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Balancing running with cycling

Started by James P. Smith · · Last activity · 20 posts · 1,137 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
11 March 2004
Last activity
13 March 2004
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James P. Smith
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  1. My primary sport is cycling. However, during the offseason I
    picked up running as a means of cross-training as well as a
    tool while I travel for work. Even though running is my
    secondary sport, I want to get better (faster). My question
    involves the balancing of running and cycling with a focus
    on improving both.

    My typical cycling schedule is

    Monday - off Tuesday - moderate to hard (tempo, LT
    intervals, or anaerobic intervals), 60-150 minutes Wednesday
    - easy 45-60 minute spin Thursday - moderate to hard (tempo,
    LT intervals, or anaerobic intervals), 60-150 minutes Friday
    - easy 45-60 minute spin Saturday - long ride with mix of
    easy to anaerobic, 120-240 minutes Sunday - long ride with
    mix of easy to anaerobic, 120-240 minutes

    My typical run schedule these days has me running on
    only 3 days:

    Tuesday - tempo or 1-mile LT intervals (1/4 mile rest
    period), 5-7 miles total running usually within 30-45
    minutes of the bike workout Thursday - either moderate (sub
    tempo) or tempo run of 5-7 miles, usually 30-45 minutes
    after riding Sunday - long run of 10-15 miles, usually in
    the evening (6+ hours after cycling)

    I was in Japan for a few weeks and was doing nothing but
    running. I noticed that my 1-mile intervals were rather
    quick for me (6:00-6:30 or so). By comparison, after a
    pretty good 2 hour ride Tuesday, which involved 90+ minutes
    of tempo riding (85-90% of hour threshold power), my legs
    only managed 7:00-7:15 miles at pretty close to the same
    heart rate and perceived effort as the "Japan mile repeats."
    My legs obviously were affected by the riding. I imagine it
    will only get worse once I start doing some 6x5 minute
    anaerobic intervals on the bike.

    Until daylight savings time arrives, splitting the workouts
    into morning and evening is out of the question. As it is I
    am work a 630 AM so I can get back early enough to ride in
    the late afternoon. Also, I'm fairly protective of keeping
    Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as days off or very easy days
    to allow the hard days to be harder.

    So the question is, are the running interval or tempo
    sessions after my strenuous cycling workouts improving my
    speed or are they a waste of time? I'm sure the benefit
    wouldn't be as great as if I was focusing on running only.

    If you were in my shoes, how would you schedule your
    workouts?

    My running related goals include a sub 20:00 5k, a sub 1:40
    half marathon, perhaps a sub 5:30 mile, and perhaps some
    duathlons.

  2. "James P. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    riding. I imagine it will only get worse once I start
    doing some 6x5


    minute

    Quoted message said:

    anaerobic intervals on the bike.

    Your five minute intervals are actually aerobic, and very
    much so. Anaerobic activity is such that does not depend
    on oxygen.

    cheers,
    --
    David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
    insecure people are the ones you see, putting other people
    down constantly."

  3. SwStudio said:

    Your five minute intervals are actually aerobic, and very
    much so. Anaerobic activity is such that does not depend
    on oxygen.

    Here we go again...

    His 6 x 5 min sessions on his bike will - if done as hard
    as I suspect
    - most certainly have an anaerobic component.

    Just 'cause you toddle around in a happy daze when you're
    doing your 'intervals' does not mean that the rest of us
    mimic your euphoric state when conducting ours.

  4. SwStudio said:

    Your five minute intervals are actually aerobic, and very
    much so. Anaerobic activity is such that does not depend
    on oxygen.

    Here we go again...

    His 6 x 5 min sessions on his bike will - if done as hard
    as I suspect
    - most certainly have an anaerobic component.

    Just 'cause you toddle around in a happy daze when you're
    doing your 'intervals' does not mean that the rest of us
    mimic your euphoric state when conducting ours.

  5. "James P. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    So the question is, are the running interval or tempo
    sessions after my strenuous cycling workouts improving my
    speed or are they a waste of time? I'm sure the benefit
    wouldn't be as great as if I was focusing on running only.

    The answer for either, both and other sports don't do 2 hard
    workouts in a row. Either you will injure yourself or the
    second workout won't be effective since you'll be too tired
    from the first one.

    Quoted message said:


    If you were in my shoes, how would you schedule your
    workouts?

    In my triathlon days I would run (my strength) 5 days a week
    with 1 or perhaps 2 speed workouts during the week. I would
    bike at least 1 day during the week (20-30 miles per ride)
    and a long ride (40-60 miles) on the weekends. Occasionally
    I'd do a short ride after a long run on Sundays.

