Is it Illegal to keep my Bike Carrier Attached to the car

Bazza said:

I have an old car which I use to get my bike to bike tracks, and trails.

Today I fitted a bike carrier to the towbar. My question is, is it illegal to leave it on the car
all the time, as

AFAIRI, Someone posted in the last few months that they were fined in Vic for having an empty bike
carrier on their car. Thie soln was to always keep a kids bike mounted in the carrier. You can
pick one of these up easily around the streets on clean up days. But I don't know if that applies
to all states.

Bazza said:

I have an old car which I use to get my bike to bike tracks, and trails.

Today I fitted a bike carrier to the towbar. My question is, is it illegal to leave it on the car
all the time, as getting the Towball off each time cheezes me off big time. I have moved the number
plate, so thats not a problem.

But I was wondering if someone walked into it at night or something.

To the best of my knowledge, in Qld you can only leave it on the car while transporting bikes.

---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

"Bazza" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have an old car which I use to get my bike to bike tracks, and trails.

Today I fitted a bike carrier to the towbar. My question is, is it illegal to leave it on the car
all the time, as getting the Towball off each time cheezes me off big time. I have moved the
number plate, so thats not a problem.

Isnt it illegal to even leave the "goose neck" attached??

"Terry Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bazza said:

I have an old car which I use to get my bike to bike tracks, and trails.

Today I fitted a bike carrier to the towbar. My question is, is it illegal to leave it on the
car all the time, as

AFAIRI, Someone posted in the last few months that they were fined in Vic for having an empty bike
carrier on their car. Thie soln was to always keep a kids bike mounted in the carrier. You can
pick one of these up easily around the streets on clean up days. But I don't know if that applies
to all states.

As much as people think laws are there just to irritate people and raise revenue there is a sound
reason why you should only have this thing attached to your car when you are using it. The reason
would be forthcoming if you ask yourself "Why would they invent such a law?"

They allow you to have this contraption with sharp edges and pointy bits attached at sometimes head
height or windscreen height when you require it so that we can have a middle ground. Use a device
when required then remove it when not to reduce the risk. Have a look at your bicycle rack and then
judge how you would feel if someone rear ended you at say 40km'h and had it take the face off or
worse of one of the occupants. Even if it was their fault the penalty is far from fitting the crime
and depending on the angle is no guarentee that the driver would be the one to cop it. I appreciate
it is a pain to remove but their is a reason why laws are put in place.

About three weeks ago near where my parents live, a driver (although speeding in a 50k zone) left
the road and hit a pedestrian fence. A piece of the top rail of the fence went straight through him
and killed him. I know he was speeding but he didnt really diserve to be killed. Its also probably a
one in a million shot but I wouldnt want to be responsible for that.

Peter

"Bazza" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have an old car which I use to get my bike to bike tracks, and trails.

Today I fitted a bike carrier to the towbar. My question is, is it illegal to leave it on the car
all the time, as getting the Towball off each time cheezes me off big time. I have moved the
number plate, so thats not a problem.

But I was wondering if someone walked into it at night or something.

Cheers, Bazz

IMO they are not a very safe way to transport bikes. After a friend lost two bikes off the back of
her Kombi crossing the Nullarbor (the arm broke), we went looking for a new one as she like the
convenience of them.

What we found is that there seemed to be no 'Australian Standard' to building these things (has this
changed?) The one she had wasn't a real cheapie, but there seemed to be no 'engineering' in the
thing - it looked beefy but the welds were [censored] (which wasn't apparent until you looked at the
inside of the welds after it snapped.

And yes they are illigal to have them mounted on a car all the time.

Dave

John Doe wrote:

....snip....

Quoted message said:

About three weeks ago near where my parents live, a driver (although speeding in a 50k zone) left
the road and hit a pedestrian fence. A piece of the top rail of the fence went straight through
him and killed him. I know he was speeding but he didnt really diserve to be killed. Its also
probably a one in a million shot but I wouldnt want to be responsible for that.

