General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Big Brains

Started by B Gilmour · · Last activity · 3 posts · 517 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
23 March 2004
Last activity
28 March 2004
Original author
B Gilmour
Posts
3
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
517
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–3 of 3
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Big Brains and Bipedalism

    One of the reasons often quoted for the limit on human brain
    size, is the restriction placed on head size due to
    childbirth. In bipedal humans, childbirth poses a serious
    risk for both mother and child (mortality rates increasing
    for both), because the newborn must now pass out of a narrow
    birth canal between the narrower pelvis hips (which have
    evolved for an upright posture). This is a problem not
    experienced to the same degree by quadrupeds. It is now well
    established that bipedalism evolved first followed by large
    brains. To me this seems something of a paradox because we
    have a trait, bipedalism (with its associated narrower birth
    canal and increased mortality) which would seem to place
    selective pressure on smaller heads (and associated brains),
    not larger. The adaptive value of larger brains must now be
    explained as being very significant in order to overcome
    this reverse trend which would have been expected.

    I would now like to suggest an alternate hypothesis, which
    is, that larger brains are a direct result of bipedalism and
    difficult child birth rather than the opposite.

    Let me explain. Because of bipedalism and its associated
    difficult childbirth, evolution has come up with a partial
    solution for the big head problem, (neoteny being one), and
    also a softer, (less rigid) more plastic or malleable skull
    during childbirth. Humans at birth have not only a hole in
    the top of the skull but also the skull cap is extremely
    soft with radial unhealed fractures running in all
    directions. (If you have every seen a newborn immediately
    after birth, their heads look like squashed prunes). Only
    bipedal humans have this trait, quadrupeds have much more
    hard and rigid skulls with little deformation (its not
    needed), their skulls size (while they still grow) are more
    set at birth.

    Could it be that the physiology of brain growth is such that
    they simply grow to their container size? and that the
    pressure of a growing brain in a softer more plastic skull
    has resulted in a larger brain before the skull matures
    (heals) into a more rigid one. Skulls do not grow to
    accommodate a predetermined brain size, the opposite is
    true, brains grow to fit a genetically determined skull
    size. When you think about it, brains exactly fit skulls.
    This may seem intuitively obvious, but wait, other body
    organs cannot follow this growing strategy, because they are
    not enclosed (and subsequently restrained) in a rigid
    structure like a boney skull. This is why (as any surgeon
    will attest) organs can and do vary in size constrained only
    by an inherited genetic growth limit. Is it possible that
    brains follow a different growth strategy. The physiology of
    brain growth may be different from other organs, relying
    more on the pressure of the container size to restrict
    growth rather than having a preset genetic size, (the folds
    in the brain may have something to do with this pressure
    growth relation). One observation seems to confirm this,
    which is, have you ever heard of a person with a large skull
    but a small brain, the answer is of course no, brains always
    grow to container size. If brain size of an individual is
    predetermined by inherited genetics (skull size most
    certainly is) we should expect statistically to see varying
    sizes of brains to skulls (small brain, large skull, would
    be one) and of course we don't. If this idea is correct,
    large Brains would now seem to be a physiological
    development phenomenon rather than a naturally selected
    adaptive trait.

    The traits usually quoted as the adaptive reasons for big
    brains, speech, mental maps, group hunting, social situation
    manipulators, heat radiators, tool use, dexterity (opposable
    thumbs) etc. can now be viewed as exaptations (which are not
    the reasons for large brains but a consequence of them),
    which have found utility within the confines of a larger
    brain. Of course once any or all of the above traits become
    incipient, a positive feedback loop would set in reinforcing
    the value of the larger brain.

    So there it is, 1- Bipedalism evolves for some reason, 2-
    Childbirth with rigid skulls increases mortality rates, 3-
    Soft, plastic more malleable skulls are naturally selected
    for, 4- Neotenist brain growth restricted by the pressure of
    the container now pushes on a more malleable skull, 5- Large
    brains. .... Could it be this simple ....

    Gould would have liked this, he favors more random,
    contingent processes.

    Are there any stats to indicate larger [or smaller] brains
    in c sections? Any correlations with IQ? (I believe there is
    for both). A good Grad thesis would be to remove mouse
    embryos and place radial cuts in skull caps, replace to term
    and measure brain growth to size.

