mg18124395.400 but it requires
    a free registration.

    That's a very interesting piece, especially the bit about
    how coaches have worked using this theory, but without
    really knowing why or how.

    Says a lot for the old adage of getting out what you put in
    as well .. check exactly what you're going to do and where
    the course is and _know_ you can do it before you start, and
    you're already partially there .. 😉

    Thanks .. 😉

    --
    Paul

    (8(|) Homer rocks .. 😉

  5. "Niv" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    Thanks -read this at work this morning, as well as
    the interesting piece about what happened before the
    Big Bang.


    What! Something happened BEFORE the big Bang?

    Isn't that contrary to all current
    cosmology/physics/whateever?
    i.e. "before" has no meaning 'cos the space-time continuum
    didn't exixt.

    Oh well, that's what "Q" & Trek does for you.

    I think the gist of it was that god was at a loose end
    scratching his [censored] and was bored with nobody to worship
    him. ;-) He only had to wait about 13 000 million years for
    us to evolve.

    Simon M.

  6. "Mark Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Just found this in last weeks new scientist. Should be
    useful for all you competitive types out there. Got a fair
    bit of relevence to cyclists. If you want to see it in its
    proper home try: archive.newscientist.coma
    rticle/article.jsp?rp=1 &id=mg18124395.400 but it requires
    a free registration.

    Running on empty

    New Scientist vol 181 issue 2439 - 20 March 2004, page 42

    Your lungs are bursting and your muscles are screaming at
    you to stop. Can it really be possible that fatique is all
    in the mind? Rick Lovett reports

    TIMOTHY NOAKES will never forget the day he encountered
    the hill from hell. It was 1976 and he was running the
    gruelling Comrades Marathon, an annual 90-kilometre road
    race between Durban and Pietermaritzburg in South Africa.
    About 20 kilometres from home he rounded a bend and saw a
    steep incline he hadn't known was there. Even before he
    started climbing, he suddenly began to feel
    overwhelmingly tired.

    At the time it was just a case of gritting his teeth. But
    Noakes, a professor of exercise physiology at the
    University of Cape Town, South Africa, soon came to see
    that hill as an intellectual mountain, too. Why had the
    very thought of it made him feel so tired?

    Conventional wisdom on muscle fatigue can't explain what
    happened that day. For the better part of a century,
    scientists and athletes have presumed, not unreasonably,
    that fatigue originates in the muscles themselves. Precise
    explanations have varied, but all have been based on the
    "limitations theory". In other words, muscles tire because
    they hit a physical limit: they either run out of fuel or
    oxygen or they drown in toxic by-products.

    In the past few years, however, Noakes and his colleague
    Alan St Clair Gibson have taken a hard look at the
    standard theory. The deeper they dig, the more convinced
    they have become that physical fatigue simply isn't the
    same as a car running out of petrol. Fatigue, they argue,
    is caused not by distress signals springing from
    overtaxed muscles, but is an emotional response which
    begins in the brain.

    The essence of their new theory is that the brain, using a
    mix of physiological, subconscious and conscious cues,
    paces the muscles to keep them well back from the brink of
    exhaustion. When the brain decides it's time to quit, it
    creates the distressing sensations we interpret as
    unbearable muscle fatigue. This "central governor" theory
    remains controversial, but it does explain many puzzling
    aspects of athletic performance, as well as suggesting
    some revolutionary approaches to training and offering
    tantalising hints as to the cause and maybe even the cure
    of chronic fatigue syndrome.

    The hill from hell might have set Noakes thinking about
    fatigue, but it was a more recent discovery that made him
    start researching it in earnest. He calls this the
    "lactic acid paradox". Lactic acid is a by-product of
    exercise, and its build-up is often cited as a cause of
    fatigue. But when research subjects exercise in a
    decompression chamber designed to simulate high altitude,
    they become fatigued even though lactic acid levels
    remain low. Nor has the oxygen content of their blood
    fallen too low for them to keep going. Obviously, Noakes
    deduced, something else was making them tire well before
    they hit either physiological limit.

    Noakes and St Clair Gibson decided to probe further. For
    their first study, published in 2001 (American Journal of
    Physiology - Regulatory Integrative and Comparative
    Physiology, vol 281, p R187), they recruited seven
    experienced cyclists and asked them to pedal 100-kilometre
    time trials on stationary exercise bikes. On several
    occasions during the time trial, they asked the cyclists
    to sprint for 1000 or 4000 metres. Throughout the
    experiment, the cyclists wore electrical sensors taped to
    their legs to measure the nerve impulses travelling to
    their muscles.