    If you want to be good at both you really need to focus on
    quality than quantity. A 4 hour tempo ride is going to kill
    your 10 mile long run the next day. If you want to do
    biathlons (I hate that other word) then find out how far the
    bike leg is and don't ride longer than 10 or 15 miles beyond
    that. Another option is to go with your strength. Make
    yourself a very fast cyclist and an adequite runner. That
    was my strategy, I'd maintain 20 mph on the bike pass a few
    people and get passed by others and then still be able to
    maintain 6 minute per mile on the run. Of course my 4 minute
    transitions killed me.

    Quoted message said:


    My running related goals include a sub 20:00 5k, a sub
    1:40 half marathon, perhaps a sub 5:30 mile, and perhaps
    some duathlons.

    If you want to focus on running run and don't ride as much.
    I can do 2 shortish (20-40 miles) rides per week and
    maintain excellent running fitness. I've always found that
    my running is so much better than my cycling, guys who drop
    me on a bike can't keep up with my running training pace.
    What I mean is that riding is nice cross training but it
    will interfere with some top end running workouts. Don't
    expect to be able to ride yourself into running shape. If
    you can live with 2 rides a week then you should be able to
    run your goals.

    Andy

  6. James P. Smith wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    My primary sport is cycling.

    My question involves the balancing of running and
    cycling with a

    Quoted message said:

    focus on improving both.

    Quoted message said:


    So the question is, are the running interval or tempo
    sessions after my strenuous cycling workouts improving my
    speed or are they a waste of time? I'm sure the benefit
    wouldn't be as great as if I was focusing on running only.
    My typical cycling schedule is

    Monday - off Tuesday - moderate to hard (tempo, LT
    intervals, or anaerobic intervals), 60-150 minutes
    Wednesday - easy 45-60 minute spin Thursday - moderate to
    hard (tempo, LT intervals, or anaerobic intervals), 60-
    150 minutes Friday - easy 45-60 minute spin Saturday -
    long ride with mix of easy to anaerobic, 120-240 minutes
    Sunday - long ride with mix of easy to anaerobic, 120-240
    minutes My typical run schedule these days has me running
    on only 3 days:

    Tuesday - tempo or 1-mile LT intervals (1/4 mile rest
    period), 5-7 miles total running usually within 30-45
    minutes of the bike workout Thursday - either moderate (sub
    tempo) or tempo run of 5-7 miles, usually 30-45 minutes
    after riding Sunday - long run of 10-15 miles, usually in
    the evening (6+ hours after cycling)

    Quoted message said:


    If you were in my shoes, how would you schedule your
    workouts?

    From my perspective as a triathlete, you'll have to give up
    something on the bike if you want to do serious training on
    the run. But that being said, I think, based on your no
    biking experience in Japan, that you could meet your goals
    by just easing off on the bike for a week or so before the
    race, though the half might take a little more dedicated
    training. My impression is that you are doing too much hard
    stuff on Tues and Thurs. I would only try the hard run stuff
    on the days when the bike time was under 90 minutes or so.
    My experience is that in terms of muscle recovery it isn't
    too bad to mix run and bike, since different muscle groups
    are involved. If I were doing roughly what you are doing I
    would drop the Sunday ride (though I know --or at least suspect--
    that it is a group ride where the social aspect is
    important) since it doesn't add much to what you get from
    your Sat. ride and I would concentrate on running on Sunday
    to improve the quality of the run workout. I would also
    experiment with moving one of the run works to either Wed.
    or Fri--probably Fri. An alternative approach would be to
    throw in a cycling-light, running heavy week about every
    third or fourth week.

    Take this for what it's worth (probably what you paid
    for it) Bill

  7. 5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode. In
    fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.

    "Carlos Jones" <[email hidden]>
    wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    SwStudio said:

    Your five minute intervals are actually aerobic, and very
    much so. Anaerobic activity is such that does not depend
    on oxygen.

    Here we go again...

    His 6 x 5 min sessions on his bike will - if done as hard
    as I suspect
    - most certainly have an anaerobic component.

    Just 'cause you toddle around in a happy daze when you're
    doing your 'intervals' does not mean that the rest of us
    mimic your euphoric state when conducting ours.

  8. "Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
    In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.

    It certainly would be - I've recently started doing my
    intervals based on time rather than distance, like the
    above. It seems to be a more accurate way of steadily
    adjusting the training load as the weeks (and myself,
    hopefully) progress!

    cheers,
    --
    David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
    insecure people are the ones you see, putting other people
    down constantly."

  9. On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:11:17 GMT, "Sam" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
    In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.

    Although - at first sight - our application of the laws of
    biology appears to differ significantly, I suspect this
    confusion is more a case of your inability to use language
    correctly.

