Scandium Frames

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bikehawk5
If anyone could fill me in on Scandium frames i'd appreciate it as i'm considering buying 1.The thing is i've heard differing opinions,especially what was obviously a glowing positive 1 from the dealer(BIG surprise there right?).Maybe Ti is the way to go...

Don't buy a frame built with Dedacciai SC 61.10 Because someone claims it to be a Scandium alloy. It's hooey.

Easton Sc7000 Scandium is the name of Rocky Mountains Vertex Tsc frame material;can't say as i've ever heard of Dedacciai SC 61.10.I came across someone here who swears his Magnesium frame by Paketa which has a 94% Magnesium content rules,so now i'll have to look into that.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bikehawk5
Easton Sc7000 Scandium is the name of Rocky Mountains Vertex Tsc frame material;can't say as i've ever heard of Dedacciai SC 61.10.I came across someone here who swears his Magnesium frame by Paketa which has a 94% Magnesium content rules,so now i'll have to look into that.

Scandium is just an alloying element added to 7000-series AL in to maintain fine grain structure in the weld zone. The wall-thicknesses and dimensions (weight) of Easton's Sc tubesets looks to be about the same as their Ultralite series, so it seems to me the only advantage would be greater resistance to fatigue cracking in the welds....at least in theory.

Good background paper by Easton is:

http://www.eastonbike.com/downloadable_files/r&d_files/R&D-03%20Scandium.pd

Not trying to discredit Easton's Scandium in any way here, but just suggesting that a lot this stuff doesn't make any practical difference. Of course, if you believe a Merckx Sc frame will help you beat the Farm & Home French Fry Team in the Paris-Roubaix, that's the brand of AL to buy.

🙂

Thanx for the info.After looking at a reply here & there to other peoples inquiries i think Titanium,Kleins ZR9000 Alloy,or Magnesium frame material is the way to go.Reynolds 853 tubing is also a definite contender.If you (Or anyone else of course:-)have any good sources or leads i could follow up on any of these materials,please let me know. [email hidden] is one of my e-mails,feel free to fire 1 off to me!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bikehawk5
i think Titanium,Kleins ZR9000 Alloy,or Magnesium frame material is the way to go.Reynolds 853 tubing is also a definite contender.If you (Or anyone else of course:-)have any good sources or leads i could follow up on any of these materials, [email hidden] is one of my e-mails,feel free to fire 1 off to me!

You are just kidding yourself,but why not add Carbon Fiber.

Are there any pictures of the Farm & Home French Fry Team kit anywhere?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
You are just kidding yourself,but why not add Carbon Fiber.

I have GOT!! to know why you feel i'm kidding myself.Titanium has excellent corrosion resistance & metal fatigue, with absorbsion factors inherent to its make-up.ZR9000- "Klein's proprietary alloy blends the advantages of aerospace grade aluminum, zirconium, copper and manganese into lighter, stronger tubing with a 98 percent better fatigue life than industry-standard aluminum. Its improved strength allows for thinner Gradient tube walls in key areas of the frame, which has lowered frame weight by another astonishing 15 percent."That is aquote from Kleins website-I need not add anything more.As for Magnesium,i did a few hours research after reading a post from BJC & again i quote "I just received my new Paketa Magnesium bike and it simply rules! The characteristics of Mg are that of carbon, titanium, steel and aluminum materials rolled into one super light bike. It has the dampening qualities of Carbon but doesn't feel dead; it has the comfort of titanium and steel but is way lighter and it has the agility of aluminum but stronger (due to thicker tube walls). Paketa did a beautiful thing."As for Reynolds 853 tubing another quote-"From tests done on 853 by a number of major bicycle companies, the fatigue life on framesets will be appreciably higher than conventional Chrome-Mo frames, suiting competitive riders who want to ride their frames for several seasons before they upgrade. Builders can use 853 for the main triangle and the chainstays and seatstays."About adding Carbon Fiber to my list - Everyone i know says it has a "dead"feel to it's ride.Especially detrimental for a person like myelf who wants to go about 1000 miles this summer.Did i cover all the bases for ya'?Speak up friend. http://www.reynoldsusa.com/tubing/tubing.html Here is a site everyone should check out who has an interest in the metallurgical side of frame materials.

