hypothetical sheep situation

"simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a veggie.
You are out walking in the hills, miles from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in
the mud is a

sheep,

Quoted message said:

it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There are gouge marks in
the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is nothing to see except
the close friend you

have

Quoted message said:

been walking with, hills and a few very large stones near the sheep. What, if anything do you do?

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in my mind years later. I
wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially people in the category I
referred to above.

not many people carry mint sauce around with them while walking

"simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a veggie.
You are out walking in the hills, miles from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in
the mud is a

sheep,

Quoted message said:

it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There are gouge marks in
the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is nothing to see except
the close friend you

have

Quoted message said:

been walking with, hills and a few very large stones near the sheep. What, if anything do you do?

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in my mind years later. I
wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially people in the category I
referred to above.

Now I know what I would have done, as I've done it myself when I came across a sheep that had had a
bad fall (and yes there was a pile of large rocks near by too)....

However on telling a local ranger, whilst understanding my actions, he said I should have left the
sheep alone - as it wasn't mine and to avoid any chance of possible litigation from the sheep's
owner - and that was in the mid-90's!

On a different occasion though, myself and a friend have wrestled with a sheep to get it out of a
fence that it had itself badly caught up in (not very bright) and then left it to get on with it
once we freed it. I think by the end of it we were in a worse state than the sheep!

A.

--------
Alastair Ross

email: alastair "at" hillwalking.org.uk web: hillwalking.org.ukhillwalking.org.ukOpen ↗ - for hillwalking and
books web: eat-the-chef.comeat-the-chef.comOpen ↗ - for restaurants and wine

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a veggie.

And the dietary habit is important because...? If I *knew* the sheep was doomed I might try to put
it down, but because I don't have the relevant knowledge or skill to do that I'd prefer to try to
get it back on its feet. If I couldn't do that then I'd leave it and let nature take its course.
It's not necessarily what I'd *want* to do, but since I lack the knowledge that would enable me to
make an informed decision that is what I would do.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Quoted message said:

"simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a veggie.
You are out walking in the hills, miles from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in
the mud is a

sheep,

Quoted message said:

it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There are gouge marks in
the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is nothing to see except
the close friend you

have

Quoted message said:

been walking with, hills and a few very large stones near the sheep. What, if anything do you do?

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in my mind years later. I
wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially people in the category I
referred to above.

I remember a few years ago coming across a ewe stuck up to it's belly in some boggy ground in the
Blake Fell - Burnbank Fell area. I had a short length of rope for the dog and managed to pull it
free after an hell of a struggle. It lay there for about 15 minutes during which time I thought it
was going to die then suddenly sprang to it's bloody feet and ran back into the bog to become stuck
again. After another struggle I got it out and this time pulled the bugger well away. Needless to
say I s**t up and spent quite a while washing off on the banks of Loweswater. Dave All Wainwrights
completed 74 Walks......763 miles......approx 200,000' of ascent to complete. At Heysham looking
across Morecambe Bay to the Cumbrian Fells

"simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a veggie.
You are out walking in the hills, miles from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in
the mud is a

sheep,

Quoted message said:

it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There are gouge marks in
the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is nothing to see except
the close friend you

have

Quoted message said:

been walking with, hills and a few very large stones near the sheep. What, if anything do you do?

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in my mind years later. I
wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially people in the category I
referred to above.

Don't hang around after it snuffs it. They blow up and explode worse than any stink imaginable!

simon said:

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in my mind years later. I
wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially people in the category I
referred to above.

This situation is more common than we thought - we have rescued several sheep, including one last
year on Kisdon stuck in a foul anaerobic bog. With a struggle we heaved her out by the wool on her
back (you shouldn't use the horns) and pulled her well away. She couldn't stand up but started
nibbling the grass right away, and we couldn't predict whether she would survive or not. Sheep are
hardy animals and we could only leave her fate to nature. It might have been different if she was
obviously and very severely injured, but even then I'm not sure we could have gone through with it.

Alastair Ross <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a
veggie. You are out walking in the hills,

miles

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in the mud is a

sheep,

Quoted message said:

it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There are gouge marks in
the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is nothing to see except
the close friend you

have

Quoted message said:

been walking with, hills and a few very large stones near the sheep.

