Ketosis

[email hidden] [email hidden] [email hidden] Once
upon a time, our fellow John S rambled on about "Ketosis."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
thusly ...

Quoted message said:

I'm a healthy 24 year old with no family history of heart
problems under 55.

That pretty much explains the low IQ problem.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Just my opinion. But, I am *right* as usual!

John S <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there are
any knowledgable people out there that can explain the
above subject to me in more detail. I would like to

try

Quoted message said:

it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
information out there to back up trying to go into a state
of ketosis.

So if one or two or even twenty people here say, hey, it
works for me, you'll go ahead and starve your body of
carbohydrates until it burns protein? Not trying to flame
you, just checking your logic. Something about us humans
seems to trust an anecdote ("my grandmother smoked until she
was 90"😉 rather than research across a population. I did
some research on ketosis on the net a while back and found a
lot of info out there. It does seem to take away a lot of
weight for people with serious obesity. I think there's too
much potential for damage. While the rest of the body can
switch to ketosis for energy, the brain needs glucose. There
are people who think that ketosis is actually a natural
state, and there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at
the NIH who is trying to prove this, that we as prehistoric
humans regularly starved, and the agricultural revolution
has locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that the
brain works more efficiently on ketones.

Here's Veech's position: niaaa.nih.govintramuraOpen ↗
l/web_lmbb/LMBB%20PDF_Folder/VeechIUBMBLif e2001_241.pdf

Ketosis may cause heart problems:ttp://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
diet.htm

And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
thedietchannel.comweight.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular weight
training. Is this lifestyle choice a bad one cause of low
Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from anyone, or especially
people who are quite sports oreintated, please post
feedback. I'm a

healthy

Quoted message said:

24 year old with no family history of heart problems
under 55.

-So why fix it if it ain't broke?

John Claude

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
energy, the brain needs glucose.

The brain can use ketones, too. And any additional glucose
requirements can be easily met by protein, which converts to
glucose, just less efficiently and completely than carbs.

There is no such thing in human nutrition as an essential
carbohydrate, just essential fats and proteins.

Some carbs can be part of a healthy diet, but they aren't
necessary.

Susan

"John Claude" <urajzed@NO*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John S <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there are
any knowledgable people out

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that can explain the above subject to me in more detail.
I would like to

try

Quoted message said:

it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
information out there

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

back up trying to go into a state of ketosis.

So if one or two or even twenty people here say, hey, it
works for me, you'll go ahead and starve your body of
carbohydrates until it burns protein?

Burns *protein*?

You are full of [censored], sonny.

Ketones are fat fragments: free fatty acids are cut into two-
and four-carbon fragments called ketones or ketone bodies.

Ketosis is nothing to do with 'burning protein'.

Keep away from Usenet until you know what you're talking
about: until that time, you're a danger.

Quoted message said:

Not trying to flame you, just checking your logic.

No: you aren't able to, because you don't know what you're
talking about. Go away.

Quoted message said:

Something about us humans seems to trust an anecdote ("my
grandmother smoked until

she

Quoted message said:

was 90"😉 rather than research across a population. I did
some research on ketosis on the net a while back and found
a lot of info out there. It

does

Quoted message said:

seem to take away a lot of weight for people with serious
obesity. I

think

Quoted message said:

there's too much potential for damage.

Who gives a [censored] what you think? You've already proved that
you don't know what you're talking about. Go away.

Quoted message said:

While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
energy, the brain needs glucose. There are people

who

Quoted message said:

think that ketosis is actually a natural state, and
there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at the NIH who
is trying to prove this, that

we

Quoted message said:

as prehistoric humans regularly starved, and the
agricultural revolution

has

Quoted message said:

locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that the
brain works more efficiently on ketones.

Here's Veech's position:

niaaa.nih.govLMBB%20PDF FolOpen ↗
der/VeechIUBMBLif

Quoted message said:

e2001_241.pdf

Ketosis may cause heart problems:p://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
diet.htm

And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
thedietchannel.comweight.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular weight
training. Is this lifestyle choice a bad one cause of low
Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from anyone, or
especially people who are quite sports oreintated, please
post feedback. I'm a

healthy

Quoted message said:

24 year old with no family history of heart problems
under 55.