Don't know how you can claim carbon has a dead feel to it considering you haven't actually rode a carbon frame. Rode my Giant CFR 1 approx 1600 miles from England to Northern Spain in '99 without any problems. Also rode 240 miles in a day last summer on the same bike and felt quite fresh afterwards. This frame is very stiff but nevertheless forgiving. How on earth a material can be so resistant to flex and yet provide a comfortable ride intrigues me no end.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bikehawk5
I have GOT!! to know why you feel i'm kidding myself.Titanium has excellent corrosion resistance & metal fatigue, with absorbsion factors inherent to its make-up.ZR9000- "Klein's proprietary alloy blends the advantages of aerospace grade aluminum, zirconium, copper and manganese into lighter, stronger tubing with a 98 percent better fatigue life than industry-standard aluminum. Its improved strength allows for thinner Gradient tube walls in key areas of the frame, which has lowered frame weight by another astonishing 15 percent."That is aquote from Kleins website-I need not add anything more.As for Magnesium,i did a few hours research after reading a post from BJC & again i quote "I just received my new Paketa Magnesium bike and it simply rules! The characteristics of Mg are that of carbon, titanium, steel and aluminum materials rolled into one super light bike. It has the dampening qualities of Carbon but doesn't feel dead; it has the comfort of titanium and steel but is way lighter and it has the agility of aluminum but stronger (due to thicker tube walls). Paketa did a beautiful thing."As for Reynolds 853 tubing another quote-"From tests done on 853 by a number of major bicycle companies, the fatigue life on framesets will be appreciably higher than conventional Chrome-Mo frames, suiting competitive riders who want to ride their frames for several seasons before they upgrade. Builders can use 853 for the main triangle and the chainstays and seatstays."About adding Carbon Fiber to my list - Everyone i know says it has a "dead"feel to it's ride.Especially detrimental for a person like myelf who wants to go about 1000 miles this summer.Did i cover all the bases for ya'?Speak up friend. http://www.reynoldsusa.com/tubing/tubing.html Here is a site everyone should check out who has an interest in the metallurgical side of frame materials.

You just bought a barge load of hooey, and marketing I have some nice swampland I need to unload.....

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bikehawk5
I have GOT!! to know why you feel i'm kidding myself.Titanium has excellent corrosion resistance & metal fatigue, with absorbsion factors inherent to its make-up.ZR9000- "Klein's proprietary alloy blends the advantages of aerospace grade aluminum, zirconium, copper and manganese into lighter, stronger tubing with a 98 percent better fatigue life than industry-standard aluminum. Its improved strength allows for thinner Gradient tube walls in key areas of the frame, which has lowered frame weight by another astonishing 15 percent."That is aquote from Kleins website-I need not add anything more.As for Magnesium,i did a few hours research after reading a post from BJC & again i quote "I just received my new Paketa Magnesium bike and it simply rules! The characteristics of Mg are that of carbon, titanium, steel and aluminum materials rolled into one super light bike. It has the dampening qualities of Carbon but doesn't feel dead; it has the comfort of titanium and steel but is way lighter and it has the agility of aluminum but stronger (due to thicker tube walls). Paketa did a beautiful thing."As for Reynolds 853 tubing another quote-"From tests done on 853 by a number of major bicycle companies, the fatigue life on framesets will be appreciably higher than conventional Chrome-Mo frames, suiting competitive riders who want to ride their frames for several seasons before they upgrade. Builders can use 853 for the main triangle and the chainstays and seatstays."About adding Carbon Fiber to my list - Everyone i know says it has a "dead"feel to it's ride.Especially detrimental for a person like myelf who wants to go about 1000 miles this summer.Did i cover all the bases for ya'?Speak up friend. http://www.reynoldsusa.com/tubing/tubing.html Here is a site everyone should check out who has an interest in the metallurgical side of frame materials.

you could easily find similar reviews for cf as a frame material if you wanted.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bikehawk5
"About adding Carbon Fiber to my list - Everyone i know says it has a "dead"feel to it's ride.Especially detrimental for a person like myelf who wants to go about 1000 miles this summer.Did i cover all the bases for ya'?

OMG!! My humblest of apoligies.I did not realise you were such a hardcore stud rider. A whole 1000 miles...LOL Hot tip here.You could do that on a Huffy,and save alot of money. Might give up some poseur points tho.

Bikehawk, in general, you're on to something. Different materials do behave differently when all else is equal, and your average carbon will feel different than your average aluminum frame (like a Klein; the ZR900 is just a proprietary alum-alloy), or titanium frame, or steel frame. I'm leaving magnesium out of the mix because it's a particularly exotic and not particularly proven material at this point, and only a few small companies make mag bikes.

Anyways, though there are general differences in road feel and performance among these materials, those differences are typically subtle matters of preference -- at the same time, there are less subjective differences between the materials in matters of price and lifespan. What irks the heck out of boudreaux (as far as I can tell) isn't necessarily that these materials exist and are sold in large quantities; it's that there are extensive spheres of mythic hype surrounding each.

One doesn't have to sift through too many manufacturer websites to find eloquent techincal claims explaining why their own materials make the lightest, strongest, best riding, smoothest, most responsive tubes imaginable.