Okay, I am totally lost here.
1) wtf does a speeding motorist have to do with a bicycle rack?
2) The message is simple - speed kills - and in this case the right person was killed - the speeding
motorist. Our roads are now safer.

Quoted message said:

As much as people think laws are there just to irritate people and raise revenue there is a sound
reason why you should only have this thing attached to your car when you are using it.

What about folding designs like the Thule spare wheel rack? Presumably also illegal without a bike
on it, but there is then little logic. Many such rules are poorly thought out and so have unintended
consequences.

Bazza said:

getting the Towball off each time cheezes me off big time.

You need to take the towball off??? You sure? Every bike rack I've seen has a small part bolted onto
the towbar, and the rest comes off to go in the boot.

They are too dangerous to leave attached.

Would it be easier to take the wheels off the bike and put it in the boot?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Mike

BBazza said:

getting the Towball off each time cheezes me off big time.

You need to take the towball off??? You sure? Every bike rack I've seen has a small part bolted onto
the towbar, and the rest comes off to go in the boot.

They are too dangerous to leave attached.

Would it be easier to take the wheels off the bike and put it in the boot? [/B]

i think this is being proposed at the moment to amend the current law/s, not actually applicable at the moment.
Bicycling Victoria (and various BUGs) also support the removal of racks on cars whilst not transporting bikes to further encourage kids to ride (the racks present another foible for johnny/Jane as they are at head height when riding alot of the time or even when walking)

The nremoving the towball is being lobbied by the insurance companies to improve bottom lines as a hge amount of claims involve towballs going thru radiators, etc causing more damage than the car was designed to wear

"Terry Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Doe wrote:

....snip....

Quoted message said:

About three weeks ago near where my parents live, a driver (although speeding in a 50k zone)
left the road and hit a pedestrian fence. A

piece of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the top rail of the fence went straight through him and killed him. I

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he was speeding but he didnt really diserve to be killed. Its also

probably

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a one in a million shot but I wouldnt want to be responsible for that.

Okay, I am totally lost here.
1) wtf does a speeding motorist have to do with a bicycle rack?
2) The message is simple - speed kills - and in this case the right person was killed - the
speeding motorist. Our roads are now safer.

Ok I am totally lost here.

1) The speeding motorist had nothing to do with it. The pointy object did.
2) I refuse to believe that you think it is okay for the punishment of bad judgement behind a wheel
should be death. Our society does not even account rape as a serious enough crime for death or
negligent manslaughter.

What about this scenario. The person driving the car with the bike rack makes a bad judgement (and
this happens at one time or another to EVERY driver - even professional race car drivers will admit
this). Which causes someone to rear end you at 40km's an hour... the bike rack kills them. Sure the
person following you might have not given you the textbook clearance but once again... penalty for
this should not be death.

Funny how cyclists [censored] about bullbars on street cars/4wd that are dangerous to pedestrians and
cyclists but are quite happy to drive around with a sharp pointy thing strapped to their car.

"Glen F" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As much as people think laws are there just to irritate people and raise revenue there is a
sound reason why you should only have this thing attached to your car when you are using it.

What about folding designs like the Thule spare wheel rack? Presumably also illegal without a bike
on it, but there is then little logic. Many such rules are poorly thought out and so have
unintended consequences.

I agree. The law is at times badly thought out. This guy was definitley not talking about one of
these types that do not have the problem of sticking straight out of the back of a car at windscreen
height. I think you could probably get an organisation to lobby for standards to be set so that the
law can be repealed but by far the most common bike rack is the one that sticks straight out.