-So why fix it if it ain't broke?

You don't know what you're talking about. Go away.
You're a danger.

M.

"Susan " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
energy, the brain needs glucose.

The brain can use ketones, too. And any additional glucose
requirements

can be

Quoted message said:

easily met by protein, which converts to glucose, just
less efficiently

and

Quoted message said:

completely than carbs.

There is no such thing in human nutrition as an essential
carbohydrate,

just

Quoted message said:

essential fats and proteins.

Some carbs can be part of a healthy diet, but they aren't
necessary.

Susan

Thanks for the input John s

"Mark D." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"John Claude" <urajzed@NO*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John S <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there
are any knowledgable people out

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that can explain the above subject to me in more
detail. I would like

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

try

Quoted message said:

it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
information out there

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

back up trying to go into a state of ketosis.

So if one or two or even twenty people here say, hey, it
works for me, you'll go ahead and starve your body of
carbohydrates until it burns protein?

Burns *protein*?

You are full of [censored], sonny.

Ketones are fat fragments: free fatty acids are cut
into two- and four-carbon fragments called ketones or
ketone bodies.

Ketosis is nothing to do with 'burning protein'.

Keep away from Usenet until you know what you're talking
about: until that time, you're a danger.

Quoted message said:

Not trying to flame you, just checking your logic.

No: you aren't able to, because you don't know what you're
talking about.

Go

Quoted message said:

away.

Quoted message said:

Something about us humans seems to trust an anecdote
("my grandmother smoked until

she

Quoted message said:

was 90"😉 rather than research across a population. I did
some research

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ketosis on the net a while back and found a lot of info
out there. It

does

Quoted message said:

seem to take away a lot of weight for people with
serious obesity. I

think

Quoted message said:

there's too much potential for damage.

Who gives a [censored] what you think? You've already proved
that you don't know what you're talking about. Go away.

Quoted message said:

While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
energy, the brain needs glucose. There are people

who

Quoted message said:

think that ketosis is actually a natural state, and
there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at the NIH
who is trying to prove this,

that

Quoted message said:

we

Quoted message said:

as prehistoric humans regularly starved, and the
agricultural revolution

has

Quoted message said:

locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that the
brain works

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

efficiently on ketones.

Here's Veech's position:

niaaa.nih.govLMBB%20PDF FolOpen ↗
der/VeechIUBMBLif

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

e2001_241.pdf

Ketosis may cause heart problems://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
diet.htm

And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
thedietchannel.comweight.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular
weight training. Is this lifestyle choice a bad

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cause of low Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from
anyone, or

especially

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people who are quite sports oreintated, please post
feedback. I'm a

healthy

Quoted message said:

24 year old with no family history of heart problems
under 55.

-So why fix it if it ain't broke?

You don't know what you're talking about. Go away. You're
a danger.

M.

Cheers Mark, good to see someone has some knowledge out
there. John S

He is a troll of the lousiest order. Ignore the flame.

Big deal so you had a slip of the tongue.

"John S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark D." <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:xet2c.2445$sq2.1996@newsfe2-
gui.server.ntli.net...

Quoted message said:

"John Claude" <urajzed@NO*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John S <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there
> are any knowledgable people out

there

Quoted message said:

> that can explain the above subject to me in more
> detail. I would

like

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

try
> it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
> information out

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

> back up trying to go into a state of ketosis.

So if one or two or even twenty people here say, hey,
it works for me, you'll go ahead and starve your body
of carbohydrates until it burns protein?

Burns *protein*?

You are full of [censored], sonny.

Ketones are fat fragments: free fatty acids are cut into
two- and four-carbon fragments called ketones or ketone
bodies.

Ketosis is nothing to do with 'burning protein'.

Keep away from Usenet until you know what you're talking
about: until

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time, you're a danger.

Quoted message said:

Not trying to flame you, just checking your logic.

No: you aren't able to, because you don't know what
you're talking

about.

Quoted message said:

Go

Quoted message said:

away.

