Any opinions on this seat stay configuration? The owner claims that:
" I can feel the aero advantage, even with a Nelson long flap on the saddle, and the ride is super silky because bumps at the rear are transmitted to the saddle by the lower stay a micro second sooner than by the upper stay, effectively smoothing road irregularities. I'm sure it works at least as well as carbon fiber seat stays!"
No mention is made in comparison between these staggered stays and the stiff yet smooth Serotta 3D XL Micro Pivot dropouts...
Robert Canon <[email hidden]> wrote: : Any opinions on this seat stay configuration? The owner : claims that:
: " I can feel the aero advantage, even with a Nelson long : flap on the saddle, and the ride is super silky because : bumps at the rear are transmitted to the saddle by the : lower stay a micro second sooner than by the upper stay, : effectively smoothing road irregularities. I'm sure it : works at least as well as carbon fiber seat stays!"
Unfortunately he's overlooked the fact that the aerodynamic drag will be asymmetric, resulting in a tendency to veer into traffic. Also it will result over time in atrophy of the right quadriceps.
"Robert Canon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Any opinions on this seat stay configuration? The owner claims that:
" I can feel the aero advantage, even with a Nelson long flap on the
saddle,
Quoted message said:
and the ride is super silky because bumps at the rear are transmitted to
the
Quoted message said:
saddle by the lower stay a micro second sooner than by the upper stay, effectively smoothing road irregularities. I'm sure it works at least as well as carbon fiber seat stays!"
No mention is made in comparison between these staggered stays and the
Robert Canon <[email hidden]> wrote: : Any opinions on this seat stay configuration? The owner : claims that:
: " I can feel the aero advantage, even with a Nelson long : flap on the saddle, and the ride is super silky because : bumps at the rear are transmitted to the saddle by the : lower stay a micro second sooner than by the upper stay, : effectively smoothing road irregularities. I'm sure it : works at least as well as carbon fiber seat stays!"
Unfortunately he's overlooked the fact that the aerodynamic drag will be asymmetric, resulting in a tendency to veer into traffic.
Nah. That bike is designed for the UK, Australia, NZ, Japan . . . very safe in left-hand traffic.
OTOH it is a fixie so its tendency to veer left will suit velodromes perfectly.
Quoted message said:
Also it will result over time in atrophy of the right quadriceps.
I'd think cirrhosis of the liver. Have a look at the position of those handlebars. Almost seat height. Yeesh. That riding posture is perfect for those who're used to standing at a bar all evening.
But I'm thinking about the smoothing out of road irregularities. Say the guy who designed this piece of garbage actually is smarter than all of us put together - that he got the resonance characteristics figured out so that it works. The pressure wave travelling up the left stay arrives a half wavelength behind the same wave travelling up the right . . . OK techies, go figure it out.
</trollmode>
/Robert [/B]
For steel tubes (E=3x10^6 psi), 0.5" OD, 1mm wall thickness, I estimate the wave speed to be 4500 feet per second. If the difference in seat stay length is 2 inches (appears to be less than that in the photo) the second spike will hit the seat tube a whopping 37 microseconds after the first one. This is within the tolerance of butt skin fat layer thickness discrepancy between the left and right buns for both average and elite riders. Conclusion: dumb ass idea.
Haha - thanks for the quantitative analysis. Not only does it look like someone spent a fortune on a blem (a big one), but (assuming your math is right) the math shows this is a fact!
Any opinions on this seat stay configuration? The owner claims that:
" I can feel the aero advantage, even with a Nelson long flap on the saddle, and the ride is super silky because bumps at the rear are transmitted to the saddle by the lower stay a micro second sooner than by the upper stay, effectively smoothing road irregularities. I'm sure it works at least as well as carbon fiber seat stays!"
No mention is made in comparison between these staggered stays and the stiff yet smooth Serotta 3D XL Micro Pivot dropouts...
"Robert Canon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Any opinions on this seat stay configuration? The owner claims that:
" I can feel the aero advantage, even with a Nelson long flap on the saddle, and the ride is super silky because bumps at the rear are transmitted to the saddle by the lower stay a micro second sooner than by the upper stay, effectively smoothing road irregularities. I'm sure it works at least as well as carbon fiber seat stays!"
No mention is made in comparison between these staggered stays and the stiff yet smooth Serotta 3D XL Micro Pivot dropouts...
I can't tell from the picture--is that a 175/165 crank?
Carl Fogel
I'm not sure, but if you ride with your legs crossed it's far more aero. Instead of your knees sticking out in the breeze they're tucked in within the frame.
I can't tell from the picture--is that a 175/165 crank?
Dear Carl,
Aren't we the eagle eyed r.b.t denizen! The obviously mental owner, whoever the hell he/she is, appears to have chosen TA cranks for the express purpose of obtaining 180/160 arms. This, so he/she claims, prevents the veering into traffic and thigh atrophy astutely noted by other posters.