  10. Emily Jane Bronte wrote:

    I would have thought you might favor Charlotte or Anne
    rather then the more popular Emily.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
    In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.

    Although - at first sight - our application of the laws of
    biology appears to differ significantly, I suspect this
    confusion is more a case of your inability to use language
    correctly.

    Is there some part of Sam's statement we can translate into
    Rhodesian Ridgeback to increase your comprehension?

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

  11. On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:12:06 GMT, Doug Freese <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Emily Jane Bronte wrote:

    I would have thought you might favor Charlotte or Anne
    rather then the more popular Emily.

    I'm a sucker for a babe, you know that. Apparently, she was
    the prettiest.

  12. [email hidden] (amh) wrote in message news:<2b961d1-
    [email hidden]>... ...

    Quoted message said:

    run the next day. If you want to do biathlons (I hate that
    other word)


    ....

    Wether you hate it or not, the correct word is duathlon.
    Biathlon would belong to the skiers forum.

    Welcome to the biathlon world: biathlonworld.combiathlonworld.com

  13. Emily Jane Bronte <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm a sucker for a babe, you know that.

    Yes, your probation officer warned us of your
    'inclinations'.

  14. Sam said:

    5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
    In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.

    Surely in any type of hard workout there's going to be an
    anaerobic element? Sure, as the duration of the exercise,
    the proportion of that exercise that is "anaerobic" will
    diminish but it's still there.

    When I finish any sort of rep session, I'm gasping, not
    just breathing hard. Why? Because I've built up an oxygen
    debt. If I wasn't using any of my anaerobic reserves, I'd
    be doing no more than breathing as hard as I was at the
    halfway point say.

    Tim

    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
    rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
    justgiving.comspeyside or
    justgiving.comspeyside if you're a UK tax payer.

  15. Sam said:

    5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
    In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.

    Surely in any type of hard workout there's going to be an
    anaerobic element? Sure, as the duration of the exercise,
    the proportion of that exercise that is "anaerobic" will
    diminish but it's still there.

    When I finish any sort of rep session, I'm gasping, not
    just breathing hard. Why? Because I've built up an oxygen
    debt. If I wasn't using any of my anaerobic reserves, I'd
    be doing no more than breathing as hard as I was at the
    halfway point say.

    Tim

    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
    rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
    justgiving.comspeyside or
    justgiving.comspeyside if you're a UK tax payer.

  16. Quoted message said:

    Take this for what it's worth (probably what you paid for
    it) Bill


    Appreciate all the posts but yours was the best answer to
    his question.

    (another Bill)

  17. Tim Downie said:

    Surely in any type of hard workout there's going to be an
    anaerobic element?

    To suggest that to the 'experts' on rec.running is
    heresy, Tim.

  18. "Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message

    Quoted message said:
    Sam said:

    5 min is a highly aerobic effort regardless of the mode.
    In fact, 6x5min would be an excellent VO2max workout.

    Surely in any type of hard workout there's going to be an
    anaerobic


    element?

    Quoted message said:

    Sure, as the duration of the exercise, the proportion of
    that exercise


    that

    Quoted message said:

    is "anaerobic" will diminish but it's still there.

    When I finish any sort of rep session, I'm gasping, not
    just breathing


    hard.

    Quoted message said:

    Why? Because I've built up an oxygen debt. If I wasn't
    using any of my anaerobic reserves, I'd be doing no more
    than breathing as hard as I was


    at

    Quoted message said:

    the halfway point say.

    You've got it backwards. You are using aerobic power to
    reach oxygen debt. The gasping for air is caused by the
    body's failure in providing enough oxygen to continue.
    There's a small anaerobic element, but overwhelmingly you
    are stressing the aerobic system in this situation.

    The training stimulus would show results in this area,
    accordingly, as the goal of this workout would be to improve
    the ability to stay under lactate threshold longer/faster,
    i.e. maintain aerobic status.

    cheers,
    --
    David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
    insecure people are the ones you see, putting other people
    down constantly."

  19. SwStudio said:

    You've got it backwards. You are using aerobic power to
    reach oxygen debt. The gasping for air is caused by the
    body's failure in providing enough oxygen to continue.
    There's a small anaerobic element, but overwhelmingly you
    are stressing the aerobic system in this situation.

    Told you. Forget everything you learned at med school, the
    rec.runners know better.

  20. "Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (amh) wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    ...

    Quoted message said:

    run the next day. If you want to do biathlons (I hate
    that other word)


    ....

    Wether you hate it or not, the correct word is duathlon.
    Biathlon would belong to the skiers forum.

    Wouldn't it be more accurate to put biathlon in a shooting
    forum? After all its the shooting that defines the sport,
    not the menas of locomotion betgween targets.

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