Peter

Quoted message said:

i think this is being proposed at the moment to amend the current law/s, not actually applicable
at the moment. Bicycling Victoria (and various BUGs) also support the removal of racks on cars
whilst not transporting bikes to further encourage kids to ride (the racks present another foible
for johnny/Jane as they are at head height when riding alot of the time or even when walking)

The nremoving the towball is being lobbied by the insurance companies to improve bottom lines as a
hge amount of claims involve towballs going thru radiators, etc causing more damage than the car
was designed to wear

Not to mention the shin damage you cop if you happen to be a tall bloke. I dont look at my feet
while I am walking and occasionally bang... goes the shin on a tow bar. I can see why the insurance
companies are annoyed with tow bars. You see some good ones though that just slide straight out.

Peter

flyingdutch wrote:

...snip....

Quoted message said:

The nremoving the towball is being lobbied by the insurance companies to improve bottom lines as a
hge amount of claims involve towballs going thru radiators, etc causing more damage than the car
was designed to wear

As if taking the ball off is going to make any difference. There is still the gooseneck that
actually punctures the radiator first. The radiator is just as stuffed in any case.

John Doe wrote:

...snip.....

Quoted message said:

What about this scenario. The person driving the car with the bike rack makes a bad judgement (and
this happens at one time or another to EVERY driver - even professional race car drivers will
admit this). Which causes someone to rear end you at 40km's an hour... the bike rack kills them.
Sure the person following you might have not given you the textbook clearance but once again...
penalty for this should not be death.

ROFL. You really don't get it do you. In both your examples, the person who crashes is at fault.
Speeding is defined as going too fast for the conditions. They were obviously going too fast.

It is that old story. Make something fool proof and only a fool will use
it. All you are doing is allowing more fools to survive and breed.

Quoted message said:

Funny how cyclists [censored] about bullbars on street cars/4wd that are dangerous to pedestrians and
cyclists but are quite happy to drive around with a sharp pointy thing strapped to their car.

I have finally worked out your problem. You must walk around backwards and drive your car
the same way.

The problem with bull bars is that they are on the front and motorists are not held culpable for the
damage they do. I am yet to see a bicycle rack on the front of a car. (Bus yes, car no).

"Terry Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Doe wrote:

...snip.....

Quoted message said:

What about this scenario. The person driving the car with the bike rack makes a bad judgement
(and this happens at one time or another to EVERY driver - even professional race car drivers
will admit this). Which

causes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

someone to rear end you at 40km's an hour... the bike rack kills them.

Sure

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the person following you might have not given you the textbook clearance

but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

once again... penalty for this should not be death.

ROFL. You really don't get it do you. In both your examples, the person who crashes is at fault.
Speeding is defined as going too fast for the conditions. They were obviously going too fast.

It is that old story. Make something fool proof and only a fool will use
it. All you are doing is allowing more fools to survive and breed.

There is no reason for people to die due to this. Everyone makes mistakes. I bet you have made a
mistake from time to time in your life but not regard yourself a fool. Turning on the radio. Anytime
you take your eyes off the road it is a mistake that could be costly.

Why do think things like Airbags were invented? ABS Breaks? Crumple zones? Seat Belts? Not for fools
so that they continue to propogate but because humans make mistakes at times. There are drivers out
there that are not including me. I have made many mistakes driving a car. Changed radio stations. I
am a bit older and wiser now but during the peak "fool" years of 17 through 30 there are many
mistakes to be made due to lack of experience.

You are too focussed on the driver of the offending vehicle at any rate. I have been a passenger in
a car with bad and speeding drivers. In any one of those scenarios it is possible for an innocent
passenger to be hurt. It takes a big man to be able to tell his friends or even strangers to slow
down to match the conditions of the road. I have to admit that I have been uncomfortable at times
when a passenger in a car. The vehicle may have been doing the limit or less but the road was wet
and he was going to fast.

Quoted message said:

I have finally worked out your problem. You must walk around backwards and drive your car the
same way.

