Variable quality Shimano

MartinM said:

Has anyone else noticed this? I recently sent off for a HG70 cassette (quote, as used by 105) and
when I got it back it was cheaply finished, riveted together and nowhere near as good as the one I
got on my RX100 group when I bought the bike. I'm sure it will work just as well but be aware that
there are inferior quality groupsets out there. It is a shame as most of the stuff I get mail
order off the web is top quailty and very reasonable. caveat emptor

I have not noticed it but I haven't bought parts for a while, thats not strictly true, I got a LX
cassette recently but I didn't really know what to exepct from this range.

What did you expect ? Loose sprockets ? It what way do you consider the finish cheap ? I am
interested as I will be buying some cassettes soon.

--
The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely. mseries.freeserve.co.ukmseries.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, MartinM <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Has anyone else noticed this? I recently sent off for a HG70 cassette (quote, as used by 105) and
when I got it back it was cheaply finished, riveted together and nowhere near as good as the one I
got on my RX100 group when I bought the bike. I'm sure it will work just as well but be aware that
there are inferior quality groupsets out there. It is a shame as most of the stuff I get mail order
off the web is top quailty and very reasonable. caveat emptor

Interesting. It depends how many sprockets you have as to whether that is the one used with 105. 105
9 Speed has it's own 105 cassette which is the same qualityish as the LX (If you're a mountain
biker!). I think 8 speed 105 is still available in small quantities if you look around but it's been
a while since I was in the industry. If it's 7 speed then HG70 is about the best cassette you can
get for it, and it is a mid range cassette (Sitting just below Deore in the mountain bike range),

Never was 100% on the road stuff though 🙂

Who told you it was 105?

I'm ready to stand corrected 🙂

--
Thomas Letherby

Thomas Letherby <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, MartinM
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Has anyone else noticed this? I recently sent off for a HG70 cassette (quote, as used by 105) and
when I got it back it was cheaply finished, riveted together and nowhere near as good as the one
I got on my RX100 group when I bought the bike. I'm sure it will work just as well but be aware
that there are inferior quality groupsets out there. It is a shame as most of the stuff I get
mail order off the web is top quailty and very reasonable. caveat emptor

Interesting. It depends how many sprockets you have as to whether that is the one used with 105.
105 9 Speed has it's own 105 cassette which is the same qualityish as the LX (If you're a
mountain biker!). I think 8 speed 105 is still available in small quantities if you look around
but it's been a while since I was in the industry. If it's 7 speed then HG70 is about the best
cassette you can get for it, and it is a mid range cassette (Sitting just below Deore in the
mountain bike range),

Never was 100% on the road stuff though 🙂

Who told you it was 105?

I'm ready to stand corrected 🙂

I don't wish to divulge the supplier as I have had good service from them and am treating this as a
one-off, it's just that I expected screw together not riveted cassette, not that I'm going to take
it apart either. The point I was making is that there are obviously budget components which are made
up and probably fitted to mass market complete bikes (how else can they do them at the price, and
some of these are finding their way into the components market. Next time I will pay a bit more and
buy one from a shop where I can see it before I buy.

Quoted message said:

I don't wish to divulge the supplier as I have had good service from them and am treating this as
a one-off, it's just that I expected screw together not riveted cassette, not that I'm going to
take it apart either. The point I was making is that there are obviously budget components which
are made up and probably fitted to mass market complete bikes (how else can they do them at the
price, and some of these are finding their way into the components market. Next time I will pay a
bit more and buy one from a shop where I can see it before I buy.

Might be worth contacting them - if they're any good they'll send you a screwed together one out
without any hassle.

In message <[email hidden]>, MartinM <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I don't wish to divulge the supplier as I have had good service from them and am treating this as a
one-off, it's just that I expected screw together not riveted cassette, not that I'm going to take
it apart either. The point I was making is that there are obviously budget components which are
made up and probably fitted to mass market complete bikes (how else can they do them at the price,
and some of these are finding their way into the components market. Next time I will pay a bit more
and buy one from a shop where I can see it before I buy.

If it's the screw together part you're specifically after then AFAIK you'll be disappointed with
any Shimano. They all are riveted, the higher end ones having the larger cogs attached to an
aluminium carriage to save weight. Shimano to my (admittedly rather shaky now) knowledge don't make
a screwed together cassette and have not done for some years. (Or at least one that has to be filed
a bit to dissemble) I think SRAM's ones are riveted too. The only one I can think of that is (apart
from Campy, who I don't know either way and are probably the wrong spacing for your Shimano kit
anyway) is TA, which are just separate cogs and spacers, and don't use either bolts or rivets. TA
however are pricey, wear fairly rapidly and not recommended for heavy riders, being ultra light
aluminium kit.

The HG70 is fitted to many bikes, and is the same retail as OEM. It's a good piece of workhorse kit
and I've fitted many to bikes, including my own, with nary a complaint. It is however a mid range
component and is priced as such. If you want no-frills Shimano shifting and aren't terribly bothered
about weight then I'd personally recommend them! 🙂

I have to ask, why does it need to be screwed together, when Shimano don't sell the cogs
separately anymore?