    It has long been known that during exercise, the body
    never uses 100 per cent of the available muscle fibres in
    a single contraction. The amount used varies with the
    length of the endeavour, but in endurance tasks such as
    the cycling test the body calls on about 30 per cent,
    spreading the load by rotating in fresh ones as needed.
    And because separate nerve filaments send signals to each
    fibre, sports scientists can determine what fraction of
    the muscle is being used by measuring the electrical
    impulse travelling to it.

    Noakes reasoned that if the limitations theory was correct
    and fatigue was due to muscle fibres hitting some limit,
    the number of fibres used for each pedal stroke should
    increase as the fibres tired and the cyclist's body
    attempted to compensate by recruiting an ever-larger
    fraction of the total. But his team found exactly the
    opposite. As fatigue set in, the electrical activity in
    the cyclists' legs declined - even during the sprints,
    when they were striving to cycle as fast as they could.

    Plenty in the tank

    To Noakes, this was strong evidence that the old theory
    was wrong. The cyclists may have felt completely done in,
    he says, but their bodies actually had considerable
    reserves that they could theoretically tap by using a
    greater fraction of the resting fibres. This, he believes,
    is proof that the brain is regulating the pace of the
    workout to hold the cyclists well back from the point of
    catastrophic exhaustion.

    More evidence comes from the fact that fatigued muscles
    don't actually run out of anything critical. Muscle
    biopsies have shown that levels of glycogen, which is the
    muscles' primary fuel, and ATP, the chemical they use for
    temporary energy storage, decline with exercise but never
    bottom out. Even at the end of a marathon, ATP levels are
    80 to 90 per cent of the resting norm. And while glycogen
    levels approach zero, they never get there. Post-marathon
    muscles also still have substantial reserves of other
    fuels, notably fat.

    Still more evidence in favour of the central regulator
    comes from observations of the closing stages of distance
    races. Top athletes almost always manage to go their
    fastest during the last kilometre of a race, even though,
    theoretically, that's when their muscles should be
    closest to exhaustion. In particular, Noakes says, the
    end spurt makes no sense if fatigue is caused by muscles
    poisoning themselves with lactic acid. If lactic acid build-
    up is the limiting factor, racers would progressively
    slow down and would find it impossible to sprint for the
    finish line.

    But with the central governor theory, the explanation is
    obvious. Knowing the end is near, the brain slightly
    relaxes its vigil and allows the athlete to tap a bit of
    the body's carefully hoarded reserves.

    But the central governor theory does not mean that what's
    happening in the muscles is irrelevant. The governor
    constantly monitors physiological signals from the
    muscles, along with other information, to set the level of
    fatigue. A large number of signals are probably involved,
    but the ones Noakes is most sure about include the body's
    remaining stores of carbohydrates, the levels of glucose
    and oxygen in the blood, the rates of heat generation and
    heat loss, and the rate at which muscles are working.
    Where the central governor theory differs from the
    limitations theory is that these physiological factors are
    not the direct determinants of fatigue - they are just
    information to take into account.

    Conscious factors can also intervene. Noakes believes that
    the central regulator evaluates the planned workout, and
    sets a pacing strategy accordingly. Experienced runners
    know, for example, that if they set out on a 10-kilometre
    training run, the first kilometre feels mysteriously
    easier than the first kilometre of a 5-kilometre run, even
    though there should be no difference. That, Noakes says,
    is because the central governor knows you have farther to
    go in the longer run and has programmed itself to dole out
    fatigue symptoms accordingly.

    This can be verified by putting people on treadmills and
    telling them they're going to run one distance when in
    fact you have another planned. When the subjects are given
    the real story midway through the test, their reported
    levels of fatigue suddenly adjust to account for the new
    information.

    It also explains Noakes's experience on the hill from
    hell. "The central governor had been pacing me for another
    20 kilometres," he says, "but it had presumed it was going
    to be flat. Now, it suddenly had to take the hill into
    account, and it forced me to slow down."

    St Clair Gibson believes there is a good reason why our
    bodies are designed to keep something back. That way,
    there's always something left in the tank for an
    emergency. In ancient times, an emergency might take the
    form of a lion or pack of wolves at the end of a long,
    gruelling hunt. Today, the "wolf" might be a mugger
    hiding in an alley, or a lightning storm near the end of
    a long hike.

    Wonderful. I get blown out because some mangy mongrel chased
    an ancestor. There must be someone I can sue!