Given that, you just gotta do a little homework, and remember that there's no magic bullet. There's great carbon fiber out there, and there's flexy, fragile carbon fiber out there. There's titanium tubing that soaks up nasty vibrations and weighs less than air; there's buzzy titanium that might as well be cast iron. There are aluminum frames that will take you to hell and back and others that will shatter the first time they're laid down.

The bottom line is that you're better off working bike by bike, keeping an eye out for the best riding, best fitting, most exciting, most reputable frame in your price range. One of your considerations can certainly be frame material -- but keep that flexible. You may want, say, titanium, because it's lightweight and compliant, and end up snagging a great aluminum/carbon frame that gives you exactly that same thing.

Or, you can (correctly) assume that any frame material properly utilized by a reputable builder will satisfy you, at which point it's about subtle matters of ride and style points -- factors you can only evaluate bike by bike.

Good luck, ok? Let us know what you decide.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by lokstah
Bikehawk, in general, you're on to something. Different materials do behave differently when all else is equal, and your average carbon will feel different than your average aluminum frame (like a Klein; the ZR900 is just a proprietary alum-alloy), or titanium frame, or steel frame. I'm leaving magnesium out of the mix because it's a particularly exotic and not particularly proven material at this point, and only a few small companies make mag bikes.

Anyways, though there are general differences in road feel and performance among these materials, those differences are typically subtle matters of preference -- at the same time, there are less subjective differences between the materials in matters of price and lifespan. What irks the heck out of boudreaux (as far as I can tell) isn't necessarily that these materials exist and are sold in large quantities; it's that there are extensive spheres of mythic hype surrounding each.

One doesn't have to sift through too many manufacturer websites to find eloquent techincal claims explaining why their own materials make the lightest, strongest, best riding, smoothest, most responsive tubes imaginable.

Given that, you just gotta do a little homework, and remember that there's no magic bullet. There's great carbon fiber out there, and there's flexy, fragile carbon fiber out there. There's titanium tubing that soaks up nasty vibrations and weighs less than air; there's buzzy titanium that might as well be cast iron. There are aluminum frames that will take you to hell and back and others that will shatter the first time they're laid down.

The bottom line is that you're better off working bike by bike, keeping an eye out for the best riding, best fitting, most exciting, most reputable frame in your price range. One of your considerations can certainly be frame material -- but keep that flexible. You may want, say, titanium, because it's lightweight and compliant, and end up snagging a great aluminum/carbon frame that gives you exactly that same thing.

Or, you can (correctly) assume that any frame material properly utilized by a reputable builder will satisfy you, at which point it's about subtle matters of ride and style points -- factors you can only evaluate bike by bike.

Good luck, ok? Let us know what you decide.

Thank you for the only civil reply with what is obviously quite a bit of experience.I'll take evrything you have said to heart.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
OMG!! My humblest of apoligies.I did not realise you were such a hardcore stud rider. A whole 1000 miles...LOL Hot tip here.You could do that on a Huffy,and save alot of money. Might give up some poseur points tho.

When i posted the bit about 1000 miles,it seems i forgot to spell out how i was going to do them- In a straight line Northward this Summer from Toronto to say,Thunderbay & back.Whats with the sarcasm anyway?You don't even know who the hell i am,+ the fact that i've broken my back TWICE,had MULTIPLE bone fractures,etc.,etc.It would do you more good in the long run to know who you're talking to.For me it will be the achievement i've been longing to accomplish for quite some time.Be civil or [censored].

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
You just bought a barge load of hooey, and marketing I have some nice swampland I need to unload.....

I would appreciate it if you would be either civil & save your sarcasm or [censored].

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bikehawk5
Thank you for the only civil reply with what is obviously quite a bit of experience.I'll take evrything you have said to heart.

It's not necessarily experience.It's paying attention and common sense. I did not feel like writing the book. He gets paid by the word.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by crystal_tears_
Don't know how you can claim carbon has a dead feel to it considering you haven't actually rode a carbon frame. Rode my Giant CFR 1 approx 1600 miles from England to Northern Spain in '99 without any problems. Also rode 240 miles in a day last summer on the same bike and felt quite fresh afterwards. This frame is very stiff but nevertheless forgiving. How on earth a material can be so resistant to flex and yet provide a comfortable ride intrigues me no end.

I am going by what people who own them have said to me;plus a few reviews i've read here & there online.If you have a CF bike that suits your riding needs i say Great!I just can't see myself shelling out what would be an appreciable amount of $$$ & find out it doesn't work out for me.Plus,it sounds like a Roadbike which i have great dificulty riding because of past injuries.All the best in your future rides.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bikehawk5
I would appreciate it if you would be either civil & save your sarcasm or [censored].

Not much chance of that after that 'learned ' rant of yours derived from a quick internet search. Buy all the BS, marketing and hooey, or learn to sort wheat from chaff.

kumbayah, my lord, kumbayah...

(let's see... at 20 cents a word, that's $.80... hmmm)