    Anyway, this is all off the top of my hard rigid head.

    For Further Speculations visit; home.i-home.i-
    zoom.net/~wgilmour/Cosmology%20and%20Evolution.html

  2. B Gilmour said:

    Big Brains and Bipedalism

    One of the reasons often quoted for the limit on human
    brain size, is the restriction placed on head size due to
    childbirth. In bipedal humans, childbirth poses a serious
    risk for both mother and child (mortality rates increasing
    for both), because the newborn must now pass out of a
    narrow birth canal between the narrower pelvis hips (which
    have evolved for an upright posture). This is a problem
    not experienced to the same degree by quadrupeds. It is
    now well established that bipedalism evolved first
    followed by large brains. To me this seems something of a
    paradox because we have a trait, bipedalism (with its
    associated narrower birth canal and increased mortality)
    which would seem to place selective pressure on smaller
    heads (and associated brains), not larger. The adaptive
    value of larger brains must now be explained as being very
    significant in order to overcome this reverse trend which
    would have been expected.

    I would now like to suggest an alternate hypothesis, which
    is, that larger brains are a direct result of bipedalism
    and difficult child birth rather than the opposite.

    Let me explain. Because of bipedalism and its associated
    difficult childbirth, evolution has come up with a partial
    solution for the big head problem, (neoteny being one),
    and also a softer, (less rigid) more plastic or malleable
    skull during childbirth. Humans at birth have not only a
    hole in the top of the skull but also the skull cap is
    extremely soft with radial unhealed fractures running in
    all directions. (If you have every seen a newborn
    immediately after birth, their heads look like squashed
    prunes). Only bipedal humans have this trait, quadrupeds
    have much more hard and rigid skulls with little
    deformation (its not needed), their skulls size (while
    they still grow) are more set at birth.

    Could it be that the physiology of brain growth is such
    that they simply grow to their container size? and that
    the pressure of a growing brain in a softer more plastic
    skull has resulted in a larger brain before the skull
    matures (heals) into a more rigid one. Skulls do not grow
    to accommodate a predetermined brain size, the opposite
    is true, brains grow to fit a genetically determined
    skull size. When you think about it, brains exactly fit
    skulls. This may seem intuitively obvious, but wait,
    other body organs


    ...<snip>...

    I suppose experiments could be done on animals to remove
    parts of the skulls at birth (perhaps enlarge them by
    replacing them with flexible plates?) to see if the brains
    grew larger. (I must say I find the idea kind of gruesome;
    I'm not fond of vivisection, but worse things are done to
    animals' brains in the name of scientific research.)

  3. Your position in a nutshell is that the ability of the human
    head to deform allowed large brains, rather than large
    brains caused (required) human skulls to be able to deform
    during childbirth.

    I would firstly be interested to know if other animals had
    skulls which were soft during childbirth. A Google search
    showed only human references

    You identfy that there would be considerable evolution
    pressure against big brains, hence it is hard to see how the
    intermediate species has big brains without soft skulls, and
    hence why soft skulls would have to have developed first.

    There is additional, indirect support for your view. All
    animals in development as embryos (and later) repeat there
    evolutionary history - we look like fish at three weeks
    after conception ,("ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" as it
    is known) , and hence by this measure our development of
    soft skulls probably preceeded our big brains, because we
    have soft skulls before we understand calculus .

    You cannot however then say soft skulls caused bgi brains;
    there is a lot more to making us smart than making our
    brains big, or the IBM 370 series would be the most powerful
    computers in the world. Certainly soft skulls occurred in
    parallel with evoltuion of the speech cortex , and other
    imprtanr changes ...

    "B Gilmour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Big Brains and Bipedalism

    One of the reasons often quoted for the limit on human
    brain size, is the restriction placed on head size due to
    childbirth. In bipedal humans, childbirth poses a serious
    risk for both mother and child (mortality rates increasing
    for both), because the newborn must now pass out of a
    narrow birth canal between the narrower pelvis hips (which
    have evolved for an upright posture). This is a problem
    not experienced to the same degree by quadrupeds. It is
    now well established that bipedalism evolved first
    followed by large brains. To me this seems something of a
    paradox because


    we

    Quoted message said:

    have a trait, bipedalism (with its associated narrower
    birth canal and increased mortality) which would seem to
    place selective pressure on


    smaller

    Quoted message said:

    heads (and associated brains), not larger. The adaptive
    value of larger brains must now be explained as being very
    significant in order to


    overcome

    Quoted message said:

    this reverse trend which would have been expected.