    Seriously though, I'm not surprised at this. I've often
    wondered if my emotions have an impact on how well I cycle
    at any given time. If I'm happy then I'm better able to
    concentrate on pedal-rhythmn/wether I need a drink/cor that
    bird looks nice(!) etc. When I'm [censored] my legs feel
    about 90 tonnes!

    Hmm, require some thought on this...

    Pete White

  7. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Thanks -read this at work this morning, as well as
    the interesting piece about what happened before the
    Big Bang.


    What! Something happened BEFORE the big Bang?

    Isn't that contrary to all current
    cosmology/physics/whateever?
    i.e. "before" has no meaning 'cos the space-time continuum
    didn't exixt.

    Oh well, that's what "Q" & Trek does for you.

    Yeah, there's loads of different theories. People seem to be
    coming up with new ones all the time. AFAIK they are all
    entirely wrong apart from possibly one, which is probably
    only half wrong.

  8. On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:01:22 -0000, "Pete White"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Hmm, require some thought on this...

    Pete, please trim when replying.

    Thanks

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

  9. Quoted message said:

    Wonderful. I get blown out because some mangy mongrel
    chased an ancestor. There must be someone I can sue!

    That's nothing, I get knackered just scrolling to the bottom
    of your posts!

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously though, I'm not surprised at this. I've often
    wondered if my emotions have an impact on how well I cycle
    at any given time. If I'm happy then I'm better able to
    concentrate on pedal-rhythmn/wether I need a drink/cor
    that bird looks nice(!) etc. When I'm [censored] my legs
    feel about 90 tonnes!

    Hmm, require some thought on this...

    Dunno about being [censored], but when I'm a bit drunk I
    can run much further than normal before I start to feel
    tired. I really should do some experiments to see if there
    are performance benefits as well, though I can't imagine it
    being much cop for any endurance events - any benefits
    would be used up by popping into the bushes every couple of
    pints but it could be the incentive I need to get me
    jogging again.

  10. Not sure I understand the reasons why nor care for that
    matter but I have been convinced for years that it is
    possible to let a big hill or long ride out-physc one. If
    you think its going to be tough - it will be. I am convinced
    I go up hills better in the dark that when I can see what is
    ahead of me.

  11. On 25/3/04 7:44 pm, in article [email hidden],

    MSeries said:


    Not sure I understand the reasons why nor care for that
    matter but I have been convinced for years that it is
    possible to let a big hill or long ride out-physc one. If
    you think its going to be tough - it will be. I am
    convinced I go up hills better in the dark that when I can
    see what is ahead of me.

    I used to do a 16 mile commute and as with any commute in
    a remotely hilly place there is always The Hill. It is
    not particularly hard on paper but it always manages to
    psyche you out.

    It took several months before I knew that I could beat it
    any time and every time without having to stop. I'm pretty
    sure it was all in the mind.

    Likewise with my current bete noir, City Road in Dundee. It
    is quite steep but I know I can ride up it. Most of the time
    though I can't be arsed so I get off and walk. I'm sure it
    is all in the mind, but it does give me a chance to look
    through the fence and check on the allotment.

    ..d

  12. Mark Thompson <[email hidden]> wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Just found this in last weeks new scientist. Should be
    useful for all you competitive types out there. Got a fair
    bit of relevence to cyclists. If you want to see it in its
    proper home try: archive.newscientist.coma
    rticle/article.jsp?rp=1 &id=mg18124395.400 but it requires
    a free registration.

    Running on empty

    New Scientist vol 181 issue 2439 - 20 March 2004, page 42

    Very interesting thanks, makes sense of a lot of my own
    experiences. If I'm riding in an area I know well and thee's
    a hill near the end, it's hard work but I can still manage
    OK. But if there's a hill I didn't know was there, click
    click down into bottom gear, crawling along wishing for it
    to end (as per today - why did they put so many hills on the
    Wirral). Like someone has already mentioned as well, if I'm
    riding in the dark I find the whole ride far easier,
    possibly because I can't see my computer - when it's showing
    a slower speed I find myself urging myself on which surely
    doesn't help.

    Iain

  13. Niv said:

    What! Something happened BEFORE the big Bang?

    Certainly, Niv: the countdown.

    James

  14. James Hodson said:
    Niv said:

    What! Something happened BEFORE the big Bang?

    Certainly, Niv: the countdown.

    What's Carol Vorderman got to do with it?

    Tony

  15. Tony Raven said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What! Something happened BEFORE the big Bang?

    Certainly, Niv: the countdown.

    What's Carol Vorderman got to do with it?

    Eeeeek, I did hope that neither Carol nor Richard would be
    mentioned. So be it.

    James

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