Quoted message said:

Something about us humans seems to trust an anecdote
("my grandmother smoked

until

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

she

Quoted message said:

was 90"😉 rather than research across a population. I
did some

research

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ketosis on the net a while back and found a lot of
info out there. It

does

Quoted message said:

seem to take away a lot of weight for people with
serious obesity. I

think

Quoted message said:

there's too much potential for damage.

Who gives a [censored] what you think? You've already proved
that you don't

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

what you're talking about. Go away.

Quoted message said:

While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
energy, the brain needs glucose. There are

people

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who

Quoted message said:

think that ketosis is actually a natural state, and
there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at the NIH
who is trying to prove this,

that

Quoted message said:

we

Quoted message said:

as prehistoric humans regularly starved, and the
agricultural

revolution

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has

Quoted message said:

locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that
the brain works

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

efficiently on ketones.

Here's Veech's position:

niaaa.nih.govLMBB%20PDF FolOpen ↗
der/VeechIUBMBLif

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

e2001_241.pdf

Ketosis may cause heart problems:www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
diet.htm

And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
thedietchannel.comweight.htmOpen ↗

>I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular
>weight training. Is this lifestyle choice a bad

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> cause of low Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from
> anyone, or

especially

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> people who are quite sports oreintated, please post
> feedback. I'm a
healthy
> 24 year old with no family history of heart problems
> under 55.

-So why fix it if it ain't broke?

You don't know what you're talking about. Go away.
You're a danger.

M.

Cheers Mark, good to see someone has some knowledge out
there. John S

"Pizza Girl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He is a troll of the lousiest order.

Sure: that's why *I'm* posting corrective factual
information and *you're* posting half-understood hearsay
[censored] and aggressive, self-deluding fantasy.

Take your medication, baby.

M.

Quoted message said:

Ignore the flame.

Big deal so you had a slip of the tongue.

"John S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark D." <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:xet2c.2445$sq2.1996@newsfe2-
gui.server.ntli.net...

Quoted message said:

"John Claude" <urajzed@NO*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...
> John S <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
> > Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if
> > there are any knowledgable people

out

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there
> > that can explain the above subject to me in more
> > detail. I would

like

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

> try
> > it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
> > information out

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to
> > back up trying to go into a state of ketosis.
>
> So if one or two or even twenty people here say,
> hey, it works for

me,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> you'll go ahead and starve your body of
> carbohydrates until it burns protein?

Burns *protein*?

You are full of [censored], sonny.

Ketones are fat fragments: free fatty acids are cut
into two- and four-carbon fragments called ketones or
ketone bodies.

Ketosis is nothing to do with 'burning protein'.

Keep away from Usenet until you know what you're
talking about: until

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time, you're a danger.

> Not trying to flame you, just checking your logic.

No: you aren't able to, because you don't know what
you're talking

about.

Quoted message said:

Go

Quoted message said:

away.

> Something about us humans seems to trust an anecdote
> ("my grandmother smoked

until

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

she
> was 90"😉 rather than research across a population. I
> did some

research

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

> ketosis on the net a while back and found a lot of
> info out there.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

does
> seem to take away a lot of weight for people with
> serious obesity.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

think
> there's too much potential for damage.

Who gives a [censored] what you think? You've already proved
that you don't

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

what you're talking about. Go away.

> While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
> energy, the brain needs glucose. There are

people

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who
> think that ketosis is actually a natural state, and
> there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at the
> NIH who is trying to prove this,

that

Quoted message said:

we
> as prehistoric humans regularly starved, and the
> agricultural

revolution

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has
> locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that
> the brain works

more

Quoted message said:

> efficiently on ketones.
>
> Here's Veech's position:
>

niaaa.nih.govLMBB%20PDF FolOpen ↗
der/VeechIUBMBLif

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> e2001_241.pdf
>
> Ketosis may cause heart problems:
>

ttp://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
diet.htm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
> thedietchannel.comweight.htmOpen ↗
>
> >I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular
> >weight training. Is this lifestyle choice a

bad

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one

Quoted message said:

> > cause of low Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from
> > anyone, or

especially

Quoted message said:

> > people who are quite sports oreintated, please
> > post feedback. I'm

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> healthy
> > 24 year old with no family history of heart
> > problems under 55.
>
> -So why fix it if it ain't broke?
>

You don't know what you're talking about. Go away.
You're a danger.