--
Thomas Letherby

Thomas Letherby <[email hidden]> wrote in message snip

Quoted message said:

I have to ask, why does it need to be screwed together, when Shimano don't sell the cogs
separately anymore?

It doesn't, maybe the others I have are older, so were screwed together. They were also milled which
the new one isn't, but if they are all like that now that is ok. I have noticed that botom end
Shimano components have been getting more cheaply made over the years , and I have been informed
that it is due to the strong Yen (compare Sora to RSX, much more plastic and steel on Sora and they
are both bottom end road groups I thought, same with Deore which used to be top end). Is Campag
bottom end any better? (I remember the first Halfords all Campag bike for the 94 Tour, that was
pretty low end as I remember) I will have to dig deep and go for 105 in future.

"Thomas Letherby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Who told you it was 105?

I'm ready to stand corrected 🙂

Not a definitive answer I know but I've just bought an HG70 chain which says "105 7/8 speed" on the
packaging. Maybe some older 105 bits are now marketed as HG70?

tony R.

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't wish to divulge the supplier as I have had good service from them and am treating this as
a one-off, it's just that I expected screw together not riveted cassette, not that I'm going to
take it apart either. The point I was making is that there are obviously budget components which
are made up and probably fitted to mass market complete bikes (how else can they do them at the
price, and some of these are finding their way into the components market. Next time I will pay a
bit more and buy one from a shop where I can see it before I buy.

I'd check that your supplier has sent the right cassette. I've just received an HG70 7-speed
cassette (from Edinburgh Bicycle Coop - excellent service, I can recommend them) and it is
definitely screwed together. It has three bolts that a 4mm socket bit fits. Indeed the Shimano
service instructions enclosed with the cassette clearly shows this should be so whilst stating that
the HG50 cassette has the first 5 sprockets riveted together. Maybe you've got an HG50?

hope this helps,

tony R.

MartinM said:

I have noticed that botom end Shimano components have been getting more cheaply made over the
years , and I have been informed that it is due to the strong Yen (compare Sora to RSX, much more
plastic and steel on Sora and they are both bottom end road groups I thought, same with Deore
which used to be top end).

There's long been Deore LX and Deore XT above plain Deore.

Quoted message said:

Is Campag bottom end any better?

It looks better made to me but Xenon seems to be competing with Sora with its special shifters and
and steel chainrings. It does contain a bit of plastic but Campag's plastic is nice plastic! Xenon
has the edge in that it's 9-speed and the mechs are particularly good value. Mirage or Veloce is a
good place to start for the rest.

With a lot of low and mid range Campag, you actually get stuff which is remarkably similar to the
top groups for a fraction of the price (see the designs and part numbers in Campag's online Spare
Parts section). There's more substantial difference between the Shimano groups.

~PB

"tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Thomas Letherby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Who told you it was 105?

I'm ready to stand corrected 🙂

Not a definitive answer I know but I've just bought an HG70 chain which says "105 7/8 speed" on
the packaging. Maybe some older 105 bits are now marketed as HG70?

tony R.

As long as rivets are the only difference I'll live with it as long as it works.

Thanks

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

I have noticed that botom end Shimano components have been getting more cheaply made over the
years , and I have been informed that it is due to the strong Yen (compare Sora to RSX, much
more plastic and steel on Sora and they are both bottom end road groups I thought, same with
Deore which used to be top end).

There's long been Deore LX and Deore XT above plain Deore.

Quoted message said:

Is Campag bottom end any better?

It looks better made to me but Xenon seems to be competing with Sora with its special shifters and
and steel chainrings. It does contain a bit of plastic but Campag's plastic is nice plastic! Xenon
has the edge in that it's 9-speed and the mechs are particularly good value. Mirage or Veloce is a
good place to start for the rest.

I saw a Bianchi in Evans today with Xenon, not as nice as Sora IMHO, but then I'm not a Campag user.
I don't think they use plastic to save money paticularly, just omit alloy to make the higher up
groups look better perhaps. Is it my imagination or are there now more ranges per manufacturer?

"tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't wish to divulge the supplier as I have had good service from them and am treating this
as a one-off, it's just that I expected screw together not riveted cassette, not that I'm going
to take it apart either. The point I was making is that there are obviously budget components
which are made up and probably fitted to mass market complete bikes (how else can they do them
at the price, and some of these are finding their way into the components market. Next time I
will pay a bit more and buy one from a shop where I can see it before I buy.

I'd check that your supplier has sent the right cassette. I've just received an HG70 7-speed
cassette (from Edinburgh Bicycle Coop - excellent service, I can recommend them) and it is
definitely screwed together. It has three bolts that a 4mm socket bit fits. Indeed the Shimano
service instructions enclosed with the cassette clearly shows this should be so whilst stating
that the HG50 cassette has the first 5 sprockets riveted together. Maybe you've got an HG50?

You could be right. I've checked the invoice and HG70 was ordered and paid for, but it does fit your
description of HG50. Hmmmm!