What,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if anything do you do?

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mind years later. I wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially
people in the category I referred to above.

Now I know what I would have done, as I've done it myself when I came

across

Quoted message said:

a sheep that had had a bad fall (and yes there was a pile of large rocks near by too)....

However on telling a local ranger, whilst understanding my actions, he

said

Quoted message said:

I should have left the sheep alone - as it wasn't mine and to avoid any chance of possible
litigation from the sheep's owner - and that was in the mid-90's!

On a different occasion though, myself and a friend have wrestled with a sheep to get it out of a
fence that it had itself badly caught up in (not very bright) and then left it to get on with it
once we freed it. I think

by

Quoted message said:

the end of it we were in a worse state than the sheep!

A.

--------
Alastair Ross

email: alastair "at" hillwalking.org.uk web: hillwalking.org.ukhillwalking.org.ukOpen ↗ - for hillwalking and
books web: eat-the-chef.comeat-the-chef.comOpen ↗ - for restaurants and wine

I suppose that nowadays, we all have mobile phones so a call to the police or the RSPCA will solicit
an immediate response and the poor dying sheep will be rapidly put out of its misery by the farmer
with his shotgun (not really...). I suppose the litigation angle is a theoretical one that could
become a real issue, but its a situation where a call from a mobile phone to the right place might
put the legal problems on the sheep owner, as I imagine he would have to act promptly to put the
animal out of it's misery. I wonder if anyone has ever used a mobile to make a call over a sick
sheep wandering on the hills, transcript would make interesting reading. When my friend and carried
out our moral obligations we had to scarper, as over the horizon we saw a large group of walkers
coming in our direction.

"simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a veggie.
You are out walking in the hills, miles from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in
the mud is a

sheep,

Quoted message said:

it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There are gouge marks in
the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is nothing to see except
the close friend you

have

Quoted message said:

been walking with, hills and a few very large stones near the sheep. What, if anything do you do?

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in my mind years later. I
wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially people in the category I
referred to above.

A pal of mine who shall remain nameless felt obliged to rescue a sheep he found that had become crag
fast. It felt obliged to leap to it's doom. Death before dishonour was a popular phrase for a while
:-)) Cheers Graham

Fran <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a
veggie.

And the dietary habit is important because...? If I *knew* the sheep was doomed I might try to put
it down, but because I don't have the relevant knowledge or skill to do that I'd prefer to try to
get it back on its feet. If I couldn't do that then I'd leave it and let nature take its course.
It's not necessarily what I'd *want* to do, but since I lack the knowledge that would enable me to
make an informed decision that is what I would do.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

You can never know for sure if it will die, but if you can see that it's scraped a big hole in the
ground, it's not moved any distance, it's eyes don't look good, how much more do you need to know.
As for the "skill", it does'nt need a lot when the animal is not moving a lot and the stones are
almost too big to pick up. I concluded that in this instance the animal was dying and that "nature"
would be my actions rather than some crow pecking the animals eyes out.

I know a lot of vegetarians and there is no way any of them would ever have killed the animal. Not a
chance. On the other hand most of the meat eaters I know have seen animals killed so for these
people the question of wether to kill the animal or not is simplified, their involvement in the
death of the animal is not such a big deal.

Fran <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a
veggie.

And the dietary habit is important because...? If I *knew* the sheep was doomed I might try to put
it down, but because I don't have the relevant knowledge or skill to do that I'd prefer to try to
get it back on its feet. If I couldn't do that then I'd leave it and let nature take its course.
It's not necessarily what I'd *want* to do, but since I lack the knowledge that would enable me to
make an informed decision that is what I would do.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

You can never know for sure if it will die, but if you can see that it's scraped a big hole in the
ground, it's not moved any distance, it's eyes don't look good, how much more do you need to know.
As for the "skill", it does'nt need a lot when the animal is not moving a lot and the stones are
almost too big to pick up. I concluded that in this instance the animal was dying and that "nature"
would be my actions rather than some crow pecking the animals eyes out.

I know a lot of vegetarians and there is no way any of them would ever have killed the animal. Not a
chance. On the other hand most of the meat eaters I know have seen animals killed so for these
people the question of wether to kill the animal or not is simplified, their involvement in the
death of the animal is not such a big deal.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

I know a lot of vegetarians and there is no way any of them would ever have killed the animal. Not
a chance.