M.

Cheers Mark, good to see someone has some knowledge out
there. John S

Pizza Girl <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He is a troll of the lousiest order. Ignore the flame.

I was beginning to wonder if this was a default attitude on
this NG for dealing with someone who says something
incorrect. I just associated, as I was writing the sentence,
ketosis with starvation and protein catabolism, as the
medical establishment has for years. But I can change,
really I can.

I don't claim to be an authority, but let's listen to
someone who may be:
suite101.com77461Open ↗

"Maria C. Linder is on the faculty at California State
University Fullerton, California in the Department of
Chemistry and Biochemistry. All quotes are from her
textbook; "Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism: with
clinical applications", Maria C. Linder. pages 87-109.
Chapter Eight: Nutrition and Metabolism of Protein."

"Early in fasting glycogen reserves are depleted, and
protein (mainly from muscle) becomes the major source of
carbon for glucose production. Glucose is required in
substantial amounts by blood cells and the central nervous
system on a daily basis. There is also an initiation of
ketone body production by the liver to provide a more water
soluble form of fat-derived fuel."

"DIETARY PROTEIN LARGELY OR FULLY SUBSTITUTES FOR MUSCLE
PROTEIN IN GLUCONEOGENESIS."

""The body adapts to starvation and reduces the need for protein-
dependent gluconeogenesis by boosting its production of
ketones, a fuel ALTERNATIVE to glucose for MOST CELLS.

Circulating ketones reach maximum levels after about ten
days of fasting and now substitute for much of the glucose
requirement of the central nervous system. This drastically
reduces the need for catabolism of muscle protein."

"With reduced protein catabolism, urinary nitrogen
excretion also declines. And there is a shift from the
excretion of urea to a predominance of ammonia loss. This
shift toward ammonia versus urea parallels the increased
production and excretion of keto acids, and serves to
MAINTAIN ACID / BASE BALANCE."

"The overall point is that muscle is a valuable reserve of
carbons that can be used for glucose production when needed.
However the body prevents excessive losses of muscle protein
over long periods of fasting by adapting the central nervous
system to utilization of ketone bodies for fuel."

What I take from this is that the body may simultaneously
turn to muscle protein and dietary protein while it is
adjusting to ketosis. Once ketosis is in full swing, then
the need for protein catabolism decreases. Is it less than
when the body was a glucose machine (since there is always a
baseline of protein catabolisis going on at any time- right
Mark? Some amino acids are known as ketogenic*, right Mark?
)? I don't know. Does anyone have the answer for that? It
could be different for each person. Is this a good idea for
bodybuilders? I don't know. I think maybe- but then I'm not
sure, because I haven't taken the time to know everything-
that some bodybuilders, some athletes, some of the greatest
sports performers ever have been able to do what they do
without ketosis. Maybe our good troll knows, and maybe he'd
like to teach us something, or would he rather spew more
profanity and poison about the group?

*"Carbon skeletons of ketogenic amino acids can be
catabolized for energy in Krebs Cycle, or converted to
ketone bodies or fatty acids." 216.239.57.104searchOpen ↗
?q=cache:mY7HOp5_icIJ:www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molb iochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/23-
aacarb.ppt+ketogenic+amino+acids&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I will admit my error on the brain's use of glucose: it will
use ketones, and from what I've read, the brain and many
other organs will prefer to use ketones for fuel when they
are available. This may support the argument that ketosis is
"normal," but maybe it is just another way to control the
level of ketones in the body - i.e. "get rid of these
first." I don't know. Just thought I'd throw it out there
for discussion. Am I allowed to discuss things here, with
the possibility of making an error, or do I have to know a
lot of things and insult people that don't?

The gist of my original post was only this: yes, be
skeptical. Yeah, I'm a danger.

JC

"John Claude" <urajzed@NO*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pizza Girl <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c59a-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He is a troll of the lousiest order. Ignore the flame.