    I would now like to suggest an alternate hypothesis, which
    is, that larger brains are a direct result of bipedalism
    and difficult child birth rather than the opposite.

    Let me explain. Because of bipedalism and its associated
    difficult childbirth, evolution


    has

    Quoted message said:

    come up with a partial solution for the big head problem,
    (neoteny being one), and also a softer, (less rigid) more
    plastic or malleable skull


    during

    Quoted message said:

    childbirth. Humans at birth have not only a hole in the
    top of the skull


    but

    Quoted message said:

    also the skull cap is extremely soft with radial unhealed
    fractures


    running

    Quoted message said:

    in all directions. (If you have every seen a newborn
    immediately after birth, their heads look like squashed
    prunes). Only bipedal humans have


    this

    Quoted message said:

    trait, quadrupeds have much more hard and rigid skulls
    with little deformation (its not needed), their skulls
    size (while they still grow)


    are

    Quoted message said:

    more set at birth.

    Could it be that the physiology of brain growth is such
    that they simply grow to their container size? and that
    the pressure of a growing brain in


    a

    Quoted message said:

    softer more plastic skull has resulted in a larger brain
    before the skull matures (heals) into a more rigid one.
    Skulls do not grow to accommodate a predetermined brain
    size, the opposite is true, brains grow to fit a
    genetically determined skull size. When you think about
    it, brains exactly fit skulls. This may seem intuitively
    obvious, but wait, other body organs cannot follow this
    growing strategy, because they are not enclosed (and
    subsequently restrained) in a rigid structure like a boney
    skull. This is why (as any surgeon will attest) organs can
    and do vary in size


    constrained

    Quoted message said:

    only by an inherited genetic growth limit. Is it possible
    that brains


    follow

    Quoted message said:

    a different growth strategy. The physiology of brain
    growth may be


    different

    Quoted message said:

    from other organs, relying more on the pressure of the
    container size to restrict growth rather than having a
    preset genetic size, (the folds in


    the

    Quoted message said:

    brain may have something to do with this pressure growth
    relation). One observation seems to confirm this, which
    is, have you ever heard of a


    person

    Quoted message said:

    with a large skull but a small brain, the answer is of
    course no, brains always grow to container size. If brain
    size of an individual is predetermined by inherited
    genetics (skull size most certainly is) we


    should

    Quoted message said:

    expect statistically to see varying sizes of brains to
    skulls (small


    brain,

    Quoted message said:

    large skull, would be one) and of course we don't. If
    this idea is


    correct,

    Quoted message said:

    large Brains would now seem to be a physiological
    development phenomenon rather than a naturally selected
    adaptive trait.

    The traits usually quoted as the adaptive reasons for big
    brains, speech, mental maps, group hunting, social
    situation manipulators, heat radiators, tool use,
    dexterity (opposable thumbs) etc. can now be viewed as


    exaptations

    Quoted message said:

    (which are not the reasons for large brains but a
    consequence of them), which have found utility within
    the confines of a larger brain. Of course once any or
    all of the above traits become incipient, a positive
    feedback loop would set in reinforcing the value of the
    larger brain.

    So there it is, 1- Bipedalism evolves for some reason, 2-
    Childbirth with rigid skulls increases mortality rates, 3-
    Soft, plastic more malleable skulls are naturally selected
    for, 4- Neotenist brain growth restricted by the pressure
    of the container now pushes on a more malleable skull, 5-
    Large brains. .... Could it be this simple ....

    Gould would have liked this, he favors more random,
    contingent processes.

    Are there any stats to indicate larger [or smaller] brains
    in c sections? Any correlations with IQ? (I believe there
    is for both). A good Grad thesis would be to remove mouse
    embryos and place radial cuts


    in

    Quoted message said:

    skull caps, replace to term and measure brain growth
    to size.

    Anyway, this is all off the top of my hard rigid head.

    For Further Speculations visit; home.i-home.i-
    zoom.net/~wgilmour/Cosmology%20and%20Evolution.html

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.