Robert "all I know is what I stumble across on the intenet" Canon
For steel tubes (E=3x10^6 psi), 0.5" OD, 1mm wall thickness, I estimate the wave speed to be 4500 feet per second. If the difference in seat stay length is 2 inches (appears to be less than that in the photo) the second spike will hit the seat tube a whopping 37 microseconds after the first one. This is within the tolerance of butt skin fat layer thickness discrepancy between the left and right buns for both average and elite riders. Conclusion: dumb ass idea.
I don't know anything about physics, but wouldn't the waveform be from a vibration, while a seatstay transmits a vertical movement, that would be instantaneous? Thus, it wouldn't matter how staggered (as long as adequately stiff)?
For steel tubes (E=3x10^6 psi), 0.5" OD, 1mm wall thickness, I estimate the wave speed to be 4500 feet per second. If the difference in seat stay length is 2 inches (appears to be less than that in the photo) the second spike will hit the seat tube a whopping 37 microseconds after the first one. This is within the tolerance of butt skin fat layer thickness discrepancy between the left and right buns for both average and elite riders. Conclusion: dumb ass idea.
I don't know anything about physics, but wouldn't the waveform be from a vibration, while a seatstay transmits a vertical movement, that would be instantaneous? Thus, it wouldn't matter how staggered (as long as adequately stiff)?
Yep.
This bike is proof positive that if a rider expects to feel a difference, he or she is almost certain to (whether it's there or not).
Gedanken experiment: How long for a displacement of one end of this 'steel tube' to reach the other that is a lightyear away? Instantaneous? Nah, propagation velocity in steel is about 5k fps IIRC. Hardly instantaneous.
But golden butts, like audiophile golden ears persist.
"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... | [email hidden] (whitfit) wrote: | | >DiabloScott <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > | >> For steel tubes (E=3x10^6 psi), 0.5" OD, 1mm wall | >> thickness, I estimate the wave speed to be 4500 feet | >> per second. If the difference in seat stay length is 2 | >> inches (appears to be less than that in the photo) the | >> second spike will hit the seat tube a whopping 37 | >> microseconds after the | >> first one. This is within the tolerance of butt skin | >> fat layer thickness | >> discrepancy between the left and right buns for both | >> average and elite riders. Conclusion: dumb ass idea. | > | >I don't know anything about physics, but wouldn't the | >waveform be from a vibration, while a seatstay transmits | >a vertical movement, that would be instantaneous? Thus, | >it wouldn't matter how staggered (as long as adequately | >stiff)? | | Yep. | | This bike is proof positive that if a rider expects to | feel a difference, he or she is almost certain to (whether | it's there or not). | | Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home | of the $695 ti frame
Have a look at the position of those handlebars. Almost seat height. Yeesh. That riding posture is perfect for those who're used to standing at a bar all evening.
How low should the handlebar be? Six inches below the saddle? Should the rider's chest rest on the top tube for 50 miles?
Maybe this would work: bulgier.netUCIOpen ↗ approved_TT_position.gif -- Rick Onanian
Have a look at the position of those handlebars. Almost seat height. Yeesh. That riding posture is perfect for those who're used to standing at a bar all evening.
How low should the handlebar be? Six inches below the saddle? Should the rider's chest rest on the top tube for 50 miles?
We've been joking a lot about aerodynamics, the benefits of shock transmitted in/out of phase up these wonderful seat stays ;-)
But if the owner's out after some performance, then yes, by far the best way would be to lower the hands about 20-30 cm or so, in order to get through the wind better, and to tense up the gluteus max. Seems logical on a fixie, too.
On the drops, my hands are about 25 cm below the saddle tip. On the tops of the bars, some 12 cm higher. No problem at all riding up to 150 km this way. It's actually very comfortable, if your gloves are good. YMMV of course ;-)
Gedanken experiment: How long for a displacement of one end of this 'steel tube' to reach the other that is a lightyear away? Instantaneous? Nah, propagation velocity in steel is about 5k fps IIRC. Hardly instantaneous.
But golden butts, like audiophile golden ears persist.
I'll remember that next time I fit a custom for someone who can tolerate one lightyear standover height. Thanks. ;-)
"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... | [email hidden] (whitfit) wrote: | | >DiabloScott <[email hidden]> wrote in | >message | > | >> For steel tubes (E=3x10^6 psi), 0.5" OD, 1mm wall | >> thickness, I estimate the wave speed to be 4500 feet | >> per second. If the difference in seat stay length is 2 | >> inches (appears to be less than that in the photo) the | >> second spike will hit the seat tube a whopping 37 | >> microseconds after the | >> first one. This is within the tolerance of butt skin | >> fat layer thickness | >> discrepancy between the left and right buns for both | >> average and elite riders. Conclusion: dumb ass idea. | > | >I don't know anything about physics, but wouldn't the | >waveform be from a vibration, while a seatstay transmits | >a vertical movement, that would be instantaneous? Thus, | >it wouldn't matter how staggered (as long as adequately | >stiff)? | | Yep. | | This bike is proof positive that if a rider expects to | feel a difference, he or she is almost certain to | (whether it's there or not). | | Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home | of the $695 ti frame
