Pantani Article in Observer

Once again bullsh*t ,

I have a haematocrit of 53·7 % as normal - god alone knows what it would be on the descent of a long climb in hot weather and I´m not taking EPO and when I asked my cardiologist he said that up to and even excedeing 55 % is not that rare
: to say that because a man bleeding to death and being given only plasma or a saline drip was taking drugs because his blood was getting " thinner " is sloppy thinking in the extreme .

Mind , as always , you if you look for evidence of a theory you will always find it - especially if you ignore the facts that don´t fit .

When did some people , especially the english , aussies and yanks get to be such puritanical hypocrits ? just because , under english law , you can´t libel the dead don´t stop it being libel .

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by timdanaher
Apologies if this has already been covered:

A very interesting and thorough article by Matt Rendell appeared in Sunday's Observer (UK) on the death of Pantani.

The most striking part of the article (if true, and why not?) were Pantani's blood readings after the Milan-Turin crash on 18th October. Paraphrasing slightly here:

"on arrival [at hospital] doctors were startled to discover blood values that were abnormal, almost bizarre: his haematocrit...was 60 percent (50 per cent is high): his haemoglobin was 20.8g per 100 ml (18g is noteworthy). These values then plummeted: on 25th October with a 15.9 percent haematocrit and 5.8g haemoglobin, it took a transfusion to save his life."

The implications are pretty clear: although Pantani was never found guilty of taking proscribed substances, there are no physiological processes that could bring about these changes naturally. Taking EPO did not cause Pantani's death. However, his self-knowledge of what he had done -- or felt that he was forced to do -- to scale the heights surely brought on the depression that led to the awful downward spiral that ended his life.

I'm getting a little tired of all the hand wringing and breast beating that seems to be accompanying Pantani's demise -- especially after reading the letters pages in the latest comics.

That Pantani was a natural talent -- as a climber -- is indisputable. However his victories in the grand tours were ultimately built on sand.

You're getting tired of all the nadwringing and breast beating ?
Oh dear !
How trying, I'm sure it is for you to have to read all those tributes to Marco Pantani.
It's not as if his death is important, now is it ?

When you come back down to the real world : there are several important issues to consider.

First of all haemocrit levels exceeding 50% are not "unusual" and
such readings do not denote drug abuse as you imply.
Haemocrit levels differ within populations.
I can be at altitude for three days and my haemocrit level reading can differ by as much as 20% between readings taken at sea level and those taken at altitude.
Secondly, a person can have a natural disposition to having a high
haemocrit level - as far as I recall Santiago Botero's readings are above 50% as a natural consequence of his physical make up.
And finally, I posted the same article about Pantani on Sunday last on a separate theread in this Forum : before plagiarising
the article in the Observer, I once again attach the link so as people can read the article in it's context and through your editing version of the truth.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,6903,1161002,00.html

One final word : try and have some respect for the recently departed !

One final word : try and have some respect for the recently departed ! [/B][/QUOTE]

GOD BLESS

Say Marco was abusing and then went on with his knowlege of drugs out there to take it a step further. No one really questions the death of Michael Hutchins (sp?) (INXS) for e.g yet he was a star in his own right. Can we all not just sit quietly for at least a minute to remeber 'El Pirate's' triumphs as a cyclist let alone a human being with parents and loved ones ?

Pantani shatered Peletons to pieces on major climbs and in my personal opinion he seemed to feel he could not get the form that he had in past days but does that matter? We remember him and will never forget.

Can we just not sit quietly and think that an inspiration has DIED and that we need to pay tribute to that life. Yes, I am 100% anti doping but that doesn't seem to matter so much when a parents' child is now dead.

If you don't agree then I have a few websites on offer that may open your eyes. None of us here unless the Ullrich's, Armstrongs' et al are reading. They could tell us all how life really is within the Peleton let alone to carry the Maillot Jaune.

Please, just have some respect for an accident or deliberate life that has been taken from us.

Sit and think instead of getting furious.

Love,

Alice x

Indeed, I think all cycling fans were saddened at the the passing of Marco Pantani.
For myself, I have to say that the Observer article made very, very sad reading
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/...1161002,00.html

I do console myself with the fact that I at least have plenty of footage of the man on tape and when the TDF was here in Ireland, Marco did take the time to pose for a photo for me.
That's my memory of the man !

Celebrate his life ? For me this is an easy one, I just watch the tapes and wonder how the hell he was able to climb so well !!
It was truly astonishing to behold.

I climbed Alp D'Huez some years ago - just to test myself to see if
I was somehow near the pros (as you do !!!!!).
It took me 1hour 22 mins to climb 13km climb.
So when I watch the 1998 TDF and Marco blasting up there
in 37m (average speed 20kmph or 12 mph !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), I smile
and acknowledge the little man.
This is after nearly 2.5 weeks of cycling in his legs as well.
Celebrate his life ?
I watch his double stage win in the Alpes in 1995 and BigMig
doing his best to try to limit the damage at Alp D'Huez and Guize Neige !
Or what about Columbia in the world championship in 1995, when
Marco made Indurain and Olano fight all the way to the line !
BigMig punched the air that day - relieved that he managed to hold off Pantani, so that Olano could win.
On the podium at the end of the race, BigMig was especially
warm to Marco, if you watch the footage, BigMig embraces Marco as if to say "sorry, I did what I did but I am sorry !".
Nice times, happier, happier times.

Sleep well, Marco.