MartinM said:

I saw a Bianchi in Evans today with Xenon, not as nice as Sora IMHO, but then I'm not a
Campag user.

Sora STIs seem luxurious compared to Campag's but I'm not so impressed with the rest of the kit.
Apparently it actually works fine, though.

Quoted message said:

I don't think they use plastic to save money paticularly, just omit alloy to make the higher up
groups look better perhaps.

That's probably true.

Quoted message said:

Is it my imagination or are there now more ranges per manufacturer?

Shimano have only had five road groups for some time and Campag have had the same number (6) for
quite a few years now. They just shunt them around and change the names. For instance, Athena and
Avanti have effectively been replaced with Centaur (formerly Daytona) and Xenon.

There do seem to be a lot of Shimano MTB ranges - I don't keep up with all that.

~PB

[email hidden] (MartinM) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't wish to divulge the supplier as I have had good service from them and am treating this
as a one-off, it's just that I expected screw together not riveted cassette, not that I'm
going to take it apart either. The point I was making is that there are obviously budget
components which are made up and probably fitted to mass market complete bikes (how else can
they do them at the price, and some of these are finding their way into the components market.
Next time I will pay a bit more and buy one from a shop where I can see it before I buy.

I'd check that your supplier has sent the right cassette. I've just received an HG70 7-speed
cassette (from Edinburgh Bicycle Coop - excellent service, I can recommend them) and it is
definitely screwed together. It has three bolts that a 4mm socket bit fits. Indeed the Shimano
service instructions enclosed with the cassette clearly shows this should be so whilst stating
that the HG50 cassette has the first 5 sprockets riveted together. Maybe you've got an HG50?

You could be right. I've checked the invoice and HG70 was ordered and paid for, but it does fit
your description of HG50. Hmmmm!

Went back and checked the site, HG50 has a black lockring and 70 silver (which mine is) but they are
the same weight, so what am I paying the extra 7 quid for?

Re Campag, no surprise that the Japanese are better at the STI units (I prefer the whole way they
work, a big lever to shift up rather than the little one on Campag) but yes I would agree that the
alloy is nicer on Campag.

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (MartinM) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd check that your supplier has sent the right cassette. I've just

received

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an HG70 7-speed cassette (from Edinburgh Bicycle Coop - excellent

service, I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

can recommend them) and it is definitely screwed together. It has

three

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bolts that a 4mm socket bit fits. Indeed the Shimano service

instructions

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

enclosed with the cassette clearly shows this should be so whilst

stating

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that the HG50 cassette has the first 5 sprockets riveted together.

Maybe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you've got an HG50?

You could be right. I've checked the invoice and HG70 was ordered and paid for, but it does fit
your description of HG50. Hmmmm!

Went back and checked the site, HG50 has a black lockring and 70 silver (which mine is) but they
are the same weight, so what am I paying the extra 7 quid for?

I happen to have also just got an HG50 cassette for my other bike! The lockring is indeed grey/black
and helpfully has HG50 stamped on it. The EBC catalogue claims a 60g. weight advantage for the HG70
(like for like) and that the sprockets are chromed, unlike the HG50. I have no idea what advantage
this might give, but I can say it looks far nicer! These factors, along with the ability to
dismantle the cassette probably account for the price differerence. Whether they're worth it is of
course another matter. My tourer always gets HG70 because it always has and I've never had a problem
with it. I have to say the HG50 looks cheaper, to my inexpert eye. The sprockets have different
markings by the way. Both have combinations of letters and numbers depending on number of teeth, but
each combination on the HG70 is prefixed by a capital E - this does not appear on my HG50. Both my
cassettes are 7-speed. However, your experience might suggest there are two types of HG70 floating
about. Maybe old stock/new stock? If so which is which?

tony R.

On 29 Feb 2004 00:15:05 -0800, [email hidden] (MartinM) wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

HG50 has a black lockring and 70 silver (which mine is) but they are the same weight, so what am I
paying the extra 7 quid for?

A silver lockring?

IGMC...

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<LJk0c.5067 These factors,

Quoted message said:

along with the ability to dismantle the cassette probably account for the price differerence.

I can't! ;-( not sure about the chroming either, am I being naive in thinking it might be
stainless steel?

"tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Both have combinations of letters and numbers depending on number of teeth, but each combination
on the HG70 is prefixed by a capital E - this does not appear on my HG50. Both my cassettes are
7-speed.

Ignore this last bit - a visit to Sheldon's site suggests that this prefix denotes the particular
combination of sprockets on the cassette rather than anything else.

tony R.

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"tony R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<LJk0c.5067 These factors,

Quoted message said:

along with the ability to dismantle the cassette probably account for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

price differerence.

I can't! ;-( not sure about the chroming either, am I being naive in thinking it might be
stainless steel?

The finishes on the two cassettes I have are very different. The HG50 is very shiny and
reflective. The HG70 is slightly duller with a sort of textured look to it - I'd assumed this was
down to the chroming.

tony R.