Well yes you are right. There is occasions for me to have to use the reverse gear on my car. In fact
I have to reverse out of my driveway also in shopping centre car pars and the like. There in itself
you have another scenario where the person with the bike rack maybe at fault for maming or killing
another faultless person. I have seen people drive WAY too fast in reverse down a stretch of road.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Funny how cyclists [censored] about bullbars on street cars/4wd that are dangerous to pedestrians and
cyclists but are quite happy to drive

around

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with a sharp pointy thing strapped to their car.

The problem with bull bars is that they are on the front and motorists are not held culpable for
the damage they do. I am yet to see a bicycle rack on the front of a car. (Bus yes, car no).

Yes some buses do have front racks. I have worked a fair bit in the US, and Europe and found that
they are quite common in some parts. The racks are the folding type that fold in behind the front
crash bar. The drivers always fold them up when not in use. Obviously it is illegal for them to
drive with them down without a bike. I have never seen a bus with a rack in Australia although I
have been told they have been trialled here and there. Are these racks driven while empty? Or are
they retracted or maybe somehow some other way of protecting occupants of other vehicles from damage
in collisions.

I think the only place where we have disagreement here is that you believe people should pay any
price as luck may have it for making a mistake. I hope you are not as hard on your children if you
have them.

regards Peter

Yes in Victoria, even when it's parked, if the rack is empty.

They are especially dangerous when empty as kids in particular may walk or run into them and be
hit in the face, eye etc. At least when the bike is attached there is more to notice and spread
the impact.

Bazza wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have an old car which I use to get my bike to bike tracks, and trails.

Today I fitted a bike carrier to the towbar. My question is, is it illegal to leave it on the car
all the time, as getting the Towball off each time cheezes me off big time. I have moved the number
plate, so thats not a problem.

But I was wondering if someone walked into it at night or something.

Cheers, Bazz

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

John Doe wrote:

...snip.....

Quoted message said:

What about this scenario. The person driving the car with the bike rack makes a bad judgement
(and this happens at one time or another to EVERY driver - even professional race car drivers
will admit this). Which causes someone to rear end you at 40km's an hour... the bike rack kills
them. Sure the person following you might have not given you the textbook clearance but once
again... penalty for this should not be death.

ROFL. You really don't get it do you. In both your examples, the person who crashes is at fault.
Speeding is defined as going too fast for the conditions. They were obviously going too fast.

Well, I'll type more slowly for you.

Quoted message said:

It is that old story. Make something fool proof and only a fool will use
it. All you are doing is allowing more fools to survive and breed.

Start worrying, fool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Funny how cyclists [censored] about bullbars on street cars/4wd that are dangerous to pedestrians and
cyclists but are quite happy to drive around with a sharp pointy thing strapped to their car.

I have finally worked out your problem. You must walk around backwards and drive your car the
same way.

Are you walking round on your hands, thinking and talking with you [censored]?

Quoted message said:

The problem with bull bars is that they are on the front and motorists are not held culpable for
the damage they do. I am yet to see a bicycle rack on the front of a car. (Bus yes, car no).

Walk into a towbar or, worse still, a bike rack on a parked car and see how you like that. Okay, so
you should be watching where you're going but what's the point in making smoother cars "safer" for
hitting pedestrians and cyclists if we're going to stick iron bars and sharp steel plates (at eye
level) on them.

--
Mark Lee

young terrence certainly does have a rather colourful outlook on life!

bad hair day, perhaps?

:-)

[email hidden] wrote:

...snip.....

Quoted message said:

Walk into a towbar or, worse still, a bike rack on a parked car and see how you like that. Okay,
so you should be watching where you're going but what's the point in making smoother cars "safer"
for hitting pedestrians and cyclists if we're going to stick iron bars and sharp steel plates (at
eye level) on them.

Again, you are confusing a car driving into someone, with someone walking into a towbar.

If you want to stop people walking into towbar, you are going to have to make them totally
illegal. This is feasible as people will then stop buying useless cars and buy a ute, van or
something similar.