Really? At least one vegetarian of my acquaintance trained as a vet. Oh, and just in case it makes a
difference, I wouldn't eat meat or fish unless I was in truly *desperate* need of food.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Once after being rained off the crags in Chew Valley we came across a sheep stuck in the spillway, a
gritstone trough nearly 3,m deep. We got her out, but it helped that we were confident in our
abilities to climb out of the trap ourselves and were both experienced stock handlers. Cornered the
beast, too legs each and heave.

Not a word of thanks, slippy work.

I have come across a fair few coupit ewes , sometimes stopping the car and hopping into the field to
right them.

Seriously injured beasts - sadly I have seen this as well, informed shepherd.

Richard Webb

"simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a veggie.
You are out walking in the hills, miles from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in
the mud is a sheep, it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There
are gouge marks in the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is
nothing to see except the close friend you have been walking with, hills and a few very large
stones near the sheep. What, if anything do you do?

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in my mind years later. I
wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially people in the category I
referred to above.

Knowing me, nothing. Or perhaps I would have noted the location and passed the problem on to the
farmer on my return.

--
Adrian

In article <[email hidden]>,

Alastair Ross said:

On a different occasion though, myself and a friend have wrestled with a sheep to get it out of a
fence that it had itself badly caught up in (not very bright) and then left it to get on with it
once we freed it. I think by the end of it we were in a worse state than the sheep!

Some of those fences are really nasty if you have horns to get caught. I extracted a sheep thus
entangled just a few weeks before the F&M fiasco closed our moors. It was seriously hard work, but
we were both fine afterwards.

--
Nick Kew

simon <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a veggie.
You are out walking in the hills, miles from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in
the mud is a

sheep,

Quoted message said:

it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There are gouge marks in
the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is nothing to see except
the close friend you

have

Quoted message said:

been walking with, hills and a few very large stones near the sheep. What, if anything do you do?

Adrian Tupper <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a
veggie. You are out walking in the hills, miles from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of
you, in the mud is a sheep, it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or
two. There are gouge marks in the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you
there is nothing to see except the close friend you have been walking with, hills and a few very
large stones near the sheep. What, if anything do you do?

I remember what I did and I don't find it disturbing, but it sticks in my mind years later. I
wondered how most people would have dealt with the situation, especially people in the category
I referred to above.

Knowing me, nothing. Or perhaps I would have noted the location and passed the problem on to the
farmer on my return.

--
Adrian

Location: somewhere in the Brecon Beacons where all the buildings that look like farms are likly to
be empty or to have been converted to B&b's. Lots of people these days go out on the hills with GPS
and mobile phones. Is it the done thing to use this technology to call the police? RSPCA? a vet?
fire brigade? mountain rescue? Many people in a city would not hesitate to involve the authorities
when a cat gets stuck up a tree, I'm sure a sick sheep in pain would prompt many people to make all
sorts of emergency calls.

"Stuart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

simon <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A possible scenario. You are a town dweller, never lived in the countryside, maybe even a
veggie. You are out walking in the hills,

miles

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from any human habitation. Suddenly, in front of you, in the mud is a

sheep,

Quoted message said:

it's very much alive but looks like it will die, maybe in a day or two. There are gouge marks in
the ground where it's feet have been kicking. Looking around you there is nothing to see except
the close friend you

have

Quoted message said:

been walking with, hills and a few very large stones near the sheep.

What,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if anything do you do?

Quoted message said:

can I have seconds 😉

simon wrote

Quoted message said:

What, if anything do you do?

I have come across this a couple of times and I have reported it to the nearest farm. Other than
once feeling that I had stumbled into some Cthulu-esque otherworld it was well received. Even if it
wasn't that farmers sheep they usually have a good idea whose it is. Most farmers aren't a bad bunch
really, especially when you're trying to help them.

Chris

"Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

I know a lot of vegetarians and there is no way any of them would ever

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

killed the animal. Not a chance.

Really? At least one vegetarian of my acquaintance trained as a vet. Oh, and just in case it makes
a difference, I wouldn't eat meat or fish unless I was in truly *desperate* need of food.
--
Fran

That's understandable Fran, I'm the same with with veg.

KRO