I was beginning to wonder if this was a default attitude
on this NG for dealing with someone who says something
incorrect. I just associated, as

I

Quoted message said:

was writing the sentence, ketosis with starvation and
protein catabolism, as the medical establishment has for
years. But I can change, really I

can.

Quoted message said:

I don't claim to be an authority, but let's listen to
someone who may be:
suite101.com77461Open ↗

"Maria C. Linder is on the faculty at California State
University Fullerton, California in the Department of
Chemistry and Biochemistry. All quotes are from her
textbook; "Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism:

with

Quoted message said:

clinical applications", Maria C. Linder. pages 87-109.
Chapter Eight: Nutrition and Metabolism of Protein."

"Early in fasting glycogen reserves are depleted, and
protein (mainly from muscle) becomes the major source of
carbon for glucose production. Glucose is required in
substantial amounts by blood cells and the central nervous
system on a daily basis. There is also an initiation of
ketone body production by the liver to provide a more
water soluble form of

fat-derived

Quoted message said:

fuel."

"DIETARY PROTEIN LARGELY OR FULLY SUBSTITUTES FOR MUSCLE
PROTEIN IN GLUCONEOGENESIS."

""The body adapts to starvation and reduces the need for
protein-dependent gluconeogenesis by boosting its
production of ketones, a fuel ALTERNATIVE

to

Quoted message said:

glucose for MOST CELLS.

Circulating ketones reach maximum levels after about ten
days of fasting

and

Quoted message said:

now substitute for much of the glucose requirement of the
central nervous system. This drastically reduces the need
for catabolism of muscle

protein."

Quoted message said:

"With reduced protein catabolism, urinary nitrogen
excretion also

declines.

Quoted message said:

And there is a shift from the excretion of urea to a
predominance of

ammonia

Quoted message said:

loss. This shift toward ammonia versus urea parallels the
increased production and excretion of keto acids, and
serves to MAINTAIN ACID / BASE BALANCE."

"The overall point is that muscle is a valuable reserve of
carbons that

can

Quoted message said:

be used for glucose production when needed. However the
body prevents excessive losses of muscle protein over long
periods of fasting by

adapting

Quoted message said:

the central nervous system to utilization of ketone bodies
for fuel."

What I take from this is that the body may simultaneously
turn to muscle protein and dietary protein while it is
adjusting to ketosis. Once

ketosis

Quoted message said:

is in full swing, then the need for protein catabolism
decreases. Is it less than when the body was a glucose
machine (since there is always a baseline of protein
catabolisis going on at any time- right Mark? Some amino
acids are known as ketogenic*, right Mark? )? I don't
know. Does anyone have the answer for that? It could be
different for each person.

Is

Quoted message said:

this a good idea for bodybuilders? I don't know. I think
maybe- but

then

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure, because I haven't taken the time to know
everything- that

some

Quoted message said:

bodybuilders, some athletes, some of the greatest sports
performers ever have been able to do what they do without
ketosis. Maybe our good troll knows, and maybe he'd like
to teach us something, or would he rather spew more
profanity and poison about the group?

*"Carbon skeletons of ketogenic amino acids can be
catabolized for energy

in

Quoted message said:

Krebs Cycle, or converted to ketone bodies or fatty
acids."

216.239.57.104searchOpen ↗
du/dept/bcbp/molb

Quoted message said:

iochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/23-
aacarb.ppt+ketogenic+amino+acids&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I will admit my error on the brain's use of glucose: it
will use ketones, and from what I've read, the brain and
many other organs will prefer to

use

Quoted message said:

ketones for fuel when they are available. This may
support the argument that ketosis is "normal," but maybe
it is just another way to control the level of ketones
in the body - i.e. "get rid of these first." I don't
know. Just thought I'd throw it out there for
discussion. Am I allowed

to

Quoted message said:

discuss things here, with the possibility of making an
error, or do I have to know a lot of things and insult
people that don't?

The gist of my original post was only this: yes, be
skeptical. Yeah, I'm

a

Quoted message said:

danger.

JC

Thanks JC, You did well to correct some parts of your
earlier mistake. Could it be the efficiency of the body to
utilise ketones the result of why some people tend to stay
leaner then others (once genetics and muscle mass is ruled
out). Just a topic of discussion. John S